Is God fair?

[Guest Dopey]

"All those who believe in Christ Jesus the Lord, will be with Him forever and ever. Those who do not, will perish in the everlasting lake of fire, prepared for lucifer and his angels."

 

I'd really like to believe that God would have the wisdom to see beyond "Either you're with me or against me" type thinking. I mean, I have a dog, and if that dog disobeys me, I don't set him on fire. The dog might not understand what he did wrong. What you're saying is the equivalent of letting the dog pee on the floor for five years, then decapitating him with an axe.

Samurai, this is a hard concept for many people, including myself. However, once again I must point out that most of our concepts of God are wrong. Between HOLLYWOOD, traditions, other religeous doctrines ect.... Many of us have a wrong concept of God.

I like to call it the 'Dancing Bunny' theology. Somewhere, somehow, we have wound up with this strange concept that God is like some cosmic Dancing Bunny! He's all happy and never frowns. He loves everybody and everything! He never gets mad or spanks anyone. Therefore, we can break all His laws and do whatever we want. Murder, rape, adultry, homosexuality, theft, genocide, ...ect . It doesn't matter!!!

However:

 

"Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face. "

Deuteronomy 7:9-10

 

Leviticus chapter 26, is blessings and retribution. The first 13 verses deal with great blessings, the rest of the chapter deals with retribution:

 

"But if you do not obey Me,... I also will do this to you:

I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. ...

'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins. ...

I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;

and My soul shall abhor you." Levi. 26

 

Samurai, as you can see, the Dancing Bunny does not exist. Check it. The only thing about God's character to ever be put into triplicate form was, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts;" Isaiah 6:3.

God is Holy, and Righteous, and True, and Just.

 

Here's where your analogy falters. Your dog is not bright. Your dog does not understand what he's doing; Adam knew! Let me illustrate.

 

Samurai, Adam was probably 5 times better looking than Brad Pitt!!! Remember, he was absolutly PERFECT!!! No fat! No warts! No scars! Not BALD!!! Perfect height. Perfect weight. Perfect--let's say size. Now place him on a Perfect earth, in a Perfect Garden planted by God Himself!!! Perfect air. Perfect water. Perfect plants for food. Adam has a Perfect brain!!! He names all the animals. EVERYTHING is Perfect!

Then God goes one step further and gives him Eve. A PERFECT WOMAN!!! Perfect Face!!! PERFECT BODY!!! The most beautiful woman ever on earth!!!

---AND SHE'S BUCK NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there is no sin in that!

GOD made all this for Adam and you or I cannot truly ever understand this. Because we cannot behold perfection in our corrupt minds.

Now, Samurai, the only thing that God commands is 'don't eat from this tree'. WOW.

That's really hard!!! <-------NOT!!!

 

God is Love! He also is Holy! He also is the One who made everything, including His laws. Adam knew the command. Adam willfuly rebelled against God. ADAM BECAME A COSMIC TRAITOR!!! HE REBELLED AGAINST THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE!!! ALL WHO SIN ARE COSMIC TRAITORS!!!

 

Samurai, Jesus took the Punishment of His people! HE bore the iniquity of us all.

JESUS CHRIST got His face smashed in for me!!! HE wore a crown of throns in His head for me!!! HE was beaten with a cat-o-nine tales for me!!! HE was Crucified naked and shameful on a cross for me!!!

The GOD of the Universe comes down to earth and becomes man. And His earthly body is killed by the creatures that He made. GOD BECOMES MAN; JESUS. AND WE PUT HIM TO DEATH ON A CROSS!!! WE BEAT HIM BLOODY, STRIP HIM OF EVERYTHING HE OWNS (HIS CLOTHES) AND HANG HIM NAKED ON A CROSS, FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE AND MOCK!!!

 

Yes, God is going to send people to hell.

[Guest NoCalMike]

What you're saying is the equivalent of letting the dog pee on the floor for five years, then decapitating him with an axe.

That line is CLASSIC.....hahahaha. Something just made me laugh out loud-literally when reading the "decapitating him with an axe" part.....

