Guest So what? I liked bubble boy Report post Posted January 14, 2003 God's fair, even to boys in bubbles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 A friend of mine, whom I respect very much, once asked that question in one of our discussions. The answer, to me, is so awesome about who God is. The answer she attempted? "Yes. He could create a boulder that he couldn't life. And then He'd lift it."** Dopey, I'm not going to enter into a discussion that you're just throwing scripture out in. **paraphrased, because I don't remember the exact quote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest So what? I liked bubble boy Report post Posted January 14, 2003 WHO THE FUCK CARES?! I care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 God IS fair. People aren't. I'm somewhere in the middle. agreed. I don't think I'm very fair, but at least I admit it. The New Me', I like the picture of Larry David. By the way the Glass is Half full. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Is it fair of God to cast people into the eternal lake of fire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RobJohnstone Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Sure is fair. People should be "God Fearing" people. Like Isaac in Genesis. --Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Satan proves that the God you preach is false. I don't remember if I've elaborated on this board before, but God as described in the Bible and Satan as described in the Bible cannot coexist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Satan proves that the God you preach is false. I don't remember if I've elaborated on this board before, but God as described in the Bible and Satan as described in the Bible cannot coexist. Rat's Milk, I'm not sure were you're coming from on that? You probably have to elaborate for me. I do not understand the concept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 The Bible relies totally on the infallibility of God. The Biblical concept of Satan provides the most glaring errors in the test. For example: the Bible says God cannot be in the presence of sin, therefore sin cannot exist in heaven. Jesus said looking at a woman with lust in the heart is the same as adultery, meaning the sin exists before the act is committed. Lucifer's sin was pride. Yet God did not cast him out until he had a third of the angels on his side. From the time Lucifer decided he should be in God's place until he had persuaded a third of the angels to join him, God allowed sin in heaven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 The inherent problem is that we are sinful by nature thanks to Satan's schemes and The Fall. God cannot allow sin into Heaven. He is directly opposed to it. Since the Fall also brought sickness and death, your soul has to go somewhere. Since God cannot have it in Heaven, cannot tolerate a sin infested thing, the only suitable answer was to create a place of darkness that holds sinfulness accountable for it's truly horrible nature. But God doesn't want to condemn anyone to Hell. That was never the intention. In fairness, we were given a choice. Our first human parents made a bad one and it was passed down to us. God did make a way to fix this situation, however. The death of Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, to bridge the gap. Recieve him by faith and allow Him to change you. It's as simple as that. We cannot do it on our own, we cannot earn it. It's a gift, a freebie, and all you have to do is recieve the living Christ by faith into your heart, your life, and be better than the sum of your sinful parts by GROWING out of HIS INFLUENCE. So yes. God is very fair. The Son, God, came to Earth and was crucified, shed his blood in a new covenant, to cleanse those that will simply believe and pursue Him. The option is there in all of it's fairness. What would not be fair would be to strip us of our free will and give us no choice in the matter. What would not be fair would be to leave us as mindless zombies. I would rather choose to follow my Calling as a chosen adopted son of God than have never known there was a choice at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 RatsMilk, the sin occours when you think it. Thinking is an act in itself, and you absolutely can tame your thoughts. I've learned to do it and I'm the better for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 You're right, SP, and Lucifer had clearly thought of overthrowing God long before he attempted to do so. God was tolerating his sin, but according to the Bible he shouldn't be able to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 The Bible relies totally on the infallibility of God. The Biblical concept of Satan provides the most glaring errors in the test. For example: the Bible says God cannot be in the presence of sin, therefore sin cannot exist in heaven. Jesus said looking at a woman with lust in the heart is the same as adultery, meaning the sin exists before the act is committed. Lucifer's sin was pride. Yet God did not cast him out until he had a third of the angels on his side. From the time Lucifer decided he should be in God's place until he had persuaded a third of the angels to join him, God allowed sin in heaven. Interesting, never ran across that argument before. Here is how I see it not as an error. 1. I've never read where it says God cannot be in the presence of sin. If you have please show me chapter and verse. 