Bush: The American Leader

[Guest EricMM]

(Is no sold like a BITCH)

 

come on come on. I disagreed with both of you.

[Guest JMA]

Wow, Tyler. Way to take the fight to him. You rule, yo.

[Guest Brian]

It's such a fucking tight looking car. It's economy, but it has a sweet layout inside. That metallic cover.

 

It's very easy to manipulate the tax system. Rich people tend to have a lot more access to it. And 80-90% of the time it doesn't catch up to them. It's generally when they start getting cocky. My father was an accountant for the government making 100,000+ in the early nineties so I know this stuff pretty well. Claiming dependants,falsifying records, offshore accounts, manipulating the bond market, "mis-reporting" records, secondary paychecks, etc.

[Guest Some Guy]

NO ONE SIGNED THE FUCKING TREATY!!!!!!!!! Every one just sat back and waited for America to sign first, if it was such a great treaty why didn't CLinton sign it in 97, 98, 99, or 2000? It was bullshit that would have cost America billions and hindered the development of the 3rd world.

 

1Yeah, gee, it's not as if we can afford to take money from our departmental pork-barrell budgets to save the fucking environment.

 

That's terrible logic.

 

So what? ANimals come and go, that's life.

 

2Wow, more terrible logic. DUR HUR HUR, LET'S KILL DA AMINALS!

 

What is the logic behind Bush's idea here? Why shouldn't we protect some of the most exotic and beautiful animals in the world?

 

....

 

Hmm?

 

Left wingers dominate many of the major firms and control commities. WHy would he want the advice of his political adversaries?

 

3Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't all the other presidents dealt with this? Why can't Dubya?

 

Good, the tobacco lawsuits should all end.

 

4I find it hilarious that you say that and then use the following as support for your entire claim.

 

"I'll justy pick and choose and leave the other stuff under the "Bush doesn't agree with me so he must be stupid" category"

 

You're using the "Bush agrees with me so it's right hahahhaahahaha i win LOL OMG!" school of thought there, huh? Perhaps you should take a step back and view your own hypocricy before you try to argue with people.

 

Well, they do pay 80% of the taxes. Seems fair to me. Who should get a tax cut? Those who don't pay?

 

5See above. Most of them don't pay dick anyway, and the ones that do pay well, well, WELL within their needs. This is as opposed to Joe Nextdoor who can't afford his own damned rent. Stop no-selling my posts.

 

This is true the only carbon dioxide emmisons from a nuke plant is what is exhaled by the employees.

 

6Yes, the solution to fixing carbon dioxide problems is adding the risk of a major ecological diasaster.

 

Beautiful logic.

 

I'm sure there was no reason, like perhaps they couldn't get it done by then. I'm honestly not sure but I doubt he just killed the bill for no reason. Perhaps because it violates the car makers freedom.

 

7Okay, rule of thumb: don't make an argument if you aren't informed about it.

 

Honda has already done it (see above post). Other companies have already done it, too. If they wanted to accomplish this, they could... but George "I LUV OIL!! OIL LUVS ME!!" Bush couldn't bear the thought of his wonderful black gold being less valuable... but I digress.

 

kthx.

1) I think we should take the money frrom our "departmental pork-barrell budgets" and give it back to those who earned it. Human arrogancve at its finest here. This "save teh environment" shit is stupid. We can help it, but we certainly can't save it. Kyoto wouldn't have done anything but let the rest of the world further fleece our money.

 

2) When did I say to kill animals? Trying to "save" them is fruitless, they'll die out eventually anyway, just like humans will. It's human nature, that whole Darwinian theory, ya know? I DON't think we should intentially go out and masacre animals but if they are in the way of human progress, that's life. You would not be living the life you do if it weren't for "killing animals" and "ruining the environment".

 

3) WHy bother, do you consult me before making political decisions? No, so why should Bush?

 

4) I really was in a hurry, I chose the ones that stuck out the most. ALMOST All of teh others were the same thing about cuts in environmental spending and appointments, all of which are political opinions. You disagree with them so they must be stupid and maybe evil. There was no point in bothering.

 

ERic made teh case against the tobacco lawsuits, I won't bother.

 

5) ONce again, you're full of shit. They pay way more than anyone else and as such if you are going to give a tax cut, logic states that it should go to those wgo, you know, pay taxes. i didn't "no-sell" your post. You are wrong.