[Guest Dopey]

"And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Luke 3:9

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

"All those who believe in Christ Jesus the Lord, will be with Him forever and ever. Those who do not, will perish in the everlasting lake of fire, prepared for lucifer and his angels."

 

I'd really like to believe that God would have the wisdom to see beyond "Either you're with me or against me" type thinking. I mean, I have a dog, and if that dog disobeys me, I don't set him on fire. The dog might not understand what he did wrong. What you're saying is the equivalent of letting the dog pee on the floor for five years, then decapitating him with an axe.

But if he doesn't have a "Either you're with me/agaisnt me" attitude then it opens a whole can of worms that would pretty much end up in anyone and everyone going to Heaven and would mean it doesn't matter what we do at all in this life.

 

If he started making exceptions then it would not be fair to those who actually tried their hardest.

 

I think he's fair. I think some people on this earth believe everything should revolve around them and that everything is about them to the point that if anything bad happens to them they believe he's unfair.

 

Our definition of "fair" isn't always what is REALLY fair.

[Guest godthedog]

I like to call it the 'Dancing Bunny' theology. Somewhere, somehow, we have wound up with this strange concept that God is like some cosmic Dancing Bunny! He's all happy and never frowns. He loves everybody and everything! He never gets mad or spanks anyone. Therefore, we can break all His laws and do whatever we want. Murder, rape, adultry, homosexuality, theft, genocide, ...ect . It doesn't matter!!!

However:

 

"Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face. "

Deuteronomy 7:9-10

 

Leviticus chapter 26, is blessings and retribution. The first 13 verses deal with great blessings, the rest of the chapter deals with retribution:

 

"But if you do not obey Me,... I also will do this to you:

I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. ...

'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins. ...

I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;

and My soul shall abhor you." Levi. 26

 

Samurai, as you can see, the Dancing Bunny does not exist. Check it. The only thing about God's character to ever be put into triplicate form was, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts;" Isaiah 6:3.

God is Holy, and Righteous, and True, and Just.

 

Here's where your analogy falters. Your dog is not bright. Your dog does not understand what he's doing; Adam knew! Let me illustrate.

 

Samurai, Adam was probably 5 times better looking than Brad Pitt!!! Remember, he was absolutly PERFECT!!! No fat! No warts! No scars! Not BALD!!! Perfect height. Perfect weight. Perfect--let's say size. Now place him on a Perfect earth, in a Perfect Garden planted by God Himself!!! Perfect air. Perfect water. Perfect plants for food. Adam has a Perfect brain!!! He names all the animals. EVERYTHING is Perfect!

Then God goes one step further and gives him Eve. A PERFECT WOMAN!!! Perfect Face!!! PERFECT BODY!!! The most beautiful woman ever on earth!!!

---AND SHE'S BUCK NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there is no sin in that!

GOD made all this for Adam and you or I cannot truly ever understand this. Because we cannot behold perfection in our corrupt minds.

Now, Samurai, the only thing that God commands is 'don't eat from this tree'. WOW.

That's really hard!!! <-------NOT!!!

 

God is Love! He also is Holy! He also is the One who made everything, including His laws. Adam knew the command. Adam willfuly rebelled against God. ADAM BECAME A COSMIC TRAITOR!!! HE REBELLED AGAINST THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE!!! ALL WHO SIN ARE COSMIC TRAITORS!!!

 

Samurai, Jesus took the Punishment of His people! HE bore the iniquity of us all.

JESUS CHRIST got His face smashed in for me!!! HE wore a crown of throns in His head for me!!! HE was beaten with a cat-o-nine tales for me!!! HE was Crucified naked and shameful on a cross for me!!!

The GOD of the Universe comes down to earth and becomes man. And His earthly body is killed by the creatures that He made. GOD BECOMES MAN; JESUS. AND WE PUT HIM TO DEATH ON A CROSS!!! WE BEAT HIM BLOODY, STRIP HIM OF EVERYTHING HE OWNS (HIS CLOTHES) AND HANG HIM NAKED ON A CROSS, FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE AND MOCK!!!

