The Official 2003 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Guest Ripper]

Jason Collins, Joe Johnson and Ira Newble.

 

3 players that I just can't understand what the hell coachs are so in love with these guys for..I mean, Aaron Williams gives you 10 times the energy and 10 times the offensive ability and 10 times the rebounding that Collins does. Mutumbo plays better than collins...Rogers plays better than Collins, hell, Brian Scalabrene plays better than Jason Collins. Yet he CONTINUES to eat up playing time getting no rebounds, no blocks, no points and lots of fouls and stepping out of the way on guard penetrations. I just don't get it.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

All the Nets needed was for Martin to put a body on Duncan and grab that rebound.

 

Fundamentals...

[Guest Ripper]

Can't argue with that.

 

What I don't get...Toni Parker scored 26 points while taking 21 shots...yet he is getting celebrated like he had a awsome game. (those airballs and missed freethrows in crunch time almost cost the Spurs the game) but when Kobe had 35 pts on 30 shots they were saying what a crappy game he was having.

 

Not saying that Kobe should have been celebrated, but it just seems that they are really reaching for making some stars in this finals. 26 pts on 21 shots=not a very good game.

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

There’s more to having a good game than just the points you score. Parker played great when they needed him to and he shut Jason Kidd down throughout the game. The kid just turned 21, is in his 2nd year, is playing in the finals and is playing with a lot of pressure against an established superstar that is suppose to be his replacement next season. I’d say the kid is playing great and he was a major reason why the Spurs are 2 games away from winning their 2nd championship.

[Guest Ripper]

Toni Parker played like crap when they needed him. At the begaining of the 4th quarter he was on fire, no doubt... But as the minutes ticked away and crunch time came through, it was kidd picking apart the Spurs defense as he got by Parker, and it was parker hoisting up bad shots and missing freethrows. Not saying he didn't have a great game, but I think they are just trying to create a new guy to cheer since the lakers aren't there. The guy to cheer is still standing in the middle and his ownership of the boards is what put the Spurs over the top.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Jason Collins had a good series against Detroit but he was playing a 6'9 Ben Wallace. Against someone with any offensive skill, he gets assaulted. I agree, throw Williams in there.

 

And Parker had a great game considering he's in his second year and all. Jason Kidd however, had an awful game and continues to show why he will never be in Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson's league. They could take over in every way. He can't, especially on offensive where he is a monsterous liablitity. Spurs would do well to keep Parker in my opinion, he fits the team better.

[Gert T 0]

There’s more to having a good game than just the points you score. Parker played great when they needed him to and he shut Jason Kidd down throughout the game. The kid just turned 21, is in his 2nd year, is playing in the finals and is playing with a lot of pressure against an established superstar that is suppose to be his replacement next season. I’d say the kid is playing great and he was a major reason why the Spurs are 2 games away from winning their 2nd championship.

That pretty much covers it all, and yes Parker would be a better fit in SA next year because that means they can make a run at Jermaine O'Neal.

[Guest Ripper]

Jason Kidd has been so unfairly bashed in these finals it has been embarassing. Toni Parker comes off 2 screens, wide open at the arc and the other New Jersey defender is nowhere to be found(usually Mutumbo or Collins). Walton: "Tony Parker is flying by Jason Kidd at will...Kidd has to play some D."

 

The PROBLEM is that it doesn't appear that the Nets know what defense they are playing. Wing guys like Jefferson and Kittles are in man while Mutumbo, Collins and Martin are slinking back like they are playing zone. Greg Popovich noticed this last game and started running a high screen and roll with Duncan or Robinson or Rose and Parker. When the big man set the screen on kidd, there was no one there to switch on Parker which left him with open shots.

 

Sure, I played a lot of ball in my life and look at things more as a player when watching than a casual viewer, but there is no way that Bill fucking Walton and Tom Tolbert don't see the exact same thing that I, greg Popvich and the rest of the basketball knowledgeable world sees. But they were playing it up like Parker was creating his own shot, shaking Kidd out of his shoes and doing it all himself. They are trying to create a star and it is annoying to me.

 

At the end of the day, Kidd had 12 pts on 6-19 shooting, and 10 assist. And if someone had blocked out Duncan on the second third Tony Parker missed freethrow in the last 90 seconds, the Nets had a chance to tie or win the game.

 

Parker had a GREAT game (despite the 9-21 shooting that is getting lauded like the best shooting night in the history of the game) with his 26 points and 6 assist, but was nowhere to be found at the end of the game. I do think it gave him a dangerous amount of confidence that will make him unstoppable in game 4.

 

Place all the blame they want on Kidd, until Byron Scott stops being so damn stubborn and Richard Jefferson does SOMETHING...ANYTHING...the nets won't win...even though they almost did it the other night.

[Guest Tony149]

Jason Kidd has been so unfairly bashed in these finals it has been embarassing.

I think it has to do with the fact many thought Kidd would outplay Parker. Outside of game 2, it's been the other way around; and Parker's speed is helping.

