Organized Religion

[Guest The Juice]

I put this here in case it got out of hand, like all religious threads.

 

Please start and I'll give my opinios later.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

You know, I was jsut about to, no lie, start a thread on Mormonism. Thus, I will make this a thread on Mormonism.

 

They're crazy, with their Salt Lake City and their Special Mormon Underwear, and no, the Indians are NOT displaced Israelites! Who do I trust, the Apostles, or an American guy named Joe who had a dream that said "You know that Bible everyone's got? Full of crap. Come to upstate New York and I'll show you the REAL Bible!"

 

And if you're a really good Mormon, you achieve God status and get your own planet to govern. It's like being granted an expansion team in the Universe.

 

Stick a guy on acid and a seven-year-old kid with a vivid imagination in a room, and even they couldn't come up with anything as thoroughly goofy as Mormonism.

[Guest SP-1]

Mormonism bugs me because it uses the names of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, promotes itself as Christian, but denies all the essential elements of who God is and what salvation is.

 

As for organized religion, it's no secret here that I'm a Christian. It's also no secret that I generally know what I'm talking about when it comes to actual Christian doctrine. I'm amazed sometimes at how often Christianity is confused with Catholocism and it's practices, and how often Christian doctrine is taken in a way that it completely doesn't mean.

[Guest AM The Kid]

I'm fairly religious, but I believe what I want. I believe this and that from different religions and figure it out for myself. I like some of the parts of Mormonism and other parts are pure crap, but it's the same with many religions in my eyes. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

[Guest Showstoppa Icon]

As for organized religion, it's no secret here that I'm a Christian. It's also no secret that I generally know what I'm talking about when it comes to actual Christian doctrine. I'm amazed sometimes at how often Christianity is confused with Catholocism and it's practices, and how often Christian doctrine is taken in a way that it completely doesn't mean.

I had gone to Catholic school almost all my life, and i can tell you that you're 100% right. People tend to associate Catholic beliefs and Christian beliefs like they are one with each other. Im not catholic myself, and disliked when the two were implied to be the same completely.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The Church (not to be confused with The Catholic Church, which is called "The Church" many times.) was created so Christians could be in a community of fellow Christians. So we wouldn't be alone in our struggles.

 

If that's organized religion then I'm all for it in that form.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I'm fairly religious, but I believe what I want. I believe this and that from different religions and figure it out for myself. I like some of the parts of Mormonism and other parts are pure crap, but it's the same with many religions in my eyes. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

AM, that technically makes you a witch. And you know what happens to witches.

 

As far as organized religion... it's very interesting in a historical sense... bloodbaths, martyrdom, inquisitions, ruling the world and so forth. The ones running the religion show, they've earned my respect. I respect them like I respect Hitler, but it's some form of respect. Many, but not all, of those who practice religion, organized or otherwise, are emotionally weak, gullible, hypocritical and likely stupid. There's a handful of religious people who I can't fault... not many at all. But then, even Jesus said that narrow is the way.

 

In truth, I think the best choice is to be Amish. No joke there. I wish I could be Amish... but I just don't have the discipline.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Man, where is Sola Gratia/Dopey when you need him!

[Guest SP-1]

Not here, thankfully.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Hey, better him than Bubble Boy!

[Guest The Juice]

I agree with what AM said, I'm the same way. But I was brought up in a very, very religious family and got the Bible and Christanity spoon fed to me for years. And after getting older and actuall understanding history and such, I see that religion was created to apease the weaker minded. Make them feel as though all "this" isn't for nothing. IMO

[Guest The Czech Republic]

I respect Hitler

now there's some out-of-context quotation that can give ol' Michael Moore a run for his money

[Guest DrTom]

Organized religion has always been a tool for social control. People who rabidly preached the derivative myths needed a way to keep the rabble in line, so they added things like Hell, Satan, and the like to scare people into behaving the right way. It's certainly been effective for the last 2000 years. Then 'original sin' came along, thus requiring Baptism to "remove," thus hooking someone into the church when they're too young to reject what they hear. Its effectiveness is admirable.

 

Of course, religion has been responsible for countless wars, murders, rapes, and other atrocities over the years. Something that is ostensibly supposed to unite people has done a lot to divide them, often at the point of a sword. Love thy neighbor as thyself, but don't be afraid to run him through if the village idiot says he's in league with the devil. Brilliant.

 

As for Mormons, the difference between 'Mormon' and 'Moron' is only one letter, and that's not a big enough difference for me to take them seriously.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Religious People are goofy. But if it works for em, great.

 

And that is Organized Religion in a nutshell.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The morons in Christian history have given us a bad name. It pisses me off.

 

Christianity wasn't supposed to be about social control. Jesus didn't even attempt to make drastic societal changes. It was about changing it from the inside of the person themselves.

[Guest SP-1]

LPYC is correct. Jesus never once made a move to overthrow the Sanhedrin and take control of the Jewish church.

 

And Tom, the notion that baptism removes sin is a gross falsehood. One that I don't blame you for, though, as it's been horribly misconstrued over time.

 

As for religious wars and whatknot, thank nothing but humanity and it's perversion of the message for that. Not the message itself.

 

I've said it before and I think the actual Christians that know their stuff will agree with me: Christianity itself is more of a relationship and a recognition of God and what He's done. The over-organization of the Catholic church and alot of other organized religions is purely the work of man trying to gain control over something.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

What does that say about the divinity of those words and "the power of christ" if so many people use and abuse it?