 

Yes, God is going to send people to hell.

actually, several theologians have argued that god IS all-happy and never frowns.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

I never said God was a dancing happy bunny. I said that I hope God can see that people can be confused and ignorant, and can forgive people who aren't able to close their eyes and just run with faith. I've met many, many people, with many, many different faiths, all of them as dead certain that theirs is the true religion, and all others are heathen infested cults worthy of eternal fire and pain. How am I supposed to choose like that? So far, based on the people who follow them, I haven’t seen a religion I’ve wanted to be a part of. You see, Dopey, trees don’t uproot themselves in their efforts to whisper in my ear “Jesus died for you!” Also, I’ve noticed that when I look at my filing cabinet, it too, does not say anything like “Christianity rules!” I’ve heard you say that everything tells you how great God is (even if they weren’t literally telling you this), know what I hear? Silence.

 

Oh, if I truly wanted to, sure, I could see everything as symbols of a higher power. For instance, for a second there I wanted a sandwich, when my cat started to purr. However, this cat is black, and we all know black is the archetypal color for ignorance. So, in other words, by feeding myself with a sandwich, I would in fact be feeding myself with willful ignorance. My cat’s purrs are also an encouragement, so obviously this cat actually wants to keep me ignorant. In other words, this cat is deliberately trying to keep me from knowledge! But what kind of knowledge is he trying to steer me from? Well, he’s keeping my lap warm, which makes me happy, which is a form of joy. He’s keeping me from joy! Which we all know is what you get if you follow God. So this cat is DELIBERATELY steering me from God! That mean….MY CAT IS THE ANTICHRIST!

 

At which point, I decapitate the cat with an axe. (That was for you, NoCal.)

 

Or, I could skip it all, realize I’m intentionally looking for little signs, and see that it’s a freakin’ sandwich.

 

Side note: How do we know Adam was the perfect guy? Maybe he just didn’t know enough to realize he was really ugly.

 

Side Side note: That whole Adam thing is the equivalent of my dog peeing on the floor for five years….so I decapitate the dog, and her puppies, and, while I’m at it, the neighbors dogs.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

I thought I'd weigh in because it's just so cute and perky when religious zealots try to defend their beliefs knowing only what the drinking, womanizing, closet-homosexual heads of their churches tell them.

 

First and foremost, if he exists, God IS indeed fair. He gives every person on earth the exact same capacity to fuck up and damn themself as he gives everyone else. It doesn't get any more fair than that.

 

God is no dancing bunny. That is quite obvious. He's indifferent to us and our lives. It sounds harsh, but it can't be explained any other way. If God were directly concerned with the lives of any group of people, then we'd all get to heaven because he would guide us away from all wrongs and steer us in his 'path of light'. This doesn't happen and thank God it doesn't because life would be utterly fucking pointless if it were so.

 

But seeing as how he removes himself from our lives, I have to believe his admissions process is a wee more in depth than "fire and brimstone" doomsayers can conceive or understand (that is, until a prominent figure in their church tells them of course, or they pervert an explanation out of biblical scripture)There is so much to consider and knowing that none of us can say what is right or wrong in God's eyes makes speculating on how he goes about these rigorous background checks a futile effort.

 

But to address Dopey directly, if one group of people is going to hell, it would be you and your constiuents. If only because, in your dedication to God, you remain hostile and apathetic towards the world and the people he created. You have no respect for anyone who might see things differently from you. Your repect for God's creations is non existent. If you were truly a believer and follower of his than you would adopt a more passive aggressive belief process and not exclude any group of people for their discrepancies with your beliefs. You have a God fetish. It's not so much a belief system as it is a hobby and a way to feel included and nutured. You use your belief to set yourself apart from those who do not believe as you do, which calls the entire validity of your belief into question.

 

You can go to church and quote the Bible, spend day and night translating scripture from the hebrew text directly, but it doesn't make you a spiritual man. It only makes you easily influenced by the repitition of a ritual. You believe because somewhere along the line you were told that it was necessary to believe. You don't worship God, you worship whoever it was that first told you about God. Religion, like beauty, is often only skin deep.

 

I don't claim to be a religious man myself, I believe in God and I don't. But I'm trying to understand before I commit.

 

But this elitist religious bullshit is just sad. Especially since you are utilizing your beliefs and values, the ones instilled in you by the God you claim to love and adore, to get attention on a internet message board.

