Organized Religion

[Guest Downhome]

I'm just waiting for my moment to join in, as I'm very religious as well.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Didn't you just join in?

 

I mean, why announce it?

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

About insulting Christians, religion is something you choose to do. You should be allowed to make fun of somebody for something they've chosen to believe in.

Then MEIOF should never have been banned because Zack CHOSE to be a female gimmick poster and the mods knew it. No excuses there. So, if a guy can be banned for calling a fake female poster a "cunt," then I believe posters should be banned or warned about hurling insults at people's religions. Calling Christians stupid based on the choice of religion is like calling a woman a cunt, or a black a nigger in my view.

 

Yes, the Catholic church was VERY corrupt. So is the modern church, just not to the same extent. But then, the church of today does not wield the political power that the Catholic church of old did, save maybe for the religious right, and you see how well there image holds up.

 

And I'm sure there are plenty of rules and ritiuals that modern Christianity has produced like the Catholics prayer to Mary. Remember, the bible is an interpretation by man. Sure, the word was handed down from God, but no man is perfect enough to keep such a sacred word in it's true form. I consider Catholics christians. Their rituals are a little bit old school, but I consider them christian brotheren nonetheless.

[Guest Downhome]

Didn't you just join in?

 

I mean, why announce it?

Because many don't even know I'm religious, but I am.

 

I can tell you are a very spiritual man Rudo, the power is strong in you.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

And I'm sure there are plenty of rules and ritiuals that modern Christianity has produced like the Catholics prayer to Mary. Remember, the bible is an interpretation by man. Sure, the word was handed down from God, but no man is perfect enough to keep such a sacred word in it's true form. I consider Catholics christians. Their rituals are a little bit old school, but I consider them christian brotheren nonetheless.

 

That's why you learn to read the original Greek......okay you don't have to do that, but it helps. With the right books and some time I can translate Greek. I had to learn it for my major in College (Youth and Family Ministry)

 

All you really need is more than one translation and just a little time to compare and contrast and do some studying.

[Guest The Juice]

Then MEIOF should never have been banned because Zack CHOSE to be a female gimmick poster and the mods knew it. No excuses there. So, if a guy can be banned for calling a fake female poster a "cunt," then I believe posters should be banned or warned about hurling insults at people's religions. Calling Christians stupid based on the choice of religion is like calling a woman a cunt, or a black a nigger in my view.

Then you'd have to ban every guy who called another guy a dick. You can't make regulations over making fun of another's choice's.

 

Get back on topic.

[Guest Downhome]

I consider Catholics christians. Their rituals are a little bit old school, but I consider them christian brotheren nonetheless.

Of course they are Christians, as they are the actual base foundation of the Christian Church itself. Sure, it's changed in many ways, but so has every other denomination of Christianity. There is only one true "Church" overall, and that is just the Christian family as a whole, whatever denomination you are a part of, we're all in this thing together.

[Guest SP-1]

Aside from the Extreme Right, the Church is fairly quiet in any power it weilds. Prayer is banned in schools, God is removed from alot of text books and Christians are bashed quite often. Doesn't sound like a powerful influence to me. And a far cry from the Kingdoms ruled more or less by a puppeteer Mother Church.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Well I went to Starbucks today... I was feelin the spiritual vibe...

 

Ok, I lied... There isn't a Starbucks around here. But I was in Tim Hortons - the Canadian Equivalent - so that's kinda like a pilgrimage...

 

I had a turkey bacon combo with honey mustard... I almost saw Jesus' face in the bun.

[Guest SP-1]

There's actually a difference in how Catholics approach salvation and how the protestant church approaches it. The Catholic church is, IIRC, peppered with traditions that aren't really found in the Bible.

[Guest Downhome]

And I'm sure there are plenty of rules and ritiuals that modern Christianity has produced like the Catholics prayer to Mary. Remember, the bible is an interpretation by man. Sure, the word was handed down from God, but no man is perfect enough to keep such a sacred word in it's true form. I consider Catholics christians. Their rituals are a little bit old school, but I consider them christian brotheren nonetheless.

 

That's why you learn to read the original Greek......okay you don't have to do that, but it helps. With the right books and some time I can translate Greek. I had to learn it for my major in College (Youth and Family Ministry)

 

All you really need is more than one translation and just a little time to compare and contrast and do some studying.

It is VERY easy to go back to the roots of the Bible, I've done so, as I feel that it's VITAL to do so to truly study the book. The actual printed Bible that's the closest to the original documents is the basic King James Version, but even in that there are a few words which are in English, but when you go back to the original Greek/Hebrew word, it means a very different thing.

 

To truly study the Bible, you need a KJV, and what is called a Strong's Concordance (sp?). It also doesn't hurt to have the verision of the KJV which has the english on one side, and the original toungue (Greek/Hebrew) on the other. It's pricey, but it's the only way to be exact with your teachings.

 

It makes me sick to see most pastors simply use a "guidebook" that has everything spelled out for them to say word by word, I do not buy into that pratice at all.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

I consider Catholics christians. Their rituals are a little bit old school, but I consider them christian brotheren nonetheless.

Of course they are Christians, as they are the actual base foundation of the Christian Church itself. Sure, it's changed in many ways, but so has every other denomination of Christianity. There is only one true "Church" overall, and that is just the Christian family as a whole, whatever denomination you are a part of, we're all in this thing together.

See, I like the sound of that.

 

RRR, if you're going to ruin this thread by being an ass, please do so in a mildly humorous way.

