Bush: The American Leader

[Guest JMA]

At least you gave a reasonable response.

 

I'm waiting for Dreamer to run his Google searches to find something to back up his beliefs in a non-partisan way in a few days..

Hey... low blow. You said to find reasonible evidence. So I will. Let's just leave it at that for now, okay? I just have a hard time putting everything into words and narrowing down certain things. I don't want to forget to put something. Seeing as you were kind enough to correct my spelling, I returned the favor (and no, I'm not being sarcastic). Now, about cars.

 

I'd say people are very interested in hydrogen and electric cars. I think people want an alternative to gas, seeing as how it is getting more expensive and hurts the enviroment. Many enviromentalists would be very happy with them, obviously. People are generally willing to try new ideas, especially if they improve on something. I'd say that there has to be a better alternative than gas. It may not be hydrogen or electric, but it's out there. That, however, is just speculation, and thus, off-topic.

[Guest Some Guy]

Hydrogen and electric cars will never work because people don't want them.  Ford dropped their program for them because they were losing money.  The puplic decides what they want to drive

What makes you think "people" don't want them?? I would agree that at this point there is so little knowledge in circulation to the general public about electric cars that people may be nervous about them, but to say, people don't want them because they don't work is foolish. We put people on the moon for crying out loud, yet an electric car would not work!?! If our government/automobile manufacturers were commited to making them, they would work. If millions were spent to advertise how great they are, people would buy them. Ok my break is over.........

Saying they'll never work was an exageration, they don't work now and that's the important part. Electric cars don't go as fast or as far as gas powered cars adn they need to recharged for long periods of time. They are also very expensive and small. America is in a big car crase rigth now and that is what's selling. As much I dislike SUVs (I dislike them because they are so fucking big and the windows are so dark that I can't see what's in front of them and I am very uncomfortable with trusting others ability to drive) the public wants them. Until Electric cars run as well if not better and are as cheap or cheaper than conventional cars people won't buy them in mass. That's just life. I know environmentalists and some leftists don't like it but that's the way it is.

 

On a side note: "Alternative energy sources" are much the same. They need to be proven to be as effective as oil and be way cheaper. People would have to totally rearrange their homes in order to put in otehr sourse of energy, so it must be cost effecient.

 

What makes me think "people" don't want them is the plaina nd simple fact that "people" don't buy them. That's a pretty acurate way to judge consumer goods. Any knoweldge that people gain about electric cars at this point will only further discourage them from buying them. If electric cars ran as well as my car and were cheaper to buy and operate then I would go get one, but they aren't so I won't.

[Guest Some Guy]

At least you gave a reasonable response.

 

I'm waiting for Dreamer to run his Google searches to find something to back up his beliefs in a non-partisan way in a few days..

Hey... low blow. You said to find reasonible evidence. So I will. Let's just leave it at that for now, okay? I just have a hard time putting everything into words and narrowing down certain things. I don't want to forget to put something. Seeing as you were kind enough to correct my spelling, I returned the favor (and no, I'm not being sarcastic). Now, about cars.

 

I'd say people are very interested in hydrogen and electric cars. I think people want an alternative to gas, seeing as how it is getting more expensive and hurts the enviroment. Many enviromentalists would be very happy with them, obviously. People are generally willing to try new ideas, especially if they improve on something. I'd say that there has to be a better alternative than gas. It may not be hydrogen or electric, but it's out there. That, however, is just speculation, and thus, off-topic.

My spelling is bad, I take no offense to corrections when I'm wrong.

 

That source you are looking for is nuclear energy. It causes far less pollutiona dn can be produced as cheaply as oil. Of course teh melt down problem exists but one catastrophic problem every now and again is probably better than constantly polluting the air.

 

BTW, that white stuff you see coming form the nuclear towers is water wapor and a nuclear power plant produces about a barrel full of waste a year. That barrell could be buried in a cave or even sent into space and dropped on the moon or whatever. That's not a problem.

[Guest JMA]

Question: Are electric and hydrogen fuel based vehicles available on the market now?