 

6) NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS DO NOT PRODUCE CARBON DIOXIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was what I and the VIce President said. What you think about them is imaterial. I and the VIce President are correct about that point, you can not argue against it. IT IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!

Stop no-selling my posts.

 

7) Point taken. I think you take this "Bush loves oil" shit way too far. WHy wouldn't he just invest in Hydrogen cars after he's out of office? He has no stocks and no investments right now.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

(Is no sold like a BITCH)

 

come on come on. I disagreed with both of you.

I didn't no-sell you, you just disputed the same point as did he.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

1) I think we should take the money frrom our "departmental pork-barrell budgets" and give it back to those who earned it. Human arrogancve at its finest here. This "save teh environment" shit is stupid. We can help it, but we certainly can't save it. Kyoto wouldn't have done anything but let the rest of the world further fleece our money.

 

So, let me get this straight... if you say "help the environment", the policy is fine, but if it says "save the environment", it's ludacrous?

 

Alrighty, well, the Kyoto treaty was going to help, not save, the environment. Happy?

 

We should make every effort to help the environment. We're all probably going to die of cancer in 20 years if we don't. We're making the world worse for our children, just so we can make a few extra bucks. We're killing off species of animals to save a few extra bucks.

 

We waste a ton of money every year. You don't dispute that.

 

Okay... considering we're not gonna give the money back to the people (that's a friggin' given), why not use a bit of it to help the environment? We ARE giving it back to the people if we do that.

 

2) When did I say to kill animals? Trying to "save" them is fruitless, they'll die out eventually anyway, just like humans will. It's human nature, that whole Darwinian theory, ya know? I DON't think we should intentially go out and masacre animals but if they are in the way of human progress, that's life. You would not be living the life you do if it weren't for "killing animals" and "ruining the environment".

 

The whole fucking point of protecting certain species of animals is because we're the primary cause of their elimination... not because they're being naturally selected.

 

It's entirely unnatural that a big fucking oil pipeline kills an entire species of caribou.

 

It's entirely unnatural that we log rainforests and destroy the habitats - and the lives - of many species of animals.

 

What's so wrong with protecting them from annihilation at the hands of big business?

 

3) WHy bother, do you consult me before making political decisions? No, so why should Bush?

 

Because everyone else did, why can't he?

 

He just wants more power, that's why. Don't deny that, either.

 

4) I really was in a hurry, I chose the ones that stuck out the most. ALMOST All of teh others were the same thing about cuts in environmental spending and appointments, all of which are political opinions. You disagree with them so they must be stupid and maybe evil. There was no point in bothering.

 

And yet, you expect your points will be completely taken as credo because they're right and all other opinions are evil.

 

Clever boy...

 

5) ONce again, you're full of shit. They pay way more than anyone else and as such if you are going to give a tax cut, logic states that it should go to those wgo, you know, pay taxes. i didn't "no-sell" your post. You are wrong.

 

Read my citations. More on the way.

 

6) NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS DO NOT PRODUCE CARBON DIOXIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was what I and the VIce President said. What you think about them is imaterial. I and the VIce President are correct about that point, you can not argue against it. IT IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!

Stop no-selling my posts.

 

Guess what? Nobody disputed that fact. We simply have a problem with the fact that you're replacing pollution with risk of an ecological nightmare.

 

Stop dodging, fool.

 

7) Point taken. I think you take this "Bush loves oil" shit way too far. WHy wouldn't he just invest in Hydrogen cars after he's out of office? He has no stocks and no investments right now.

 

I completely and utterly support his investment in hydrogen cars. However, it should have been done a fuckload of a long time ago.

 

However, I disagree. He had investments in Enron.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Hey, look! Corporations are still finding loopholes.

[Guest EricMM]

This "save teh environment" shit is stupid. We can help it, but we certainly can't save it. Kyoto wouldn't have done anything but let the rest of the world further fleece our money.

First of all, why is it stupid to save the environment? it's OUR environment!! Its where we live, eat, and breathe. If you look at almost all (not all ALMOST all) ecological movements, they are attempting to prevent damage to human's way of life.