 

Pretty low my friend...

[Guest HecateRose]

"But to address Dopey directly, if one group of people is going to hell, it would be you and your constiuents. If only because, in your dedication to God, you remain hostile and apathetic towards the world and the people he created. You have no respect for anyone who might see things differently from you. Your repect for God's creations is non existent. If you were truly a believer and follower of his than you would adopt a more passive aggressive belief process and not exclude any group of people for their discrepancies with your beliefs. You have a God fetish. It's not so much a belief system as it is a hobby and a way to feel included and nutured. You use your belief to set yourself apart from those who do not believe as you do, which calls the entire validity of your belief into question."

 

Gamengiri2002, that passage was a thing of beauty, and overflowing with valid points.

 

Dopey, you often charge around this place with a "holier than thou" attitude as though every person who doesn't proclaim to follow the same path as you is some heathen bound for an eternity in a fiery pit. I consider myself to be a fairly religious and spiritual woman, though I am still in the learning process. I have chosen my own path, though be it far from yours, that suits me and my core beliefs. I'll reiterate that I CHOSE it. I was not brought up to believe it, I decided to begin studying it and following its tennants since they already fit the beliefs/ values/ moral I had developed through my life experiences, not because I was told to. Even though I often find your arguements to be wanting, and you incessant quoting of scripture to be the epitomy of blind faith, I do not even remotely believe that since you do not believe what I do that you will be eternally punished. I believe that if you are a good person, who does not harm anyone or any living thing intentionally, then you will be rewarded. If you are a violent, malicious malcontent, then you will get back that attitude that you put into the world, stronger than you sent it out. I'm not suggesting that you are one of the later people, but you often scream ignorance by blindly following a book. The Bible is only a book. It's not the word of God, because it was written by a man. God did not write it, God did not pace an office infront of the Saint of Secretaries dictating word after word, line after line, verse after verse. The Bible is the interpretation of signals/ symbols/ stories by man, not the word of God. It has been alterred and mistranslated. I cannot believe anyone who would follow a book like this, and believe all it has to say, could be anything but a mooncalf.

 

Now, if you tell me that you do not follow all that the Bible says, all of the teachings it bestows on you, than I guess you are going to burn with the rest of us "heathens" (which by the way was derived from the word "hearthen" and actually didn't hold any malicious conotations but wrongly developed one) for not following "God's word" to the letter.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

That's all well and good, and I commend the thought put into the previous two posts, but you're wasting your breath. Dopey's not going to listen. He never will.

[Guest SP-1]

I'm tired of people acting as if true Christians believe in the legalistic viewpoint of Do or Burn, which we don't. The relationship with God is what it's all about. The Bible tells us what we need to know, gives us the goal to strive for. We know we'll never make it here on Earth but we make the effort anyway simply because we aspire to a higher standard than the sum of our sinful parts.

 

The rules and regulations don't get you there. In short, accepting, knowing God in a personal relationship because of what Christ did gets you there. The changes, behavior, the hope, direction, it all starts there. With a relationship.

 

I don't appreciate being grouped in with a bunch of legalism, as I've not done a single thing on this board except explain WHY I live as I do, what drives me to believe in these things and hold them as truth. Not once have I hurtled insults or shoved scripture down anyone's throats. I'm getting tired of people generalizing us Christians based on the most vocal Brimstone Preachers out there.

 

So if anyone out there feels a need to hurl insults at me directly, I expect something better than an argument against being a blind Bible Thumper or some other tripe.

[Guest HecateRose]

SpiderPoet, I do not believe all Christian think the same way, I have known many that were the pinnacle o f great human beings. My post, and (from my understanding) the two above mine were directed straight at Dopey, because Dopey has displayed himself as an overzealous, blind Bible Thumper

[Guest SP-1]

Yeah I know. I'm just trying to avoid any generalizations in the future.

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

I thought I'd weigh in because it's just so cute and perky when religious zealots try to defend their beliefs knowing only what the drinking, womanizing, closet-homosexual heads of their churches tell them.

 

First and foremost, if he exists, God IS indeed fair. He gives every person on earth the exact same capacity to fuck up and damn themself as he gives everyone else. It doesn't get any more fair than that.