 

I happened to catch the 4th quarter of game 3 on NBA TV late last night, and IIRC Kidd only scored 2 points. It didn't look like he was "picking apart" the Spurs' D.

 

And the difference between Parker's 9-21 game and Kobe's shot selection: Kobe basically shoots the ball no matter what; double-team, triple-team, from half-court -- okay, he doesn't do the last one, but you get the idea.

[Guest Ripper]

Jason Kidd has been so unfairly bashed in these finals it has been embarassing.

I think it has to do with the fact many thought Kidd would outplay Parker. Outside of game 2, it's been the other way around; and Parker's speed is helping.

 

I happened to catch the 4th quarter of game 3 on NBA TV late last night, and IIRC Kidd only scored 2 points. It didn't look like he was "picking apart" the Spurs' D.

 

And the difference between Parker's 9-21 game and Kobe's shot selection: Kobe basically shoots the ball no matter what; double-team, triple-team, from half-court -- okay, he doesn't do the last one, but you get the idea.

Kidd had 2 points, 3 rebounds a couple of steals and 4 assist and no turnovers in the 4th quarter. It ain't all scoring.

 

Parker took PLENTY of HORRID shots, but he was clutch at knocking down the ones he should have hit. I give him that.

[Guest razazteca]

Is it just me or what but I never seen Jason Kidd as an offensive threat ever. I see Kidd as more of a Point Guard in the vein of John Stockton pass the ball around to the open player for the easy points and on occassion go for a lay up or outside shot. I think expecting Jason Kidd to become the primary scorer is a huge coaching mistake. Jason Kidd is not a natural big points player, he always thinks pass then shoot, not the other way around, forcing him to do so is a big mastake.

 

As for Toni Parker the Spurs expect him to score in double digits in every game as the media has been playing up the stat that when Parker scores 20+ point the Spurs win the game.

 

Comparing the two players it is easy to see that their games are different. In nearly every game Kidd gets 10+ assist while Parker is lucky if he gets half that.

[Guest goodhelmet]

the reason tony parker has less assists than kidd is because of the way the spurs run their offense. in the half court set, the ball is supposed to touch tim's hands and once he draws the double, triple, or quadruple team, he pitches it out. that is why duncan has as many assists in the finals as parker if parker gets an assist, it is usually off the fast break or after the ball gets swung around the perimeter after going through timvp.

 

as for who has played better, besides kidd's 30 point game, parker has clearly held his own. the reason people pimp parker is because he is a 2nd year point guard who is 50 pounds (exaggeration?) lighter and 3 inches shorter than kidd, and he is holding his own and shooting better than kidd. kidd is supposed to be an mvp candidate and the heart and soul of the east. when he has shitty games against an "inferior" guard then that guard should get credit for having a good playoff series.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Well put goodhelmet. At the end of the day, Jason Kidd was supposed to be having an MVP series. He's not. Tony Parker was supposed to be outclassed amd embarassed. He hasn't been. Thats why people are saying he's having a great series. Yes, a lot of his offense is open j's. But his defense is all him being every bit as fast as Jason Kidd and Kidd having trouble adjusting to it. And hell if Kidd could HIT his open js, stuff wouldn't look near as lopsided.

 

No Tony Parker has not manhandled Kidd. But he has hung with him and thats more than enough to beat a limited Nets team.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

As a general rule, if Bill Walton says something is happening, anything but that is happening.

 

If Walton says he saw a UFO, I say it could have been light, a star, light reflecting off gas, a hallucination, a weather balloon, or a frisbee, but I know it aint a fuckin UFO.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

So far Tim Duncan and Jason Kidd have played the greatest games in finals history, according to Walton.

 

Maybe the most impressive thing about the Spurs is the ability to adjust their offensive or defensive sets based on what the other team is doing.

[Guest razazteca]

Mutombo came in the game early and has made a difference as the Spurs cannot get the easy dump off pass to Robinson for the dunk. Maybe Bryon Scott is using his brain after all.

[Guest Flyboy]

That dunk by Richard Jefferson was INSANE. THROW IT DOWN~! I just marked out.

[Guest godthedog]

spurs lost, but oh well. great game.

[Guest Human Fly]

It may not be the best basketball to watch, but it is still exciting.

 

NJ has to win the next game to have a chance to win this thing.

[Guest Flyboy]

NJ has to win the next game to have a chance to win this thing.

I agree. God, I hope the Spurs don't win.

[Guest Tony149]

Congratulations to the Nets. When they lose the next two, at least they can now say they put up a fight.

[Guest Flyboy]

Tony may now Lmb. Go ahead.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

I question why Manu was taking that shot. Great play drawn up but he just shouldn't have been shooting it. That Kerr kid, I hear he has a decent stroke, might wanna give him a shot at it.

 

Spurs win this game if Popovich KEEPS PARKER'S ASS ON THE BENCH. Good Lord. Speedy Claxton, a guy I've criticized a lot admittedly came in and played his ass off and his reward was rotting at the end of the bench while Parker bricked/refused to shoot everything.