 

When did I say to kill animals? Trying to "save" them is fruitless, they'll die out eventually anyway, just like humans will. It's human nature, that whole Darwinian theory, ya know? I DON't think we should intentially go out and masacre animals but if they are in the way of human progress, that's life. You would not be living the life you do if it weren't for "killing animals" and "ruining the environment".

What is happening is not Darwin. It is not evolution. It is humans destroying ecosystems. We are not taking over ecological niches, we are destroying them. These creatures that die are not being replaced, nothing is filling their niches. We are destroying genetic diversity, and we aren't allowing things to evolve! It takes thousands of years, not hundreds.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I agree, it's time to cut the loopholes. But, if you ask some, they don't exist... right?

[Guest EricMM]

Tyler you can find all the cases you want, but they are basically the minority, and rich people still pay 80% of the taxes. What is so hard to grasp about this?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

An oldie, but a goodie. Nader on tax loopholes.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

That's a given, Eric, but quite frankly... more people screw the tax system than pay it.

 

Theoretically, a tiny proportion of the "rich" population could still dwarf the income which is generated by the middle/lower classes.

[Guest Brian]

From earlier:

 

"It's very easy to manipulate the tax system. Rich people tend to have a lot more access to it. And 80-90% of the time it doesn't catch up to them. It's generally when they start getting cocky. My father was an accountant for the government making 100,000+ in the early nineties so I know this stuff pretty well. Claiming dependants,falsifying records, offshore accounts, manipulating the bond market, "mis-reporting" records, secondary paychecks, etc."

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Thank you, Brian.

[Guest EricMM]

But. They. Still. Pay. 80%. Of. Americas. Annual. Tax. Income.

 

Right?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

a tiny proportion of the "rich" population could still dwarf the income which is generated by the middle/lower classes.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Another point: Tax cuts for the rich help them buy two extra yachts. Tax cuts for the poor help them make their mortgage.

[Guest Some Guy]

2) ENJOYING A drink is "idiotic"? So I gues that makes 90% of the AMerican puplic stupid, right?

 

1Choosing to poison your brain is rather stupid, yes.

 

That should be comended, shit, even Phil DOnahue will say that.

 

2)Wow, I could really care less about what Phil Donahue says.

 

Sure, give him props for quitting. With some of his decisions, though, I question whether he did or not.

 

3) So TEd Kennedy is "stupid" I suppose? HE IS A worse speaker than BUsh and trips over his words far more often. I also never claimed that Bush was as Rhode's Scholar, Clinton was though.

 

3"Tripping over words" and making them up are two vastly different things. Hell, even a semi-intelligent bad speaker won't make up words most of the time. Making up words is pure idiocy.

 

4) OK, Bush was Governor of TExas (an extremely popular Governor, no less) and the state chose to execute murderers. They did this before BUSH was GOV. and continue to do this afterwards. So what? These people killed someone else in cold blood with malice aforethought. WHo is the one with no respect for human life again?

Plus. Bush never killed anyone, that was Ted KEnnedy. DIfferent politcal family and former alcohol abuser.

 

4So, an eye for an eye is a proper policy... and this is coming from the Religious Right.

 

So... someone KILLS ANOTHER MAN and to make it right, we kill them? Beautiful logic, my friend! Bring up abortion, I dare you.

 

Also, stop with the stupid, inane little jabs on Dems. They're pointless and they show that you require the topic to be changed in order to maintain your point.

 

5) NO, being anti-gay and against gay marraige is not the same. Bush has done nothing to hurt gays and has done really nothign to help them and he has no obligation to specifically help gays, they have greater than equal protection under law. He's remained pretty ambivilant about it. Keep in mind that gay marraige is not a popular thing, it would not win in a national election. People don't want it, this is a democracy last I checked. Oh yeah, most people's political ideology stems from their personal morality. Your's does, mine does, what's the problem?

 

5Please provide a source that indicates that more than 50% of voting Americans are against gay unions.

 

Also, please provide a source that indicates that allowing gays to marry will be significantly detrimental to our nation.

 

But you should?

 

6And would you cut the shit with "Georgie" and "DUBYA" it's irritating.

 

No, I don't think I should tell them to get married. They should be able to decide on their own.

 

And, I'll stop calling him by his wonderful monikers if you go back and edit your posts.