[Guest The Juice]

But King James was a tyrant who only used the Bible as means of control over his people. How is his version correct. The only true bible is the Hebrew and Greek scrolls.

[Guest Downhome]

There's actually a difference in how Catholics approach salvation and how the protestant church approaches it. The Catholic church is, IIRC, peppered with traditions that aren't really found in the Bible.

Every Christian denomination has accepted traditions which weren't there originally, that's to be expected over time. The Bible even speaks of this, and whatnot about the "traditions of men". The key, is that they both ask for you to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, we've just added things on top of that, all denominations have to an extent.

 

My point is that we're still together, albeit there are plenty of differences.

[Guest SP-1]

NIV is a pretty good translation as well. I have different translations around, however, and study as much about the greek as I can. My personal favorite Greek easter egg of sorts is what Jesus really said in Gethsemene when the guards came to arrest him.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not going to say that only one group is going to heaven, but there are some that we sometimes say are grouped in with us in the big haul that are really just out in left field doing more of what "they" want and less of what "God" wants.

[Guest Downhome]

But King James was a tyrant who only used the Bible as means of control over his people. How is his version correct. The only true bible is the Hebrew and Greek scrolls.

When translated from the original documents, they were as exact as they could possibly be, it's the closest version of the Bible as we know it today to the original documents. Yes, there are a few things here and there which aren't exactly correct, but it is the most exact.

 

Like I said, it's best to use the KJV along with a concordance, which allows you to take any word in the Bible, back to it's original tongue. It's quite handy, every Bible student, or Christian if you are interested in getting into the Bible for yourself, should have one.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

This is a thread to be ruined?

 

How can you see legitimacy in the bible when the New Testiment was drawn 60+ years after the fact given that Jesus' crew all figured he'd come back in their own lifetime and didn't bother to write his words down at the time?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

There's actually a difference in how Catholics approach salvation and how the protestant church approaches it.  The Catholic church is, IIRC, peppered with traditions that aren't really found in the Bible.

Every Christian denomination has accepted traditions which weren't there originally, that's to be expected over time. The Bible even speaks of this, and whatnot about the "traditions of men". The key, is that they both ask for you to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, we've just added things on top of that, all denominations have to an extent.

 

My point is that we're still together, albeit there are plenty of differences.

Yes the Bible did say that people would form their own traditions. But did it speak well of that or was it a warning?

 

Eventually if we let it dissolve further into different ways and ideas then we lose the point of it all. What's the point if many different ways are the way?

 

A lot of different denominations have different ideas of how you are saved. If one is no better than the other then it should unravel to the point that everyone gets into Heaven.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

This is a thread to be ruined?

 

How can you see legitimacy in the bible when the New Testiment was drawn 60+ years after the fact given that Jesus' crew all figured he'd come back in their own lifetime and didn't bother to write his words down at the time?

Because most of the New Testament is letters written to Churches of that time. It took that long for all those letters to be written, passed around, and collected.

 

That wasn't a big break of nothing then all of the sudden the New Testament was written. It was a gradual collecting.

[Guest Downhome]

Yes the Bible did say that people would form their own traditions. But did it speak well of that or was it a warning?

 

Eventually if we let it dissolve further into different ways and ideas then we lose the point of it all. What's the point if many different ways are the way?

 

A lot of different denominations have different ideas of how you are saved. If one is no better than the other then it should unravel to the point that everyone gets into Heaven.

Oh yeah, it's a warning, a huge warning. Still though, it's to be expected. As long as they teach to believe in Christ and to accept him, then all is fine, that's the key.

 

There are some denominations that teach you should do OTHER things also to get in (Pentecostal's, I'm looking at you) that I don't agree with, but as long as they teach the basic and believe in it, they are a member of the true Christian faith.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The followers of christ _did not write it down at the time_ that christ was around. It was from memory, or stories passed down - that alone makes it inherantly flawed. Add to that translations - which are flawed - and then political influence - and you've got yourself one big flawed book/scroll/whatever.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

You don't think God would be smart enough to have a hand in writing HIS story even if it wasn't written for a few years?

 

If he didn't have a hand in writing it then why do we bother?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The general standards to being a christian is to believe in the resurrection and the immaculate conception. But who knows what god intends?

[Guest The Juice]

OK. What about the Book of Moromon. A whole testament that the "Christians" have convienantly forgotten about.

 

Also, SP, please elaborate on you expierences. Like I had said earlier, I was born and raised a christian and have seen many facinationg things. I am just curious.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The people who wrote those epistles and gospels sure thought that what they were writing was from God. They didn't think it was a flawed telling of a story that was too far removed.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You'd think God would think of a better way to do it. I mean, if I were god, I'd do it a helluva lot better... given that I am the be all/end all and whatnot...

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

If you ever study the Book of Mormon in depth it's very flawed and even borrowed from other writings.

[Guest Downhome]

You don't think God would be smart enough to have a hand in writing HIS story even if it wasn't written for a few years?

 

If he didn't have a hand in writing it then why do we bother?

This is where neither side will win, so just drop it and move on to the next point. It's all about faith, what all of Christianity (and any religioun really) is based on. As Christians we take the Bible at it's word, as it's from God himself, speaking through man to give forth his message.

 

For someone who is not religious or is not a Christian, they will never accept that at all, and one could never convince them otherwise.

 

Heck, I wouldn't accept it either if I wasn't of the faith myself. I just have faith, it's what we all have to have.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Ok, when you're 80 years old you tell a story from your 20's, and then go on in detail about what your good buddy said to you... or you tell stories that your father or grandfather told you... and then get another person to translate it...