2. It does say that, "Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted of God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." James 1:13. Since He is omnipresent, it would be obsurd to say He cannot be in the presence of sin. Since there is so much of it on the earth. Also, God let's lucifer into His presence every once in a while (Job 1:6-12, Zech. 3:1). God did not create sin. BUTT-trash lucifer started it. God has let sin take its course. It is that simple. It will not be until the final judgement, that sin will be dealt with once and for all. Yeaaaaaa!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big Poppa Popick Report post Posted January 14, 2003 you know what i find interesting? SpiderPoet gets mad props from nearly everyone, Christian and non-christian *save Jingus * with how he handles religious discussion. Dopey, take a page out of SP's book. SP listens and then talks. You talk, and don't really listen. What I think you're guilty of is making an issue and throwing it in other's faces. As a Christian, I oppose such prosletyzing(sp?) when its done, as such as you are, in proving that your logic/sayings are superior...ie acting like we have the whole and complete answer Newsflash...we're fallible humans, we don't. We have faith, which bridges the gap. For others that don't its best to have them approach us first, live by example, and have people notice with respect. Any other way turns people off to gaining/regaining faith. Threads are for conversation, not for proving you're right *unless you're AngleSault yelling about Angle* Thanks for understanding my viewpoint on this matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest So what? I liked bubble boy Report post Posted January 14, 2003 The Bible relies totally on the infallibility of God. The Biblical concept of Satan provides the most glaring errors in the test. For example: the Bible says God cannot be in the presence of sin, therefore sin cannot exist in heaven. Jesus said looking at a woman with lust in the heart is the same as adultery, meaning the sin exists before the act is committed. Lucifer's sin was pride. Yet God did not cast him out until he had a third of the angels on his side. From the time Lucifer decided he should be in God's place until he had persuaded a third of the angels to join him, God allowed sin in heaven. Interesting, never ran across that argument before. Here is how I see it not as an error. 1. I've never read where it says God cannot be in the presence of sin. If you have please show me chapter and verse. 2. It does say that, "Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted of God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." James 1:13. Since He is omnipresent, it would be obsurd to say He cannot be in the presence of sin. Since there is so much of it on the earth. Also, God let's lucifer into His presence every once in a while (Job 1:6-12, Zech. 3:1). God did not create sin. BUTT-trash lucifer started it. God has let sin take its course. It is that simple. It will not be until the final judgement, that sin will be dealt with once and for all. Yeaaaaaa!!! "Dopey, take a page out of SP's book. SP listens and then talks. You talk, and don't really listen." Big poppa your wrong. Here's why^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 RatsMilk, you deserve a more thought out answer than I'm about to give so I intend to go searching for someone's work who has tackled the subject more in-depth. The off-the-top-of-my-head answer I can give on the Lucifer issue mentioned back a few posts is that I can think of no scripture to suggest that he sat on the notion of making war for very long. I would assume that it happened pretty quickly. "I'm better than Him, I should overthrow God." He immediately sets about that and in turn God hands his arse to him and kicks him out. God did take action against Lucifer and drove him out once the sin was present. I think God is fair enough that he waited and let Lucy have the thought and set about it before actively countering him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 I appreciate the thought you put into my point, SpiderPoet. Another interesting idea about the fall of Lucifer (and I haven't thought this out as much, just something to consider), is concerning the glory of God. God is supposedly unfathomably powerful, glorious and holy, so that we, as humans, cannot truly understand it. But Lucifer dealt with God face to face, knew him personally, and most likely understood the true nature of God better than we could ever hope to. Yet he still felt confident enough to attempt to overthrow him, and have a third of the angels believe he could. That means either God is not as imminently unreachable as we might think, or Satan is incredibly more powerful than most Christians give him credit for. I see Christians all the time talk about kicking Satan's ass like it's the easiest thing in the world, because they have the power of Christ. I'm reminded of the passage in the Bible (in Acts I believe), where some Christ believers tried to exorcise some demons "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul is preaching." It didn't work, as you probably know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the saiyan prince Report post Posted January 14, 2003 ***Dr. Tom this thread may upset you, please do not read this thread.