 

I'm pretty sure electric ones are avaiable, but not so sure about hydrogen ones. Anyone have any sales figures? Anyways, perhaps they should be made more accessable to the public. Advertisements and the like. I'm sure that most Americans would jump at the chance to save money AND help the enviroment.

[Guest Some Guy]

Question: Are electric and hydrogen fuel based vehicles available on the market now?

 

I'm pretty sure electric ones are avaiable, but not so sure about hydrogen ones. Anyone have any sales figures? Anyways, perhaps they should be made more accessable to the public. Advertisements and the like. I'm sure that most Americans would jump at the chance to save money AND help the enviroment.

I don't know hardly anything about the Hydrogen cars besides my assumption that they are suseptible to explosion, but electric cars are availible and have been for a while now and maybe a few thousand have sold, which considering teh high costs for production is not close to enough to justify the car companies to keep making them. I heard a few months ago that Ford stopped producing them for the reasons I've mentioned.

 

"I'm sure that most Americans would jump at the chance to save money AND help the enviroment."

 

Save money 1st, help environment 2nd. Just remember that is the order the the American public puts those in, you may not like it but that's life.

[Guest JMA]

Save money 1st, help environment 2nd. Just remember that is the order the the American public puts those in, you may not like it but that's life.

I was ALREADY assuming that. I mean, duh.

[Guest JMA]

Another question: How does Bush plan to give Americans a large tax cut AND support a war in Iraq? And what happens if Al Queda and/or North Korea decide to take advantage of the confusion and attack? Don't say it isn't a possibility. It is a very scary possibility.

[Guest redbaron51]

after the invasion of iraq...then its the tax break...hoping the economy gets stronger

[Guest Some Guy]

Another question: How does Bush plan to give Americans a large tax cut AND support a war in Iraq?

Simple, there is tons of wasted money that shouldn't be spent or taken from the American people. Just cut spending and pork barrell bull shit.

 

And what happens if Al Queda and/or North Korea decide to take advantage of the confusion and attack? Don't say it isn't a possibility. It is a very scary possibility.

 

al Qaeda is a much more realistic threat than the N. Koreans right now. But I;m sure the administration has plans in case that happens.

[Guest NoCalMike]

To get back to the electric car thing. Of course people want SUVs right now, because that is what is getting pushed by advertising. Once they are not COOL to drive anymore, then they will revert back to people who really NEED that type of vehicle rather than those who want a good looking driveway.

 

Before SUVs it was tiny sportscars, it is really a similar type craze and it is mostly dictated by advertising dollars, not care or concern for the consumer or enviornment. The scariest part is they are making SUVS that can take off nearly as fast as sports cars, which is a very dangerous thing. Yes, maybe initially automobile companies may take losses trying to sell electric/hydro cars, but I am sure they took the same risks and losses in the beginning of the SUV era when these big 50,000 monsters were sitting on the lot with no one buying them. The only difference is that good fuel efficient cars are not going to garner the same profit as SUVS so that is why they will ULTAMITELY lose out and possibly NEVER gain mainstream exposure. I think a good way to go is hybrid cars which come in your normal mid-size or smaller car. If the american automobile companies want to continue to lose out to Honda, and other popular foreign auto companies(although Ford and Chevy can hardly be called american anymore) then by all means they should keep doing what they are right now.

 

I didn't mean for this post to come out as anti-SUV, which it might have. I can argue about why I hate SUVS all day, but this post was more meant to talk about how with billions of dollars behind you, you can accomplish pretty much whatever you want, whether it be SUVs or Sports Cars...even Electric cars.

[Guest Some Guy]

I think they probably ran polls and asked women what they wanted in a car and got "big" and "comfortable" as a response and hence the "Eddie Bauer" SUVs. Woman drive more than 50% of the SUVs on the road, that was not a sexist statement although my dislike of SUVs stems from that statistic and is sexist in nature. Sue me.

 

I'm sure this trend will pass although I think it will take a long time. People feel "safe" in their big ass passenger trucks and the feeling of safety, false or not is very important to many drivers (read women drivers).

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well yes and I bet people also figure, " hey who cares if I wreck, as long as I don't die, it's all good" until the SUVS roll over because they are not at the safe height level(SUV hate slipping out) ok, gotta get back to work.