[Guest The Juice]

LPYC is correct. Jesus never once made a move to overthrow the Sanhedrin and take control of the Jewish church.

 

And Tom, the notion that baptism removes sin is a gross falsehood. One that I don't blame you for, though, as it's been horribly misconstrued over time.

 

As for religious wars and whatknot, thank nothing but humanity and it's perversion of the message for that. Not the message itself.

 

I've said it before and I think the actual Christians that know their stuff will agree with me: Christianity itself is more of a relationship and a recognition of God and what He's done. The over-organization of the Catholic church and alot of other organized religions is purely the work of man trying to gain control over something.

Baptism is just a symbolic thing, it has nothing to do with washing away your sins. All you have to do is ask Jesus for fogivness, and mean it, and all is cleansed.

 

Now Spider, in order to believe what you said in your last paragraph you are assuming that someone is simple minded enough to believe fairy tales of ressurection and such.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not sure what you meant by the baptism comment, but I agree with all the rest you said.

 

It's pretty straight forward in the Bible. "be baptized for the remission of your sins" and you wouldn't find a first century Christian that wasn't baptized. Doesn't mean you're good to go from then on out. It puts you in contact with Jesus' blood and from there on out you can ask for forgiveness.

 

Catholics were the ones that trivalized baptism out of a lack of convenience.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

By reading this thread, I guess you all forgot that for about 1,000 years or so, Catholocism WAS Christianity. But now, non-catholics look at it as a bastard child of the modern form of Christianity and it's many denominations. The biggest difference between Catholocism and modern Chrisitanity is the emphasis on Mary in the Catholic denomination. What most Christians believe is that Mary is worshipped at the same level as Jesus or higher. I've never seen evidence of this. She's just given a larger amount of repsect than other biblical figures. I mean, she IS the mother of our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ, unless we are speaking of another Mary, so why not give her a little more attention. I'm not catholic, but I have plenty of catholic friends and I don't like the way some of you seem to be turning down your nose at that particular denomination.

 

While we're at it, I'm going to open a can of worms here; why are desperaging comments hurled at Christians on this site allowed? If you can ban somebody for calling a male poster posing as a female a "cunt" and label it sexism, shouldn't those who make rude remarks toward certain religions be banned as well? I've noticed that in the WWE folder, plenty of people poke fun at God thru Shawn Michaels. If the man has found God, leave it alone. There are Christians here who are offended by that. Should we not get the same rights as the women of these fora?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

We don't worship/pray to Mary cause we're never told to. There's no examples of it. We're told to worship God and Jesus.

 

I'm not trying to take personal shots at Catholics, but if you look through church history Catholicism came about through a gradual corruption of what was originally established. It's based mostly on man made ideas that were added in out of either convenience or power.

[Guest SP-1]

Baptism alone does nothing. Might as well take a shower. But it is a very strong symbol as you've accepted Christ of the washing away of your sins, and God established it as part of the deal. But without Christ, it's meaningless.

 

As for Catholocism, after my studies, the basic timeline of the church went from people meeting together and talking about Christ's fulfillment of old scripture prophecy to the organized Catholic church, to the horrendously POLITICAL Catholic church, to the Protestants recognizing the corruption there and breaking off to the Reformation to present Christianity. Did we come from the Catholics? Yes. Was it neccessary to break away from a very man-centered, ceremony-centered church? Yes, I believe it was. It's always seemed, to me, a bit like the Jewish leadership. Much too powerful a spin on government.

 

And Juice, I could also say that it's simple-minded to reject something and write it off when we live in a world rife with unexplained things that science and technology can't even begin to touch. Had I had zero experiences with God during my time as a Christian, I'd be a fool to continue with it. But I've seen Him at work, experienced Him supernaturally, and all around been witness to some shite that'll turn you white (to quote Winston from Ghostbusters).

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Baptism alone does nothing. Might as well take a shower. But it is a very strong symbol as you've accepted Christ of the washing away of your sins, and God established it as part of the deal. But without Christ, it's meaningless.

oh okay yeah I agree with that whole heartedly

[Guest The Juice]

And Juice, I could also say that it's simple-minded to reject something and write it off when we live in a world rife with unexplained things that science and technology can't even begin to touch.  Had I had zero experiences with God during my time as a Christian, I'd be a fool to continue with it.  But I've seen Him at work, experienced Him supernaturally, and all around been witness to some shite that'll turn you white (to quote Winston from Ghostbusters).

Understood, but I as well have seen things. Thing that have been wrote off on God yet there was no clear explaintion. So that isn't a very convincing argument.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

About insulting Christians, religion is something you choose to do. You should be allowed to make fun of somebody for something they've chosen to believe in.

 

Personally, I don't think the Eastern religions should be let slide either. People bash Christianity all the time, yet seem to have a soft spot for Buddhism and so forth. It's no better. Well, maybe it is, but it's not good.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Jainism is where it is at... no clothes and you get to use a broom.

[Guest SP-1]

I speak of experiences that explicitly involved evidence and presence of God (Christ).

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It coulda been Brahma... ya never know...

[Guest The Juice]

I speak of experiences that explicitly involved evidence and presence of God (Christ).

Please explain. I'm really interested in theyse types of things.

[Guest SP-1]

Hm. Where to begin? My own testimony is one steeped in spiritual warfare. I've had visions in prayer and I've heard spiritual tongues. Had an experience where I encountered Christ in prayer. I've found myself under deep spiritual attack and had to call on the name of Christ to see it fought back. If it's a fairytale name, it's a friggin' powerful one.