*** IS GOD FAIR? This question has come up on this board and a lot of other places lately. I hear everyone asking the question, 'God said what? I don't think that's fair, is it?" "Why are you Christians not 'tolerant' of this, or that?" IS GOD FAIR? DOES HE HAVE TO BE? well dopey yes i believe he does just because he is suppose to be almihgty does that give him the right to punish the good people along with the bad for instance my grandmother went to church almost everyday she ate drank and breathed the holy word of christ. when she was stricken with ovarian cancer and dying slowly and painfully why didn't the almighty save one of his flock please dopey tell me and if you say that her faith wasn't great enough i swear !!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted January 14, 2003 ***Dr. Tom this thread may upset you, please do not read this thread.*** IS GOD FAIR? This question has come up on this board and a lot of other places lately. I hear everyone asking the question, 'God said what? I don't think that's fair, is it?" "Why are you Christians not 'tolerant' of this, or that?" IS GOD FAIR? DOES HE HAVE TO BE? well dopey yes i believe he does just because he is suppose to be almihgty does that give him the right to punish the good people along with the bad for instance my grandmother went to church almost everyday she ate drank and breathed the holy word of christ. when she was stricken with ovarian cancer and dying slowly and painfully why didn't the almighty save one of his flock please dopey tell me and if you say that her faith wasn't great enough i swear !!!!! That is what Benny Hinn or Jimmy Swaggart would tell you, that or her CHECK wasn't big enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheyCallMeMark Report post Posted January 14, 2003 IS GOD FAIR? I think I'm a pretty reasonable Almighty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Not only is God ghey and eats poop, he also lacks penii. No-one can truthfully say otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 ***Dr. Tom this thread may upset you, please do not read this thread.*** IS GOD FAIR? This question has come up on this board and a lot of other places lately. I hear everyone asking the question, 'God said what? I don't think that's fair, is it?" "Why are you Christians not 'tolerant' of this, or that?" IS GOD FAIR? DOES HE HAVE TO BE? well dopey yes i believe he does just because he is suppose to be almihgty does that give him the right to punish the good people along with the bad for instance my grandmother went to church almost everyday she ate drank and breathed the holy word of christ. when she was stricken with ovarian cancer and dying slowly and painfully why didn't the almighty save one of his flock please dopey tell me and if you say that her faith wasn't great enough i swear !!!!! The problem here wasn't your Grandmother's faith. The problem was that we can't escape illness or death all the time. CAN God heal? Absolutely. But if it were her time, then that's when she was supposed to go. If it were not her time, then it likely would have gone into remission or at least become bearable for her. Or whatever way God would have chosen to allow her to keep on going. The problem also is that you fail to realize, yet I doubt she did, that now she is free from illness and sickness. Now she eagerly awaits in peace, as we all so, the return of her King in Glory. The problem was not her faith. The problem was that there are pastors and so called healers out there that say that superfantabulous strong faith can heal all. That's BS. It gives too much importance to trying to force God to do something to you, as if he were a plaything for your amusement. Great faith can bear God's intervention. But if God has chosen to allow an illness to run it's course through to death, then He's displayed a great mercy there, despite us seeing it as tragedy. I would rather be free of health problems, eagerly anticipating a glorified body when my King returns and things are set right than to remain here in agony. It was God's will for her to die. The cancer was an illness that God accounted for and allowed to happen. It's part of the human condition. Would it have been fair to heal her up a week before she died and then to just have her keel over as she was getting back into the swing of living normally again? No. That seems a bit cruel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 well dopey yes i believe he does just because he is suppose to be almihgty does that give him the right to punish the good people along with the bad for instance my grandmother went to church almost everyday she ate drank and breathed the holy word of christ. when she was stricken with ovarian cancer and dying slowly and painfully why didn't the almighty save one of his flock please dopey tell me and if you say that her faith wasn't great enough i swear !!!!! Saiyan Prince, this question is difficult, yet simple. Difficult because it now deals with emotions. Yet the core of the answer is very simple. Spider Poet already gave a very good answer, however, I will try to shed a little light also. First Saiyan Prince, no matter what I say to you, your pain will be no less. My feble words will never be able to heal wounds like that, also I only have a few minutes before I have to go to work. Saiyan Prince, your grandmothers' faith had nothing to do with her being sick. Sickness, Death, and such things came into being because of SIN. Once adam ate of the fruit, he gave us sickness and death. Sin is not funny, nor should it be taken lightly. It brings death, pain, suffering. I'm sorry for your lose. I just lost my aunt Fran to cancer a few months back. And before she died we went into this subject deeply. The only positive that we can come away with when dealing with