 

God is no dancing bunny. That is quite obvious. He's indifferent to us and our lives. It sounds harsh, but it can't be explained any other way. If God were directly concerned with the lives of any group of people, then we'd all get to heaven because he would guide us away from all wrongs and steer us in his 'path of light'. This doesn't happen and thank God it doesn't because life would be utterly fucking pointless if it were so.

 

But seeing as how he removes himself from our lives, I have to believe his admissions process is a wee more in depth than "fire and brimstone" doomsayers can conceive or understand (that is, until a prominent figure in their church tells them of course, or they pervert an explanation out of biblical scripture)There is so much to consider and knowing that none of us can say what is right or wrong in God's eyes makes speculating on how he goes about these rigorous background checks a futile effort.

 

But to address Dopey directly, if one group of people is going to hell, it would be you and your constiuents. If only because, in your dedication to God, you remain hostile and apathetic towards the world and the people he created. You have no respect for anyone who might see things differently from you. Your repect for God's creations is non existent. If you were truly a believer and follower of his than you would adopt a more passive aggressive belief process and not exclude any group of people for their discrepancies with your beliefs. You have a God fetish. It's not so much a belief system as it is a hobby and a way to feel included and nutured. You use your belief to set yourself apart from those who do not believe as you do, which calls the entire validity of your belief into question.

 

You can go to church and quote the Bible, spend day and night translating scripture from the hebrew text directly, but it doesn't make you a spiritual man. It only makes you easily influenced by the repitition of a ritual. You believe because somewhere along the line you were told that it was necessary to believe. You don't worship God, you worship whoever it was that first told you about God. Religion, like beauty, is often only skin deep.

 

I don't claim to be a religious man myself, I believe in God and I don't. But I'm trying to understand before I commit.

 

But this elitist religious bullshit is just sad. Especially since you are utilizing your beliefs and values, the ones instilled in you by the God you claim to love and adore, to get attention on a internet message board.

 

Pretty low my friend...

That's it, your going to burn in HELL

[Guest Dopey]

But to address Dopey directly,

 

 

But this elitist religious bullshit is just sad. Especially since you are utilizing your beliefs and values, the ones instilled in you by the God you claim to love and adore, to get attention on a internet message board.

 

Pretty low my friend...

WOW!!! Now that is some good insulting!

<<--- //\\--->>

Dopey checking his armor after the Scathe of Gamengiri2002's Rapier!!!

 

I'll get back to you soon.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

Spider, I definately meant no offense and I did say that I was addressing Dopey directly.

 

If you took it as I meant "all Christians" I apologize. I meant Dopey and those like him

[Guest SP-1]

I saw that it was addressed directly to Dopey. I wasn't directing that towards anyone specifically. Like I said, that was just to avoid any arguments that may arise against me from anyone.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

My god, bubble boy, you are Dopey's bitch. Why don't you just suck his dick and get it over with.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

That's it, your going to burn in HELL

 

Yeah? And you're ugly.

[Guest HecateRose]

SW?ILBB, I have on thing to say to your comment to Gamengiri2002's post (" That's it, your going to burn in HELL ")

 

Ouch, What a devastatingly witty retort

[Guest Dopey]

Even though I often find your arguements to be wanting, and you incessant quoting of scripture to be the epitomy of blind faith, I do not even remotely believe that since you do not believe what I do that you will be eternally punished. I believe that if you are a good person, who does not harm anyone or any living thing intentionally, then you will be rewarded. If you are a violent, malicious malcontent, then you will get back that attitude that you put into the world, stronger than you sent it out. I'm not suggesting that you are one of the later people, but you often scream ignorance by blindly following a book. The Bible is only a book. It's not the word of God, because it was written by a man. God did not write it, God did not pace an office infront of the Saint of Secretaries dictating word after word, line after line, verse after verse. The Bible is the interpretation of signals/ symbols/ stories by man, not the word of God. It has been alterred and mistranslated. I cannot believe anyone who would follow a book like this, and believe all it has to say, could be anything but a mooncalf.