[Guest EricMM]

I won't really LBL since that's not really my "thing" but I'll try to reply about the electric cars thing as I see it.

 

Actually, first, hey Some Guy.

 

Ok, now. It's important to know what kind of alternative car power you're talking about here. Electronic cars are just NOT reasonable. The battery life is too small, they're not strong enough, and yadda yadda. Forget them. Solar cars are like, even worse. Ok, so Hydrogen powered cars are different. The use of hydrogen as a fuel creates only water vapor, making it very clean. It's just as strong and effective as combustion, so you don't have to drive a geo metro. You could make a hydrogen SUV if you wanted to. You could make a hydrogen powered Airplane or a Space shuttle too I guess. Right now however, hydrogen power is too expensive. There hasn't been nearly the amout of research into hydrogen/fuel cell power that there has been into conventional fossil fuels. Heck, we pretty much know almost all there is to know about using oil, but every year we come up with different refining techniques, stuff like shale oil, and other methods to make the oil last longer. We're humans, we make tools, then we make them better. It's what we do. But the grand point is, the power companies, the oil companies, they get massive govt. subsidies to provide cheap power/oil/gas for Americans. That's why it only costs 1.## here, and 4.## in Europe. Americans like cheap gas, and will support a govt. that will provide cheap gas.

 

Where am I going with this? Basically, with a leader who is still very loyal to the oil companies that made his father and himself (as well as his VP) the people they are, it is much less likely that he will put the money into the R&D to make alternative energy sources viable. However, America doesn't have THAT much Oil, even in Alaska. However, we can make a lot of Hydrogen gas out of Natural Fuels, as well as creating it from water. The water thing takes some power, and that would either mean SOME use of non-renewable sources such as fossil or nuclear fuels, but on the other hand, with more research, Wind farms or Solar plants COULD provide a sizable percentage of that power.

 

On the safty issues (I laughed when I read that they were succeptable to explostion ) I've heard lots of different things. Of course we've all seen the hindenburg, but on the other hand, it was a balloon on fire, what else was it supposed to do? Almost everyone got out of that Zepplin alive. APPARENTLY (from a Hydrogen car lobbiest) gasoline is more dangerous because it can coat you can continue to burn, which hydrogen won't do. I REALLY don't know, but my guess is, if it's a fuel, and it catches on fire, you're toast either way.

 

I guess, IMO, if America gave the billions to the hydrogen car industry that it does to the fossil fuel car industry, it wouldn't take 10 years to become economically viable. Of course hydrogen cars are expensive now, the technology is new. It's like, the same with computers. Things get cheaper, especially with massive govt. funding. I think America has an agenda to become self sufficent. I think the health quality of americans would improve if less smog were around cities like L.A. Even if you don't believe in global warming, you must believe in some sort of pollution. Hydrogen cars would certainly eliminate all of the exhaust issues. I guess I feel that Bush is too loyal to the Fossil Fuel lobby to totally pull the power industry into the 21st century.

[Guest JMA]

Hm. I think I may try one of these electric cars. Do they cost more than regular cars? Where do they sell them?

[Guest EricMM]

No, listen I specifically said NO ELECTRIC CARS.

 

Try a Hybrid cars they get swank gas mileage, and you can actually buy one that is basically a real car. Don't get the prius because it is TOO SMALL.

 

Otherwise, it's gotta be oil or nothing until something changes.

[Guest Some Guy]

Eric, I just assumjed they were suseptible to explosion, I also admitted my ignorance about Hydrogen cars. We'll see were this goes.

 

Dreamer, yes they are much more expensive.

[Guest JMA]

Dreamer, yes they are much more expensive.

Like you said, money comes first. And while I think our society would work better without currency, it's the best system at this time. Much like oil. Until the second coming of John Lennon, that is.

[Guest Some Guy]

HUH?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

What?...

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, what's up with that?

[Guest NoCalMike]

Ok Eric, I would like to knows where you got your facts & figures about Electric cars. And secondly, it isn't only Bush who is loyal to the oil czars, Democrats are just as guilty so I am not gonna try and make Bush take the blame there, moreso our government as a whole rather than just a president.

