The new wwe 'style'

[Guest jm29195]

In response to the Dr.Death thread....

 

I've got a feeling that Dr.Death and his technical repertoire might be the ideal wrestler that WWE is looking for in relation to their 'slowing down' of the wwe style- I mean he still has all the tools but has probably slowed down due to age and injuries. I wonder if this modification of style was created to reduce the injuries as has been officially stated or is intended just as a way to accomodate all the useless has-beens who are filling up the uppercard with their crappy matches?

[Guest Goodear]

You know with all this talk of slowing down wrestlers I would just like to point out that 'slower' does not equate to 'worse'. Getting back to holds and away from German suplexes is a good idea, especially when the later seems to get passed out like candy on occasion. Sure, it will mean more chinlocks from the people that can't work very well but I think we all figured out who those people were a while back regardless. The good workers will adapt and the others won't.

[Guest nikowwf]

Edge is hurt and out a year, Angle is hurt but coming back early cause he's nuts, Benoit generally wrestles 6 months, misses 6 months, Rey misses 1 out of every 3 months, Austin is retired with a neck injury, and most recently Chavo is out 6 months.

 

I think slowing down a little might not be just politically motivated.

 

niko

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

Good Mat Wrestling - Systematic simulation of a real fight with body parts and willpower increasing/decreasing as the fight goes on. Spots are sprinkled throughout the match to keep the crowd on edge and it climaxes with one final big spot (which may or may not be a finisher) to pop the crowd and send them home pissed or happy.

 

BAD MAT WRESTLING - 8 1/2 minute armbars with "methodical" pacing, stalling, and lots of lying on the mat "selling" (i.e. just lying there collecting your salary).

 

Unfortunately we have the latter to eagerly anticipate.

 

ATTITUDE - COME GET BORED

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

I thik niko may have a point.

[LooseCannon25 0]

To be honest this might be a good thing to slow it down.......i remember in earlier years when a german suplex would finish anyone off or a moonsault. Nowadays, somebody gets 10 germans on them and still kick out. They've gotten away from the realism and its time to go back

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Pop quiz, kids. The following matches pop the crowd and generally get the best reactions:

 

A) Cruiserweight flying and flipping ala Rey, Spanky, Eddy and Kidman.

B) Mindless RAW-ful crap like 3 Minute Warning, Rodney Mack and Maven.

C) Fast paced heavyweight action like Booker T, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar.

D) "Old school stories" ala Hogan, Piper, Undertaker, HHH and Nash.

 

If you answered A or C or both, congrats! Here's a cookie!

 

The WWE has NOTHING going in it's favour right now. Heard that? NOTHING. If they slow down now then they're fucked beyond repair.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Pop quiz, kids. The following matches pop the crowd and generally get the best reactions:

 

A) Cruiserweight flying and flipping ala Rey, Spanky, Eddy and Kidman.

B) Mindless RAW-ful crap like 3 Minute Warning, Rodney Mack and Maven.

C) Fast paced heavyweight action like Booker T, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar.

D) "Old school stories" ala Hogan, Piper, Undertaker, HHH and Nash.

 

If you answered A or C or both, congrats! Here's a cookie!

 

The WWE has NOTHING going in it's favour right now. Heard that? NOTHING. If they slow down now then they're fucked beyond repair.

To be honest....the thing with Hogan and undertaker isnt completely correct cause they both get big pops whenever they're on tv. #2 guys like 3MW and Rodney Mack cna't take ALL of the blame because they're not allowed to do alot of their stuff. The Island Boys (3MW) had a lot of high impact stuff but have been victims of WWE style, and same goes for Rodney MAck. Guys that can be successful with the slower stuff are the guys that can implement psychology in their matches

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

So I can't blame 3 Minute Warning and Rodney Mack for sucking? Riiiiiiiiight........

[LooseCannon25 0]

So I can't blame 3 Minute Warning and Rodney Mack for sucking? Riiiiiiiiight........

I think you're missing the point............3MW and Rodney Mack have good movesets and are impressive, but they're not ALLOWed to do most of their stuff. They're not great by any means, but they're not as terrible as we all think. Trust me i've seen all of them in HWA and OVW

[Guest jm29195]

I realise that slower paced matches can sometimes be decent if correctly 'done' - I believe matches such as Diesel vs Shawn Michaels from IYH 7 and the Vader vs Sting match from GAB 92 are good examples of this style performed correctly. However I think that the sort of style that wwe is thinking of will not be like this and just an even more restrictive version of the wwe style in orederto accomodate for HHH and chums

 

btw does nayone else have any decent examples of good slower paced matches?

[Guest Mole]

So I can't blame 3 Minute Warning and Rodney Mack for sucking? Riiiiiiiiight........

I think you're missing the point............3MW and Rodney Mack have good movesets and are impressive, but they're not ALLOWed to do most of their stuff. They're not great by any means, but they're not as terrible as we all think. Trust me i've seen all of them in HWA and OVW

What can they do? Be MORE sloppy?

[LooseCannon25 0]

So I can't blame 3 Minute Warning and Rodney Mack for sucking? Riiiiiiiiight........

I think you're missing the point............3MW and Rodney Mack have good movesets and are impressive, but they're not ALLOWed to do most of their stuff. They're not great by any means, but they're not as terrible as we all think. Trust me i've seen all of them in HWA and OVW

What can they do? Be MORE sloppy?

they ARe sloppy, but who isnt? Booker T? Jericho? RVD? I'm just syaing they can be more exciting to watch when they're not restricted......high flying big boys is impressive to see

[Guest godthedog]

I realise that slower paced matches can sometimes be decent if correctly 'done' - I believe matches such as Diesel vs Shawn Michaels from IYH 7 and the Vader vs Sting match from GAB 92 are good examples of this style performed correctly. However I think that the sort of style that wwe is thinking of will not be like this and just an even more restrictive version of the wwe style in orederto accomodate for HHH and chums

 

btw does nayone else have any decent examples of good slower paced matches?

so, what you're saying is slower paced matches are good if there's at least one guy killing himself in the ring?