 

Now, if you tell me that you do not follow all that the Bible says, all of the teachings it bestows on you, than I guess you are going to burn with the rest of us "heathens" (which by the way was derived from the word "hearthen" and actually didn't hold any malicious conotations but wrongly developed one) for not following "God's word" to the letter.

HecateRose, you sound like a very deep person. Filled with a lot of emotion. I will try to answer some of the objections to 'my type' of Christianity, however, since I am a man, it might come across very calculating, and stiff.

I'm at work right now so, it'll take a little time to do a good job.

But I would like to discuss some of your objections.

[Guest NoCalMike]

What does god do about the mentally retarded/handicapped?? If they are so messed up in the brain that they have no idea about right and wrong, would god still punish them for sin??

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

SW?ILBB, I have on thing to say to your comment to Gamengiri2002's post (" That's it, your going to burn in HELL ")

 

Ouch, What a devastatingly witty retort

thanks, rosey

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

My god, bubble boy, you are Dopey's bitch. Why don't you just suck his dick and get it over with.

FREAK!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Dopey]

Even though I often find your arguements to be wanting, and you incessant quoting of scripture to be the epitomy of blind faith,

I'm not suggesting that you are one of the later people, but you often scream ignorance by blindly following a book. The Bible is only a book. It's not the word of God, because it was written by a man. God did not write it, God did not pace an office infront of the Saint of Secretaries dictating word after word, line after line, verse after verse. The Bible is the interpretation of signals/ symbols/ stories by man, not the word of God. It has been alterred and mistranslated. I cannot believe anyone who would follow a book like this, and believe all it has to say, could be anything but a mooncalf.

 

Now, if you tell me that you do not follow all that the Bible says, all of the teachings it bestows on you, than I guess you are going to burn with the rest of us "heathens" (which by the way was derived from the word "hearthen" and actually didn't hold any malicious conotations but wrongly developed one) for not following "God's word" to the letter.

HecateRose, there are 2 points where I see you are having problems with True Christianity.

1.THE WORD OF GOD.

2. THE PROPER VIEW OF SALVATION.

 

I will get to these two points, but first I'd like to let you know that the very fact that I have people hating on me, means that I am representing True Christianity!!!

"DO NOT THINK THAT I CAME TO BRING PEACE ON EARTH. I DID NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD. FOR I HAVE COME TO SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER,..." Matthew 10:34-35

 

"AND YOU WILL BE HATED BY ALL FOR MY NAME'S SAKE." Luke 21:17

 

"YES, AND ALL WHO DESIRE TO LIVE GODLY IN CHRIST JESUS WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION." 2 Timothy 3:12

 

HecateRose, there was a reason all those Christians died as martyrs. They absolutly would not bend! JESUS would not bend!!! God will not bow to our vision, teachings, views, on HIM and HIS plan for mankind. That is why they hated Jesus so much. He dictated!!! He did not ask, beg, plead with people. He commanded, "REPENT, AND BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL." (Mark 1:15).

Nobody likes to be told what to do!!! Nobody!!! That is why TRUE CHRISTIANITY is so offensive!

Most people HATE me because I am teaching TRUE CHRISTIANITY. I am telling people that if you are not Born Again, you will perish. Simple. And every time that message is preached, it will be hated! Because it tells you that you are sinful, dead in spirit, and bound for hell.

"THESE THINGS WE ALSO SPEAK, NOT IN WORDS WHICH MAN'S WISDOM TEACHES BUT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES, COMPARING SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL. BUT THE NATURAL MAN DOES NOT RECEIVE THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, FOR THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS TO HIM; NOR CAN HE KNOW THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED." 1Corinthians 2:13-14

 

Jesus Christ is called the Rock of Offense.

 

"THEREFORE, TO YOU WHO BELIEVE, HE IS PRECIOUS; BUT TO THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT,

"THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED

HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE,"

AND

"A STONE OF STUMBLING

AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE."

THEY STUMBLE, BEING DISOBEDIENT TO THE WORD,..." 1 Peter 2:7-8

 

I do not relish being hated. Jesus did not wish to be hated. However, He knew He was going to be hated, yet He still came down and died for His elect!!! Awesome!!!