[Guest Some Guy]

i don;t know where he gets his info but he's always been pimping the electric cars and such, so i trust him on that.

[Guest NoCalMike]

i don;t know where he gets his info but he's always been pimping the electric cars and such, so i trust him on that.

Well I only ask because I am sure we could both find biased conflicted opinions on the net about whether the cars are good or bad. And I don't necessarily disagree that RIGHT NOW, electric cars are not ready to be rolled out onto the shoproom floor, however with the current technology it is a very hard sell to tell me, it can't be done. Like I said before, we have put people on the moon, yet some claim making an efficient electric car is out of reason!?! We just need the commitment by whoever runs things.

[Guest bob_barron]

SomeGuy-

 

In the bimonthly Canada v. USA thread the talk of Bush being an idiot and after the usual BUSH IS ST00PID stuff Ravishing Rick Rudo posted a bunch of policies and things that Bush proposed and stuff that made him think Bush was stupid.

 

Feel free to defend any policy you want.

 

(I'm a Republican and all but I think you've had it too easy so far. :-)

 

Cut Environmental Protection Agency budget by $500 million.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

 

Cut funding by 28% for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

Cut by 50% funding for research into renewable energy sources.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

Suspended rules that would require hardrock miners to clean up sites on Western public lands.

 

Reuters, March 21, 2001

 

 

Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Treaty global warming agreement.

Washington Post, March 28, 2001

 

 

Proposes to ease permit process - including environmental considerations - for refinery, nuclear and hydroelectric dam construction.

Washington Post, May 18, 2001

 

Proposes to give government the authority to take private property through eminent domain for power lines.

Washington Post, May 18, 2001

 

Interior Department appointee Gale Norton sends out letters to state officials soliciting suggestions for opening up national monuments for oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and foresting.

MSNBC, March 28, 2001

 

 

Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

Village Voice, February 13, 2001

 

Cut federal spending on libraries by $39 million.

The Dallas Morning News, April 13, 2001

 

Cut $35 million in funding for doctors to get advanced pediatric training.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

 

Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic in drinking water.

Washington Post, March 30, 2001

 

Blocked rules that would require federal agencies to offer bilingual assistance to non-English speaking persons.

New York Times, March 24, 2001

 

Proposed to eliminate new marine protections for the Channel Islands and the coral reefs of northwest Hawaii.

San Francisco Chronicle, April 6, 2001

 

 

Suspended rules that would have strengthened the governments ability to deny contracts to companies that violated workplace safety, environmental and other federal laws.

Washington Post, March 31, 2001

 

 

Appointed John Negroponte - an unindicted high level Iran Contra figure -to post of United nations ambassador.

MSNBC, March 24, 2001

 

Abandoned campaign pledge to invest $100 million for rain forest conservation.

Boston Globe, April 10, 2001

 

Reduced by 86% the Community Access Program for public hospitals, clinics and providers of care for people without insurance.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

Rescinded proposal to increase public access to information about potential consequences resulting from chemical plant accidents.

New York Times, March 27, 2001

 

 

Cut $60 million from program for Boys and Girls Clubs of America in public housing.

Washington Post, April 12, 2001

 

Proposed to eliminate federal program designed to help communities (and successfully used by Seattle) prepare for natural disasters.

CNN, March 1, 2001

 

 

Cut $200 million for work force training for dislocated workers.

Los Angeles Times, April 6, 2001

 

Eliminated funding for the Wetlands Reserve Program which encourages farmers to maintain wetlands habitat on their property.

Washington post, April 10, 2001

 

Cut program to provide child care to low-income families as they move from welfare to work.

New York Times, March 22, 2001

 

Cut program that provided prescription contraceptives coverage to federal employees (though it still pays for Viagra).

Associated Press, April 11, 2001

 

Cut $700 million in capital funds for repairs in public housing.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

Appointed Otto Reich - an unindicted high level Iran Contra figure - to Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs.

MSNBC, March 25, 2001

 

 

Proposed to curtail the ability of groups to sue to get an animal placed on the Endangered Species List.