1) If you say so, I bet you've never done anything to poison your body in any way, right? I enjoy drining beer, I enjoy smoking cigarettes. i don't thinkm that makes me stupid. They may be poor health choices but they are mine to make.

 

2) YOu shouldn't, i was just throwing a leftist name out there who I've heard commend him for quitting.

 

This is a ideology thing. I've never said that "JFK must have been popping pills, boozing it up, and fucking some slut when he decided to go through with the Bay of Pigs." Grow up.

 

3) I said he does himslef no favors when he mispronouces words. I think it makes him appear to be stupid, however it does not make him stupid.

 

4) When did I join the religious right? I'm an Agnostic. Abortion has nothing to do with this and I am pro-choice. I believe in the death penalty, i feel that if you murder a person you have given up your right to live. My opinion, you have yours.

 

5) I spoke with out a source to back me, but go around and askl random people and I bet the majority woiuld be against it. If they weren't then they would be gay marraiges.

 

Also, please provide a source that indicates that allowing gays to marry will be significantly detrimental to our nation.

 

I said this, when? I never took a personal stand on gay marriage in this thread. I'm am not in favor of it, but i would accept it if the majority of the people in this country voted for it. I just don't like the idea, that is pretty much my only basless viewpoint. It's just the way I feel.

 

6) Edit my posts for what? Spelling? The "SHift" key thing? or something else? I';m honestly curious.

[Guest EricMM]

So it's fair to tax someone 75% of their income?

[Guest Some Guy]

That's a given, Eric, but quite frankly... more people screw the tax system than pay it.

 

Theoretically, a tiny proportion of the "rich" population could still dwarf the income which is generated by the middle/lower classes.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

You hate the "rich" we get it, now move on.

 

BTW, you've gone form the "rich" pay "NO TAXES" to admiting that they pay 80% of them. Pick a position and stick to it.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

1) If you say so, I bet you've never done anything to poison your body in any way, right? I enjoy drining beer, I enjoy smoking cigarettes. i don't thinkm that makes me stupid. They may be poor health choices but they are mine to make.

 

Actually, no, I haven't done anything that could potentially poison my brain. I'm really not that stupid.

 

2) YOu shouldn't, i was just throwing a leftist name out there who I've heard commend him for quitting.

 

This is a ideology thing. I've never said that "JFK must have been popping pills, boozing it up, and fucking some slut when he decided to go through with the Bay of Pigs." Grow up.

 

Perhaps I'm not a JFK expert, but I don't remember any events in which he was caught fucking some slut, popping pills, and getting drunk at the same time. Thanks for trying, though.

 

3) I said he does himslef no favors when he mispronouces words. I think it makes him appear to be stupid, however it does not make him stupid.

 

It would be no big deal if he corrected himself and didn't make the same mistake again. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believes they are really words.

 

4) When did I join the religious right? I'm an Agnostic. Abortion has nothing to do with this and I am pro-choice. I believe in the death penalty, i feel that if you murder a person you have given up your right to live. My opinion, you have yours.

 

Fair enough.

 

I said this, when? I never took a personal stand on gay marriage in this thread. I'm am not in favor of it, but i would accept it if the majority of the people in this country voted for it. I just don't like the idea, that is pretty much my only basless viewpoint. It's just the way I feel.

 

Again, fair enough, but this isn't even being put up to a vote. That would shut everyone up pretty nicely, wouldn't it?

 

Subject is quite null, though, let's stay on topic.

 

6) Edit my posts for what? Spelling? The "SHift" key thing? or something else? I';m honestly curious.

 

Both

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

So it's fair to tax someone 75% of their income?

Cite your source that the rich pay 75% of their income.

 

I've cited quite a few that suggest otherwise.

[Guest Some Guy]

Another point: Tax cuts for the rich help them buy two extra yachts. Tax cuts for the poor help them make their mortgage.

That is why EVERYBOSY GOT A TAX CUT!!!!!!!!

 

WHy can't you accept that fact? Is it really that hard to grasp? Wealthier people got more money back because they pay more money in taxes. All the shit you've posted is about them cheating on their taxes, not refuting the truth that they still pay the most. People form all socio-economic backgrounds cheat on their taxes.

 

Your Marxist pathologies are getting really old, really fast.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

That's a given, Eric, but quite frankly... more people screw the tax system than pay it.

