Guest treble charged Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Bret beat Shawn in a Ladder match, too, for the IC title. It's available on a Coliseum video (I can't remember the name right now). He also beat him at Survivor Series '92 with the Sharpshooter. EDIT: Yeah, what Choken said. Damn this slow computer.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 it was on the MOST Unusual Matches...EVER! Video...
Guest Respect The 'Taker Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Well don't forget Survivor Series 1992 and the ladder match...I don't recall a Cage match... I was however refering to life in General...Shawn has won the battle in his life and Bret hasn't... Of course, my head said "ladder match" my hands typed "cage match", my bad. Old age is getting to me, all goes downhill after you hit 18.... Heh, not. I misinterpreted the question as well, in terms of life, the only real retribution Bret had was watching Shawn break his back on the casket at Royal Rumble 1998. However, seeing HBK back in the ring these days just proves it wasn't enough to keep him out forever.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Exactly...It only made Shawn look better in terms of his on-screen character...He looked like the bigger man fighting in extreme pain and passing the torch to Austin...
LaParkaYourCar Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 it was on the MOST Unusual Matches...EVER! Video... I have that video! The ladder match is the only good match on there. Here's the matches on it: HBK Vs. Bret Hart Ladder Match 123 Kid Vs. Razor Ramon rematch for the money The Headshrinkers, Bastion Booger, & Bam Bam Bigelow Vs. The Bushwhackers & Men on a Mission (all four dressed as Doink) HBK Vs. Jim Duggan (Lumberjack Match) I can't remember if there's anymore on it.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Yeah...I have that to...pretty amusing tape 10 years later though... Shawn and Duggan wasn't that bad...Mainly for Shawn's heelish actions and Perfect's attack...
Guest Shanghai Kid Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 If Shawn and Duggan wasn't bad, than that alone should prove Shawn's a good worker.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 It wasn't a Work rate fest...but merely Sportz Entertainment with great Heel mannerism from Shawn, an motivated Duggan and great stuff from Perfect on the outside...
Guest El Satanico Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 argh no where did he say "Shawn Michaels vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan was a good wrestling match". Saying a match in WWF was good doesn't automatically mean it was good because of the wrestling. People call Rock vs. Hogan a great match, but does that mean Rock is the greatest wrestler to ever lace up the boots?
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Let's not get into THAT debate...We already have an out of control HBK debate...
Guest El Satanico Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Yes, yes I know...I shouldn't have encouraged him here.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Good...Thank You...You are very much welcome to start a thread about that let's just keep it else where...Here we wanna talk about Bret's Bitterness...
Guest EdwardKnoxII Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 <<Shawn trained and honed the skills of Brian Kendrick Bret trained and honed the skils of....Andrew "Test" Martin>> But, didn't Bret also help train Ken Sharmrock. I remember reading that somewhere when Sharmrock first came to the WWF.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Maybe but Still Shawn -> Kendrick and Am. Dragon > Bret -> Test and Shamrock....
Guest Respect The 'Taker Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 I vote for Shanghai Kid to just shut the hell up and get over his argument about Shawny. Man, BASTION BOOGER IS ON THAT TAPE!?!?! Oh god, he ruled...in a John Tenta kinda way.. Fat guys rule. UYI
JN News Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Bret beat Shawn at SS 92. He also beat HBK in at ladder match for the IC Title. He also beat Shawn in a Cage match on Collosium Video's Best of Bret Hart tape.
Guest Respect The 'Taker Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 JN, is that the match where Shawn gets his foot caught on the cage and dangles helplessly while Bret escapes? If so, i've seen that one.