Washington Post, April 12, 2001

 

Rescinded rule that mandated increased energy-saving efficiency regulations for central air conditioners and heat pumps.

Washington Post, April 14, 2001

 

Repealed workplace ergonomic rules designed to improve worker health and safety.

Reuters, March 20, 2001

 

Abandoned campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide (CO2) the waste gas that contributes to global warming.

New York Times, March 20, 2001

 

Banned federal aid to international family planning programs that offer abortion counseling with other independent funds.

New York Times, January 21, 2001

 

Closed White House Office for Women´s Health Initiatives and Outreach.

Washington Post, March 29, 2001

 

Nominated David Lauriski - ex-mining company executive - to post of Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health.

 

Interior Secretary Gale Norton goes forth with controversial plan to auction oil and gas development tracts off the coast eastern of Florida.

Associated Press, April 19, 2001

 

Announced intention to open up Montana´s Lewis and Clark National Forest to oil and drilling.

Missoula Independent, April 12, 2001

 

Proposes to redraw boundaries of nation monuments which would technically allow oil and gas drilling "outside" of national monuments.

 

Gutted White House AIDS Office.

 

Renegotiating free trade agreement with Jordan to eliminate safeguards for the environment and workers´ rights.

Washington Post, April 10, 2001

 

Will no longer seek guidance from The American Bar Association in recommendations for the federal judiciary appointments.

 

Appointed recycling foe Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior.

 

Took steps to abolish the White House Council on Environmental Quality.

 

Cut the Community Oriented Policing Services program

Los Angeles Times, March 30, 2001

 

Appointee Gale Norton plans to shelve grizzly bear reintroduction plan scheduled for Idaho and Montana wilderness.

Washington Post, April 25, 2001

 

Continues to hold up federal funding for stem cell research projects.

Boston Globe, April 25, 2001

 

Under Bush plan convicted misdemeanor drug users cannot get financial aid for college yet convicted murders could.

American Prospect, April 20, 2001

 

Refused to fund continued cleanup of uranium-slag heap in Utah.

Los Angeles Times, April 24, 2001

 

Refused to fund continued litigation of the government´s tobacco company lawsuit.

Associated Press, April 26, 2001

 

Proposed a $2 trillion tax cut of which 43% will go to the wealthiest 1% of Americans.

 

Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle class Americans to file for bankruptcy even in the instance of daunting medical bills.

 

"If you want to do something about carbon dioxide emissions, then you ought to build nuclear power plants".

Vice President Dick Cheney on Meet The Press.

 

Appointed Diana "There is no gender gap in pay" Roth to the Council of Economic Advisers.

Boston Globe, March 28, 2001

 

Appointed Kay Cole James - an opponent of affirmative action - to direct the Office of Personnel Management.

Boston Globe, March 28, 2001

 

Cut $15.7 million earmarked for states to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect.

New York Times, March 23, 2001

 

Helped kill a law designed to make it tougher for teenagers to get credit cards.

New York Times, March 23, 2001

 

Proposed to eliminate the Reading is Fundamental program that gives free books to poor children.

Associated Press, April 25, 2001

 

Is pushing for development of small nuclear weapons to attack deeply buried targets - weapons which would violate the Comprehensive test Ban Treaty.

American Physical Society, April 22, 2001

 

Proposes to nominate Jeffrey Sutton - attorney responsible for the recent case weakening the Americans with Disabilities Act - to federal appeals court judgeship.

USA Today, March 23, 2001

 

Proposes to reverse regulation protecting 60 million acres of national forest from logging and road building.

Washington Post, April 26, 2001

 

Eliminated funding for the "We the People" education program which taught schoolchildren about the Constitution, Bill of Rights and citizenship.

St. Petersburg Times, May 1, 2001

 

Appointed John Bolton - who opposes nonproliferation treaties and the U.N. - to Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.

Boston Globe, April 2, 2001

 

Nominated Linda Fisher - an executive with Monsanto - for the number two job at the Environmental Protection Agency.

Reuters, May 1, 2001

 

Nominated Michael McConnell - leading critic of the separation of church and state - to federal judgeship.