 

In the same sense, I'm happy for the Nets. I genuinly like both teams and as long as the Lakers and Mavs stay the hell away from the title, I shall be a content fan.

[Guest goodhelmet]

I question why Manu was taking that shot. Great play drawn up but he just shouldn't have been shooting it. That Kerr kid, I hear he has a decent stroke, might wanna give him a shot at it.

 

Spurs win this game if Popovich KEEPS PARKER'S ASS ON THE BENCH. Good Lord. Speedy Claxton, a guy I've criticized a lot admittedly came in and played his ass off and his reward was rotting at the end of the bench while Parker bricked/refused to shoot everything.

I agree with this portion of your post. my sister and i were asking ourselves the exact same thing. parker had a very off night. let him think it through on the bench and come back and prove something in game 5. instead, claxton and manu were benched after reviving a slow, uninspired team.

 

now, the nets got the win and that is ok but 29% shooting from the opposite team and you win by one??? they must be scared shitless because they won't get the ref calls next time. even the announcers mentioned how horrible the officiating was tonight.

 

another sidenote- kenyon martin is a useless piece of shit that does not deserve a ring, a job or the honor of tasting tim duncan's sweat. when the chips were down, he showed he was a classless human being who has no composure, no dignity and no sportsmanship. an asshole if i had ever seen one.

[Guest godthedog]

parker just choked tonight. he ain't a star player yet, & the whole kidd/parker dynamic is blown way out of proportion.

 

having ginobili take the shot seemed like a pretty logical move. he was pretty damn hot that whole quarter.

[Guest razazteca]

Tony Parker should of never played in the 4th Quarter, he went 1-13 in the game, why play him just for defense? Claxton or Kerr should of split time in the 4th Quarter as the team needed points in the worst way. And why was the Spurs all of a sudden afraid to go after rebounds in the final minutes of the game, DAMN YOU REFs.

 

Well at least the Spurs can win the championship on their home court..............it makes more compelling tv.

[Guest Flyboy]

another sidenote- kenyon martin is a useless piece of shit that does not deserve a ring, a job or the honor of tasting tim duncan's sweat. when the chips were down, he showed he was a classless human being who has no composure, no dignity and no sportsmanship. an asshole if i had ever seen one.

You must be referring to when Duncan tried to help him up and he aggressively declined. Eh, yeah it wasn't sportsman-like, but.. *shrugs* I like K-Mart. I like him better than Duncan even though he isn't nearly at his level yet. He entertains me.

[Guest goodhelmet]

because you like everything that is wrong with basketball.

 

seriously, kmart is the perfect example of someone the nba is desperately trying to get over as a superstar when he really i still in the 'pretty good' category.

 

that was definitely the most obvious example but you can tell in his attitude and his demeanor that he is frustrated with the ref's calls because he is no match for duncan. his coach had to complain about the refs to get the guy respect but respect is earned. it is not given to you. plus, the guy had duncanesque numbers from the free throw line!

[Guest Tony149]

another sidenote- kenyon martin is a useless piece of shit that does not deserve a ring, a job or the honor of tasting tim duncan's sweat. when the chips were down, he showed he was a classless human being who has no composure, no dignity and no sportsmanship. an asshole if i had ever seen one.

You must be referring to when Duncan tried to help him up and he aggressively declined. Eh, yeah it wasn't sportsman-like, but.. *shrugs* I like K-Mart. I like him better than Duncan even though he isn't nearly at his level yet. He entertains me.

When the Nets blew the 15 point lead, a lot of the Nets started getting pissy -- Rodgers, Martin, and Mutumbo (Sp?).

 

Goodhelmet made a great point. The fact the Spurs shoot like shit and they (NJ) only wins by one -- that's something for them to think about. A lot of talk was made about the Spurs' ability to blow leads...but NJ has blow 2 big leads, and were lucky to win both.

 

I also don't think they should of put Parker back in; Pop said they took Speedy out because he was getting tired. While I understand that, and his reasoning for putting Parker back in, I would of rather seen Kerr go in.

 

And what the hell is Lmb? Was that in reference to Parker or me?

[Guest Flyboy]

because you like everything that is wrong with basketball.

 

My favorite player is Tracy McGrady. I like K-Mart over Duncan simply because he entertains me more than Duncan even though I know Duncan is light years beyond K-Mart.

 

seriously, kmart is the perfect example of someone the nba is desperately trying to get over as a superstar when he really i still in the 'pretty good' category.

 

Yes and no. He's a good player.. a really good player and in the future he's only going to get better. We know that. Defensively he's been great against the league's MVP. After 3 blocks from Duncan, K-Mart STILL got the rebound and the ball. He wanted it more than Duncan.

 

that was definitely the most obvious example but you can tell in his attitude and his demeanor that he is frustrated with the ref's calls because he is no match for duncan.

 

He held his own against Duncan tonight and he's been doing it for most of the series.

 

plus, the guy had duncanesque numbers from the free throw line!

 

He hit the last two he shot that counted the most (giving the Nets a 3-point lead). He had an off night from the line. That not common from anyone, even if you're the best free throw shooter in the league.