[Guest jm29195]

Oh yeah, I just realised that- Micahels and Sting were bumping machines in those matches, well how about Hart vs Taker form 1 Night Only or Midnight Express vs Southen Boys form GAB 1990

 

I'm just thinking that the WWE version of slowing things down will lead to matches like Rock vs Taker from No Way Out 2002, Austin vs Taker from Backlash 2002 or Taker vs HHH from KOTR 2002...hmmm notice a common theme?....

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Actually, I agree with slowing things down a tad. Like LooseCannon said, there's no realism anymore. It's like who can dish out the most suplexes and stuff. I mean Benoit and Angle are especially guilty of this. I've been watching some of Steamboat's stuff recently, and I noticed what a nice moveset he had. It was high impact enough that it could put someone down, but not too high impact that it was rediculous. Plus Steamer knew when the timing was right to do each move. I think that's the key factor that WWE lacks, they don't teach their kids how to make the moves mean something and as a result, slowing it down means dumbing it down. I mean, I'm all for back to the fundamentals and stuff, but not when the fundamentals involve Sean O'Haire punching Rikishi ad nauseam for a PPV matchup.

Also, WWE needs to teach their kids how to develope a moveset. I don't mean that they should load up on suplexes like Benoit (although they should learn to adapt their moves to different situations like Benoit does with his suplexes), but that they should learn WHY theey have a certain move. I've seen the kids coming out of OVW with the most bland movesets I've ever seen. It doesn't help build stars, because you can't distinguish one guy from another, and it doesn't help when all your moves are disjointed and lack a unifying factor. One unifying factor could be that they focus on one body part, such as the kneck. However, the one body part guide isn't the only system. Example: Rey doesn't have the best moveset, but the important thing is that there is a unifying factor in his moves, namely that he uses his body, specifically his legs, to harm his opponent. I can't think of one suplex I've seen Rey throwm except maybe for an armdrag. Instead Rey relies on using his body as a projectile, and using his his legs to fling his opponents down. It all adds up in the end. Plus his style allows the heels to catch him in mid flight and turn it into a move, which ties into mattch building. Similarly, his quick offensive flurries allow the crowd to get behind him when he makes his furied comeback. So Rey has achieved so much, and he doesn't have a tremendous amount of moves outside of the headscissors, an occasional armdrag, and that stupid 619 (don't get me started on it. It pops the crowd, so it serves it's purpose, but it makes his opponent sell for too long. Oh well, one flaw.)

Edited May 29, 2003 by Kid Kablam

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Toshiaki Kawada vs. Gary Albright. A slow-paced match. The biggest bump was a german suplex, which led to Kawada rolling out of the ring. It ended in an Armbar. From the opening bell they established that each single move was important (Albright tried to go for the German suplex right away, Kawada broke free like his life was on the line). THAT'S the key in any wrestling match, giving the moves MEANING. Each submission hold was fought over and applied for a short period as the opponent rushed to get the ropes. No move was easy to get, even a simple vertical suplex was treated as an epic struggle.... and you know what? It worked.

[Guest jm29195]

But I truly do believe that the wwe version of slowed down style will mean exactly that, a slowed down wwe style as is occuring at the moment, nothing like the Steamboat/Flair masterpieces and more like HHH vs Nash form Judgement Day this year

[Guest AndrewTS]

Overusing the Germans is just retarded. When I see that I just groan because it kills the move, making the suplexee look really stupid, and kills the flow of the match.

 

If Benoit nails 4 suplexes in a row, there should be a bridge, and 1, 2, 3. That's it. Finished match. And only on Pay Per View.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Overusing the Germans is just retarded. When I see that I just groan because it kills the move, making the suplexee look really stupid, and kills the flow of the match.

 

If Benoit nails 4 suplexes in a row, there should be a bridge, and 1, 2, 3. That's it. Finished match. And only on Pay Per View.

I agree, but I'm afraid that the German may be beyond repair right now. Benoit needs to focus on his other moves now, for instance his Dragon suplex maybe, until people forget how devalued the German has become. Only then can he bring back the bridge.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

This makes me very cross

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Yeah, jm29 hit the nail right on the head - the slower WWE style won't mean anything other than less moves done at a slow pace. And A LOT of stalling.

[Guest jm29195]

Hey I'm not saying it will definetly happen but I just can't help but wonder given the WWE's inclination towards older and naturally slower workers ie hosses, and the fact that most of the decent slow paced matches I've seen have been froWCW or Japan and the ones WWE have showcased have been just that- boring and slow.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh, it will definitely happen. Jeez, this is the WWE we're talking about. Basically, every match will be JR's comments on Taker vs. Hogan from Judgement Day last year in the Ross Report...

[Guest jm29195]

I prefered Taker's post match interview where he went on about them telling a great story and geting the fans into it, total bs of course!

[Guest EricMM]

I don't think you all are taking into account the WWE booking style.

 

Specifically, 3 minute matches.

 

Specifically, screw jobs.

 

Specificallly, no one actually winning very often in top-card fueds.

 

Specifically, 50% of the roster (maybe) selling... period...

[Guest hosserific]

i think that vince is doing this whole split thing as a test. to see if people like fast action, (smackdown). or big name, storyline oriented wrestling (raw).

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

No, Smackdown and Raw are no longer distinct entities. They are the same, crappy, show. It's been that way for a while now. Smackdown isn't "the wrestling show", Raw isn't "the entertainment show"... They never really were.