Detroit Free Press, May 11, 2001

 

Nominated Terrence Boyle - ardent opponent of civil rights - to a federal judgeship.

Detroit Free Press, May 11th, 2001

 

Cancelled 2004 deadline for automakers to develop prototype high-mileage cars.

Mercury News, May 11th, 2001

 

Nominated Harvey Pitts - lawyer for teen sex video distributor - to head SEC.

Washington Post, May 11th, 2001

 

Nominated John Walters - strong opponent of prison drug treatment programs - for Drug Czar.

Washington Post, May 16, 2001

 

Nominated J. Steven Giles - an oil and coal lobbyist - for Deputy Secretary of the Interior.

Washington Post, May 16, 2001

 

Nominated Bennett Raley - who advocates repealing the Endangered Species Act - for Assistant Secretary for Water and Science.

Washington Post, May 16, 2001

 

Is seeking the dismissal of class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves in WWII.

Washington Post, May 14, 2001

 

Earmarked $4 million in new federal grant money for HIV and drug abuse prevention programs to go only to religious groups and not secular equivalents.

Associated Press, May 16, 2001

 

Reduced by 40% the Low Income Home Assistance Program for low-income individuals who need assistance paying energy bills.

Salon, May 18, 2001

 

Nominated Terrance Boyle - foe of civil rights - to federal judgeship.

Washington Post, May 18, 2001

 

Proposes that $1.2 billion in funding for alternative renewable energy come from selling oil and gas lease tracts in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve.

Washington Post, May 18, 2001

 

Plans on serving genetically engineered foods at all official government functions.

AlterNet, May 14, 2001

 

"Even as Bush highlighted hydroelectric power, he admitted his own doubt that so-called renewable energy sources, including solar and wind power, can ever replace oil and gas. `I hope someday that these renewables will be the dominant source of energy in America. I´m not so sure how realistic that is,´ Bush said."

Associated Press, May 18, 2001

[Guest DrTom]

Bob, keep one thing in mind here. Reagan and Bush Sr. were criticized for cutting spending on certain programs, when in fact the opposite happened. Let's say the education budget for one year was $100 billion. The expected budget for the next year was $115 billion, but Bush only allocates $110b. His adversaries would immediately shout that he cut education spending, he was trying to starve our children, etc. In reality, of course, spending was increased, but not by as much as some people felt it should have been. So in some cases, "cut" should be read as, "did not increase spending enough to satisfy detractors."

 

Clinton got called onto the carpet with the same tactic by his detractors, but pillorying Reagan and Bush got more press.

 

(Edit: typos are ghey)

[Guest NoCalMike]

That was a lot of issues to lay down at once, however to be fair, I am sure you kind find exceprts and blurbs like that about any president.

[Guest bob_barron]

Bob, keep one thing in mind here. Reagan and Bush Sr. were criticized for cutting spending on certain programs, when in fact the opposite happened. Let's say the education budget for one year was $100 billion. The expected budget for the next year was $115 billion, but Bush only allocates $110b. His adversaries would immediately shout that he cut education spending, he was trying to starve our children, etc. In reality, of course, spending was increased, but not by as much as some people felt it should have been. So in some cases, "cut" should be read as, "did not increase spending enough to satisfy detractors."

 

Clinton got called onto the carpet with the same tactic by his detractors, but pillorying Reagan and Bush got more press.

 

(Edit: typos are ghey)

I understand- I was just giving SomeGuy some ammo to work with.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Bush also appointed John Poindexter, who was indicted on seven federal felony charges stemming from the Iran-Contra scandal, to the head of the government's Total Information Awareness project.

[Guest JMA]

I don't see Bush as being very book smart, or even street smart for that matter. Of course, this is all speculation. I don't have an IQ tests or charts or anything. I simply think he's a slow, simple man. But, I do agree with Dennis Miller that he is smart enough to surround himself with smart people.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Bush also appointed John Poindexter, who was indicted on seven federal felony charges stemming from the Iran-Contra scandal, to the head of the government's Total Information Awareness project.

That's been killed before it even happened. Just heard it on the radio today.