cawthon777 Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Another thing that annoys me here is...Has Bret done anything since that brief WWA Stint? I was wondering...how is he staying active in Wrestling? I haven't heard of him training or running Stampede or anything... Not only did he lose his career thanks to Shawn but Shawn also trained a big part of the WWE future or the next smark darlings... That's one way to look at it. It's the wrong way, but it's a way. Bret has trained COUNTLESS past and current WWE stars. Right off the top of my head - Test, Edge, Christian, Shamrock, and Blackman trained together at the Dungeon in 97. I read an interview Test did a while back for a magazine where he made the Hart Home sound like OVW, like the WWF would send guys there all the time to get the training they needed to have an on-camera role. And Bret was made out to be the man in charge of it all. Think of it as a successful and legit version of the Warrior's failed training school. Wow, HBK trained two or three guys that the non-TWA fan is aware of. As far as the Bret-Shawn track record... Beginning with WrestleMania VIII and Bret winning the IC title, he beat Shawn just about every other day for 6 months straight (including the ladder match in Portland, ME in July of 92). Then he beat him again at Survivor Series. Then they had another feud after Lawler had to deal with his rape charges in the fall of 93. Bret beat him many more times then, including the cage match in Utica, NY on December 1, 93. Shawn was Bret's whipping boy until WrestleMania XII. There were triple threat matches involving the two in 97 - with both Bret and Shawn as the reinging champion. Several were decided by one man scoring the pin on the other, including Shawn holding onto the strap against Bret and Sid at Skydome. Saying Shawn had the upper hand in their rivalry is garbage.
The Dames Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Choken, you also have to look at it this way. When HBK was training these guys, '98 - 2001 or so, it was due to him not being able to work and trying to do SOMETHING to stay in this business. Bret, in the meantime was either still working ('til the end of 2000), suffering through concussions and family tragedies and a family civil war. Where was the time to train...especially since his brothers, who are trainers as well, weren't getting along at the time. At least Bret trained guys while he was still in the WWF AND on top. Also, this may sound silly, but although HBK originally trained Am Dragon, he was later trained by William Regal and Dragon's style is mostly Regal-esque, while Spanky is more the HBK model. I don't see almost any HBK influence on Am Dragon. Dames
Guest Brian Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Yeah, American Dragon broke out after his Memphis stint. Bret has a chance to work with his nephews.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Don't get all hostile on me...Here...I simply didn't know he also trained edge, Blackman and Christian... O.K once again...I wasn't refering to IN RING battles...I was refering to in Life, Shawn has beaten Bret...That's the real war...
Guest pappajacks Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 I wasn't refering to IN RING battles...I was refering to in Life, Shawn has beaten Bret...That's the real war... I disagree with you Choken One. Respect from your peers (or former peers) is also a very important aspect of life. Bret is still respected by many active and former wrestlers. Many talk highly of him, not only as a wrestler, but as a human being. Outside from his Klic friends, who else respects Shawn?
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Respect is Bull shit... Bret has become an Broken Down Bitter Old Man Shawn is still living the life of a Super star...
cawthon777 Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Respect is Bull shit... Bret has become an Broken Down Bitter Old Man Shawn is still living the life of a Super star... Okay, I'll put it like this. Both men are two of the most respected today. That's a given. Bret has paved the way and helped train those like the Rock, Edge, Test, and Christian while the Hart name is sinomamous with names like Roddy Piper, Brian Pillman, the British Bulldogs, Curt Hennig, Rick Martel, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, and Chris Jericho. On the other hand, Shawn's offense and charisma can be seen in current stars like the Hardy Boyz and Rob Van Dam. So both men have done a lot for for the industry. You can't take that away from them. But Shawn's still a back-stabbing, can't-find-my-smile, won't-lay-down-for-any-man, won't-job-my-title, will-only-come-back-to-put-over-my-best-friend shill.
Guest Choken One Posted February 20, 2003 Report Posted February 20, 2003 Umm...I'd say It's STU Hart that made those guys not Bret... and bottom line... Shawn has beaten Bret in Life post Montreal...It's undebatable...
Guest Mulatto Heat Posted February 21, 2003 Report Posted February 21, 2003 Good Lord, is it some sort of competition that I'm not aware of? Bret is retired and doesn't want to appear on TV unless it's for a proper sendoff. Shawn prances around on TV with his Jesus shirts, is an obvious shell of his former self, and is hardly a draw on the sparse RAW brand. VERY impressive.
Guest Brian Posted February 21, 2003 Report Posted February 21, 2003 Of course respect is overrated for Shawn. A man who's done what he's done in a lifetime must have very little respect for himself.
cawthon777 Posted February 21, 2003 Report Posted February 21, 2003 Umm...I'd say It's STU Hart that made those guys not Bret... I said the Hart name, I didn't specify Bret.
Guest Brian Posted February 21, 2003 Report Posted February 21, 2003 And Michaels wasn't the head trainer at his camps.
LaParkaYourCar Posted February 21, 2003 Report Posted February 21, 2003 Why are we even having an argument about how many guys they trained? It's not like a wrestler HAS to train someone after he retires.
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