 

I had to get this out of the way first. Those who truly follow CHRIST, know that they will be hated. It just comes with being chosen from the foundation of the world.

 

Hate is a confirmation, to the Christian, that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing.

 

Now we can proceed to the 2 points.

[Guest NoCalMike]

A lot of HATE is mistakingly misunderstood by christian folk, people in general don't HATE christians, they honestly can care less what anyone chooses to believe, however, they do indeed hate being told how to live and that every step of the way, they are setting themselves up for hell, I could imagine that getting very tiresome after awhile.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

Mike is right. We don't hate Christ, we hate you. Like God hates the sin, not the sinner. Personally, I hate none of the Christians on this board, I'm a very lonsuffering person. And there's SpiderPoet, who I like.

[Guest Kingpk]

HecateRose, there was a reason all those Christians died as martyrs. They absolutly would not bend! JESUS would not bend!!! God will not bow to our vision, teachings, views, on HIM and HIS plan for mankind. That is why they hated Jesus so much. He dictated!!! He did not ask, beg, plead with people. He commanded, "REPENT, AND BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL." (Mark 1:15).

Nobody likes to be told what to do!!! Nobody!!! That is why TRUE CHRISTIANITY is so offensive!

Most people HATE me because I am teaching TRUE CHRISTIANITY. I am telling people that if you are not Born Again, you will perish. Simple. And every time that message is preached, it will be hated! Because it tells you that you are sinful, dead in spirit, and bound for hell.

 

Bingo, the EXACT reason I can't stand religious folk. Your "true" Christianity is nothing but blind faith to something that may or may not exist. So God is some tyrant whose approach is "my way or the highway?" How the hell can someone LIVE like that? Are you ASSURED a first class ticket and penthouse in Heaven if you do this?

 

It's fine if that's your belief, but don't even TRY to push that on people and then get offended when they call you an idiot.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I think there are just has many atheist or non-believers who push their non-beliefs on people.

 

I'm a Christian, and don't like when your religion is thrown in the face of a non-believer. But I also hate it when all Christian's are sterotyped, and called idiots by someone who doesn't have the same belief system.

[Guest Dopey]

You can go to church and quote the Bible, spend day and night translating scripture from the hebrew text directly, but it doesn't make you a spiritual man.

Absolutly correct!!! You cannot be spiritually reborn/made alive without the act of God's grace.

 

The Holy Spirit of God writes through the apostle Paul, to the saints at Ephesus:

 

"AND YOU HE MADE ALIVE, WHO WERE DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS, IN WHICH YOU ONCE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, ACCORDING TO THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, THE SPIRIT WHO NOW WORKS IN THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE, AMONG WHOM ALSO WE ALL ONCE CONDUCTED OURSELVES IN THE LUSTS OF OUR FLESH, FULFILLING THE DESIRES OF THE FLESH AND OF THE MIND, AND WERE BY NATURE CHILDREN OF WRATH, JUST AS THE OTHERS.

BUT GOD, WHO IS RICH IN MERCY, BECAUSE OF HIS GREAT LOVE WITH WHICH HE LOVED US, EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN TRESPASSES, MADE US ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST (BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED), AND RAISED US UP TOGETHER, ...

FOR BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST." 2:1-6,8

 

God made me born again, that is why I am a spiritual man.

[Guest SP-1]

I've taken a slightly different approach to trying to explain why it's Heaven or Hell in other posts. I think they might be a little more clear than Dopey's ill explained scriptures.

 

And don't get me wrong, I believe in the authority and infallibility of scripture as well, but I believe it's a backup source instead of a main tool of explanation. Which sounds different than how I apply it . . . perhaps a better way of saying it is that it's an integral piece of the personal puzzle that is a part of my unique ministry for God. I witness by living more than trying to force scripture down someone's throat.

 

And most scripture, Dopey, is better understood my people who are filled with the Holy Spirit, I would think. Alot is revealed to you in scripture. That's why it's not a main tool of explanation for me. Non-Christians without the Spirit dwelling in them might not have that database to draw from with God, so to speak, that link that so often allows us to grasp something important to apply to our lives as Christians from Scripture. Feel free to from an argument against that, btw as I'm working that view from something I think I remember.