 

Theoretically, a tiny proportion of the "rich" population could still dwarf the income which is generated by the middle/lower classes.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

You hate the "rich" we get it, now move on.

 

BTW, you've gone form the "rich" pay "NO TAXES" to admiting that they pay 80% of them. Pick a position and stick to it.

"NO" taxes was an obvious exaggeration.

 

However, many people do, in fact, pay relatively dick in taxes. View Brian's post for details on tax evasion.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

That is why EVERYBOSY GOT A TAX CUT!!!!!!!!

 

Not really.

 

Lower tax brackets got a negligable sum, if anything.

 

Your Marxist pathologies are getting really old, really fast.

 

Cite your source that my arguments are Marxist in nature.

 

That's bullshit and inflammitory; it could even be considered flame-baiting.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

From earlier:

 

"It's very easy to manipulate the tax system. Rich people tend to have a lot more access to it. And 80-90% of the time it doesn't catch up to them. It's generally when they start getting cocky. My father was an accountant for the government making 100,000+ in the early nineties so I know this stuff pretty well. Claiming dependants,falsifying records, offshore accounts, manipulating the bond market, "mis-reporting" records, secondary paychecks, etc."

 

Stop no-selling him. He's got more knowledge about it than any of us.

[Guest Some Guy]

1) If you say so, I bet you've never done anything to poison your body in any way, right? I enjoy drining beer, I enjoy smoking cigarettes. i don't thinkm that makes me stupid. They may be poor health choices but they are mine to make.

 

Actually, no, I haven't done anything that could potentially poison my brain. I'm really not that stupid.

 

 

 

Ok, good for you.

 

Perhaps I'm not a JFK expert, but I don't remember any events in which he was caught fucking some slut, popping pills, and getting drunk at the same time. Thanks for trying, though.

 

There was a big story a few months ago about how many pain pills JFK took, he enjoyed drinking with Sinatra and his Mob buddies, and he was an adulterer. You can't really argue that. When has Bush been drunk while PResident. He hasn't been. The guy drink O'Douls for CHrist's sake and hasn't had an alcoholic drink in over 16 years. Enough of this shit.

 

It would be no big deal if he corrected himself and didn't make the same mistake again. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believes they are really words.

 

He rarely makes the same mistake again, it's usually a new one.

 

Again, fair enough, but this isn't even being put up to a vote. That would shut everyone up pretty nicely, wouldn't it?

 

Subject is quite null, though, let's stay on topic.

 

Neither side of this issue wants it to go to a vote, they are both afraid that they'll lose. I'mm done with this one too.

 

Both

 

No

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

There was a big story a few months ago about how many pain pills JFK took, he enjoyed drinking with Sinatra and his Mob buddies, and he was an adulterer. You can't really argue that. When has Bush been drunk while PResident. He hasn't been. The guy drink O'Douls for CHrist's sake and hasn't had an alcoholic drink in over 16 years. Enough of this shit.

 

I didn't see the story about the pain pills, though I did know about the other two.

 

It's rather interesting how most of our presidents turn out to be rather large scumbags when viewed under the public's eye.

[Guest Some Guy]

That is why EVERYBOSY GOT A TAX CUT!!!!!!!!

 

Not really.

 

Lower tax brackets got a negligable sum, if anything.

 

Your Marxist pathologies are getting really old, really fast.

 

Cite your source that my arguments are Marxist in nature.

 

That's bullshit and inflammitory; it could even be considered flame-baiting.

Everyone who pays taxes got a tax cut under Bush's plan. that's truth and you admited it. Whether you think they got enough is imaterial.

 

Your constant malipulation of the truth when it comes to taxes and you making it pretty clear that you haet wealthy people.

That may have been over the line, you accused me of being on the Religious Right and never apoligized for that. Fair is fair. AN eye for an eye!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Your constant malipulation of the truth when it comes to taxes and you making it pretty clear that you haet wealthy people.

That may have been over the line, you accused me of being on the Religious Right and never apoligized for that. Fair is fair. AN eye for an eye!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!

 

Hate, envy, same thing

 

I actually meant to apologize for the Religious Right thing, but I was posting that while running out the door to this retarded class in which I'm writing these replies. So, it's official...

 

 

I apologize for my Religous Right comment

 

Happy?!?