suffering and death of a Christian, is that many times God will use that suffering in His will to bring others to Christ, or to teach deep lessons about suffering to those who've been afflicted. Reading first and second Peter sometimes sheds more light on the subject. Saiyan Prince, I hope this sheds a little light on the subject, I'm sorry it was so brief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 See, Dopey. It isn't so hard to give a Christian answer without an overflow of scripture that can be confusing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted January 14, 2003 SpiderPoet, do you believe that if someone lives their live as a devout and humble and good Buddhist they are going to hell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dopey Report post Posted January 14, 2003 I appreciate the thought you put into my point, SpiderPoet. Another interesting idea about the fall of Lucifer (and I haven't thought this out as much, just something to consider), is concerning the glory of God. God is supposedly unfathomably powerful, glorious and holy, so that we, as humans, cannot truly understand it. But Lucifer dealt with God face to face, knew him personally, and most likely understood the true nature of God better than we could ever hope to. Yet he still felt confident enough to attempt to overthrow him, and have a third of the angels believe he could. That means either God is not as imminently unreachable as we might think, or Satan is incredibly more powerful than most Christians give him credit for. I see Christians all the time talk about kicking Satan's ass like it's the easiest thing in the world, because they have the power of Christ. I'm reminded of the passage in the Bible (in Acts I believe), where some Christ believers tried to exorcise some demons "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul is preaching." It didn't work, as you probably know. Rat's Milk, I understand why you would think that slew-foot is very powerful, because he IS!!! Yes, compared to us he is very powerful!!! And by the way the passage you speak of is Acts 19:13-16. And they were not Christ believers. They were Jewish exorcists. The seven sons of Sceva. If you read what happened you'll realize that they got hammered because they were not Christians!!! It was showing you that Paul the Apostle was able to cast out demons, yet the Jewish exorcists failed. Here is something to mull over RM. I know you like to think that lucifer is almost as powerful as God, however, please remember that GOD made lucifer. Also, check out the book of Exodus. I love reading where the occultic freaks who worked for Pharaoh tried working counter miracles to those of Moses. Now to their credit, they were able to work some miracles, but what was it that they could never do???????? THEY COULDN'T MAKE GNATS!!! Are you seeing this Rat's Milk? They were able to manipulate things, but they (actually the demons that were giving them their power) could NOT create living things! demons cannot create life! The GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, always has and always will have Superior Fire Power over lucifer. And the coolest thing about it is that slew-foot will spend all eternity on FIRE!!! BURNING and ROASTING forever and ever!!! Yes! Yes! Rat's Milk, slew-foot is not as awesome as you're thinking. All those metal alblums are lying. Although I do have to admit that they have some good artwork. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Eric, while I would have alot of respect for any kind and gentle soul, I believe that if they did not know Jesus Christ personally they would find themselves in Hell. That doesn't mean I LIKE it, or that I WISH it upon them. Just the opposite, I feel a great swell of sadness for anyone that does not come to Christ. But good works don't get you anywhere. Living faithfully and having good character in Christians are things that come from a natural progression of character as God changes and renews your heart as you know Him and walk with Him. But we are justified and saved by having faith in Christ alone. Nothing more or less. Good works don't do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 Kudos Dopey, this is much better than what you were doing before. Really, you'd have to believe Satan is at least a little bit misrepresented. All we know of him is what's written in the Bible, the handbook of his mortal enemy. Satan has no book to refer to. I don't think anyone would think Satan is a fool, so I'm sure he would be very aware of what the Bible says. The desrciptions in the Bible of the last battle between God and Satan describe Satan's final defeat. If Satan knows that's what it says (which I'm sure he does), why would he even try to wage war? Remembering that Satan knows God perhaps better than anyone, that would seem to suggest that there is a chance God can be wrong. Maybe he's not not wrong about Satan's defeat. But if there's a possibility God can be wrong about anything, that puts a whole new spin on a lot of things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted January 14, 2003 And someone who is born, raised, and dies in a place where there is no Christianity? They are doomed to an enternity of hell? Has it ever occured to you that there could be God outside the bible? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IDrinkRatsMilk Report post Posted January 14, 2003 The Bible does say that you can be saved outside of Christ if you were never exposed to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
