Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I have heard you guys say this for ever now and I need some explaining. What's the deal with all the "fake belt crap? It's the wCw belt. Yeah, they took it away. But realized thier stupidity and brought it back. That belt's got alot of history from several old federations and several ledgends. So just because they brought it back after killing it and gave it to HHH doesn't mean the belt is any less of a belt. If anything that belt has more history then the WWE belt. But I respect both belts. They are both very credible IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 28, 2003 We call it the fake belt cause they just gave it to Hunter. How can you have any presitge (sp) on a belt that they just throw on a guy who uses backstage pull for everything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I have heard you guys say this for ever now and I need some explaining. What's the deal with all the "fake belt crap? It's the wCw belt. Yeah, they took it away. But realized thier stupidity and brought it back. That belt's got alot of history from several old federations and several ledgends. So just because they brought it back after killing it and gave it to HHH doesn't mean the belt is any less of a belt. If anything that belt has more history then the WWE belt. But I respect both belts. They are both very credible IMO. The WCW Title's lineage is NOT in the World Belt. It's lineage is in the WWE Title that Brock Lesnar holds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I have heard you guys say this for ever now and I need some explaining. What's the deal with all the "fake belt crap? It's the wCw belt. Yeah, they took it away. But realized thier stupidity and brought it back. That belt's got alot of history from several old federations and several ledgends. So just because they brought it back after killing it and gave it to HHH doesn't mean the belt is any less of a belt. If anything that belt has more history then the WWE belt. But I respect both belts. They are both very credible IMO. The WCW Title's lineage is NOT in the World Belt. It's lineage is in the WWE Title that Brock Lesnar holds I thought after they brought the wCw belt back they stopped calling the WWE belt unified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Yeah, that's most important. Sure it's the WCW belt, but it's not the WCW belt They just took something fans recognized and put it on Mr. Stephanie McMahon. If they'd have done it a better way and used a new belt I think most people wouldn't have a problem with it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted April 28, 2003 It's not the WCW Title. The WCW Title is dead. It's lineage is in the WWE Title that Brock Lesnar currently holds. The World title, which Triple H holds, began on September 2nd, 2002. It has the lineage of the I-C title, the US title, the Euro title, the Hardcore and the National Title Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The Raw belt is the World Heavyweight Title, the letters WWE don't even appear anywhere near it. They dropped the undisputed crap after the big gold belt appeared on Raw. Which they should have dropped a long fuckin time ago. I got sick of hearing that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Cool, thanks for the explanations. I didn't quite take it that way but I understand now. It is fake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creativename Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I thought after they brought the wCw belt back they stopped calling the WWE belt unified. That doesn 't matter when discussing the lineage of the WCW belt. After the titles were unified, that was it--the WCW belt was absorbed into the WWE title that Brock now has. The Raw title may be the WCW physical belt, but it is not the WCW title. Also, the stuff about the WCW belt having the old-school NWA lineage is also crap. It never had that; that stuff was just propaganda by WCW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I have heard you guys say this for ever now and I need some explaining. What's the deal with all the "fake belt crap? It's the wCw belt. Yeah, they took it away. But realized thier stupidity and brought it back. That belt's got alot of history from several old federations and several ledgends. So just because they brought it back after killing it and gave it to HHH doesn't mean the belt is any less of a belt. If anything that belt has more history then the WWE belt. But I respect both belts. They are both very credible IMO. The WCW Title's lineage is NOT in the World Belt. It's lineage is in the WWE Title that Brock Lesnar holds I thought after they brought the wCw belt back they stopped calling the WWE belt unified. No. It's what they should have done, but they didn't. Here's what happened. At Vengeance 2001 Chris Jericho unifies the WCW (World) & WWF Titles. After Summerslam, Undisputed Champion Brock Lesnar takes the belt to Smackdown. He can still show up on RAW. He just chooses not to. In response, Bischoff creates his own World Title from scratch and gives it to HHH. He also basically bars the Undisputed Champion from showing up on RAW from now on. The new World Title just happens to be the same physical belt as the WCW title. I would assume that they just liked design, but being the WWF it is probably more likely that they did plan to split the Undisputed Title again but forgot to actually do it. On Smackdown, the Undisputed Title is renamed the WWE Championship. At No Mercy 2002, the World Title is merged with the IC Championship, which had previously been united with the US, Hardcore & European Titles. As a summary, WWE Championship = Undisputed Championship World Championship = Intercontinental Championship Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nevermortal Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... And even further down in the shitter in 2000 when the title changes hands every week. And I'm not even going to name off some of the men who've held it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 28, 2003 "In response, Bischoff creates his own World Title from scratch and gives it to HHH. He also basically bars the Undisputed Champion from showing up on RAW from now on." Er...no. I don't remember that second part. In fact, I was wondering if when Lesnar lost the title we'd have a conflict of who the "real" champ was. Was never even addressed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... I wasn't really arguing. I didn't realize that the WWE did it the way Kahran and bob explained it, but yeah it'll help the belt once Nash gets it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nevermortal Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... I wasn't really arguing. I didn't realize that the WWE did it the way Kahran and bob explained it, but yeah it'll help the belt once Nash gets it! Yes, because as we all know, a Nash Title Reign = Instant Credibility. This is the same guy who lost his title to a fingerpoke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The finger poke was great because it was part of a great story line. Something the WWE has lost sight of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The Raw belt is the World Heavyweight Title, the letters WWE don't even appear anywhere near it. Incorrect, YNA. The Big Gold Belt that HHH has isn't even the same title that Bischoff awarded him months ago. It was redone and if you take a good look at it, the WWE logo is at the top of it. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The finger poke was great because it was part of a great story line. Something the WWE has lost sight of. It was such a great storyline that it completely killed WCW. That's some storyline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nevermortal Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The finger poke was great because it was part of a great story line. Something the WWE has lost sight of. It was such a great storyline that it completely killed WCW. That's some storyline Ranks right up there with: "Vince Russo, WCW Champion" "David Arquette, WCW Champion" "Kevin Nash & Macho Man bathe each other in shit prior to their 'epic' title encounter" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EternallyLazy Report post Posted April 28, 2003 In my opinion, the entire notion of arguing a worked/fake pro wrestling title lineage is pretty pointless and stupid, and it reminds me of a bunch of star trek geeks arguing over episode numbers of the original series. ALOT of people, including Scott Keith, complained about the RAW title being "fake" which always gets a laugh out of me, because let's face it... these supposed "world titles" aren't even real titles to begin with. They're props. Yes, it means alot to hold one, like an award you are given to show the company has faith in you, but NOTHING more. And yes, the title was handed to HHH... but the IC title was handed to Pat Patterson technically and no one cares about that. It's professional wrestling... sometimes I think we all try to make it seem a little too legitimate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mach7 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 And yes, the title was handed to HHH... but the IC title was handed to Pat Patterson technically and no one cares about that. It's professional wrestling... sometimes I think we all try to make it seem a little too legitimate *pays homage to EternallyLazy* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The IC Title was also involved in some of the most famous matches and feuds in the company's history. The World Title's most famous moments were the Necrophilia angle and the terrible Steiner matches. Not exactly a way to get people to care about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EternallyLazy Report post Posted April 28, 2003 And yes, the title was handed to HHH... but the IC title was handed to Pat Patterson technically and no one cares about that. It's professional wrestling... sometimes I think we all try to make it seem a little too legitimate *pays homage to EternallyLazy* *takes a bow* Thank you... thank you. No autographs, please... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... The belt HHH currently is the champion of has a lineage of the great other fake gold belt from WCW past..........the International World Title which Sting and Vader were champions of. Remember when there was a big confusion of who was the real champion back in the early 90s when Flair lost to IWGP champion. Funny thing the fake belt Sting had was bigger than the belt Flair had when they had a unification match at Clash of Champions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted April 28, 2003 Why are we arguing the WCW title history? I mean hell, it all went down the shitter during that whole International World Title Business.... The belt HHH currently is the champion of has a lineage of the great other fake gold belt from WCW past..........the International World Title which Sting and Vader were champions of. Remember when there was a big confusion of who was the real champion back in the early 90s when Flair lost to IWGP champion. Funny thing the fake belt Sting had was bigger than the belt Flair had when they had a unification match at Clash of Champions. That is actually in Brock's title too. They just happened to keep the same belt for the new WCW Undisputed Championship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 isn't it actually Ric Flair's old WCW belt he owned? I know David Flair was wandering around with the belt too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stunt Granny Report post Posted April 28, 2003 I always assumed that they just split the lineage of the Undisputed title, giving WWE Linage to Smackdown, and WCW Lineage to Raw. Sounds simple to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2003 The Raw belt is the World Heavyweight Title, the letters WWE don't even appear anywhere near it. Incorrect, YNA. The Big Gold Belt that HHH has isn't even the same title that Bischoff awarded him months ago. It was redone and if you take a good look at it, the WWE logo is at the top of it. Dames Ah, that's why he had a new graphic for Backlash. The Title lost all it's credibility way before HHH was given it anyway. Russo, Arquette...Booker and Angle trading the belt so darn quickly during the InVasion. Jericho and HHH's WM feud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Kablam Report post Posted April 28, 2003 In my opinion, the entire notion of arguing a worked/fake pro wrestling title lineage is pretty pointless and stupid, and it reminds me of a bunch of star trek geeks arguing over episode numbers of the original series. ALOT of people, including Scott Keith, complained about the RAW title being "fake" which always gets a laugh out of me, because let's face it... these supposed "world titles" aren't even real titles to begin with. They're props. Yes, it means alot to hold one, like an award you are given to show the company has faith in you, but NOTHING more. And yes, the title was handed to HHH... but the IC title was handed to Pat Patterson technically and no one cares about that. It's professional wrestling... sometimes I think we all try to make it seem a little too legitimate It's true that they are props, but a prop is only important if you treat it as such. It's an actors job to make the audience believe the prop, and to give said prop value. only then can a prop be truly effective, otherwise it's just a hunk of meytal, which is what Vince Russo treated it as. My first reaction is to agree with you, trhat lineage arguments are useless and stupid, but this is the belt that was held by Ric Flair and Vader (and for a short while Chris Benoit). My point is that these are men who, after long time got what they deserved because their characters had evolved to the point where they deserved such an accolade. If you read Mick Foley's book (I think the second one) there's a chapter entitled "Daddy Got the Belt" in which Mick explains what it means to "win" a title. It's a great section, and I fully believe it. Also, let's face it, wrestling isn't taken seriously by the public, if wrestling fans tink it's a joke, then we're in trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Kablam Report post Posted April 28, 2003 And yes, the title was handed to HHH... but the IC title was handed to Pat Patterson technically and no one cares about that. It's professional wrestling... sometimes I think we all try to make it seem a little too legitimate *pays homage to EternallyLazy* what are you talking about. Patterson won it in an off shore tournament. What? What? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
