Guest Memphis Report post Posted July 1, 2003 It is common knowledge that Mr.Van Dam is exceptionally well liked and popular among many, if not all, Smart Marks. However, what I fail to see is THE REASON as to why this is the case. Let's use this weeks RAW as a perfect example... Regardless of whom Van Dam was facing, regardless of his personal feelings or yours, what he did was a blatant example of his unprofessionalism. Is he a complete and utter retard or didn't he realise that Ric Flair and Triple H worked his LEG for the better part of the match? Is Rob so stoned that he is unaware that, in pro wrestling, when someone 'works your leg' then you SELL IT to make it appear convincing? This isn't the only time this has happend, as any person who actually analyses Van Dam's 'matches' (or acrobatics displays) knows all too well. How about when he faced Chris Benoit at SummerSlam last year? What was missing from that match that hindered it from becoming a classic? The answer: Van Dam's lack of selling ability. It is obvious that Van Dam is not biased as to whom he does this too, as I have noticed that he does this in EVERY SINGLE MATCH he competes in. The people here rip constantly on Hunter Hearst Helmsley, however at least he SELLS, albeit only to those he deems worthy. I have never liked Van Dam and I never will. What astounds me is his abundance of popularity with the smark community when, in reality, he isn't all that good anyway. Rob's never been a competent WRESTLER, getting by through popping the crowds using glitzy moves that loose their spark VERY quickly after they are produced in ALL of his matches. Rob Van Dam is repetitive, boring, over-rated and pales in comparison to the true wrestlers within World Wrestling Entertainment. Metal M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Why is he over is the question asked...Here is the reason. Rob Van Dam is so insanely over because of these 7 things. 1). His Move-Set 2). His Charisma 3). Easy name to Chant 4). Cool Costumes 5). Has a simple vocabulary 6). Well known for his Pot status 7). Originality. He stands FAR and AWAY apart from the rest of WWE Roster... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Choken One pretty much got them all. I think the one thing that stands out though is the fact that his style is different. I'm not saying it's better, but it's different from the punchy kicky transition shit that WWE is all about in their matches that once they see a person with a moveset that is different than the norm, they respond to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I was asking the Smark community as to why they seem to blow their loads over him. His move-set is as predictable and repetitive as Triple H's, yet the two are contrasted as total opposites. Given, his charisma, in terms of instantly gaining an audiences attention is admirable however I would be more impressed if he, you know, built off that and not just reproduced it. HHH is also easy to chant. I still fail to see what is so good about him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 1, 2003 H-H-H is NOT chant able... Shout that out loud 7 times in a row... Your voice gets annoyed and you bite your teeth...fans would get annoyed quicky... HUNT-ER HUNT-ER is a different story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I am not sure why the smark community goes batty for him either other than he's over and pops the crowd that's there. Other than that, he has grown stale, but that is more the writers and Vince's fault then his. If they actually gave him something to do, he might be a more enjoyable character. If what you are looking for is a wrestler the caliber of Benoit or Guerrerro, look elsewhere. RVD barely grasps selling and his offense has been hampered and chopped down due to WWE's style of 3-5 signature moves with punching and kicking transitioning the moves and spots. (punching being a very glaring weakness of Van Dam's) RVD is also liked by the smark community just because his style is different as mentioned above. HHH's style is the same old Austin-Rock-Taker main event style offense everyone has seen on top for the last 6 years that when someone who is doing something different (not necessarily better, but different) then the smarks think why not push. Also, because he connects with the crowd so easily, smarks figure why not push him since that is the easiest road. It's a lot easier than pushing someone who isn't over (ie Randy Orton) and trying to create some chemistry between them and the audience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Another reason...WE THE SMARKS can see RVD is clearly the #1 face in Marks eyes (Foley and Austin being possible exceptions)...so we can't deny that Putting rvd on top would be good business... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RollingSambos Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I hate the WWE style. I wouldn't mind it if some people wrestled that style - Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker - because it fits them well. But some guys - RVD, Mysterio, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero - just need to be turned loose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD is a Favourite of ALL TIME. He is brilliant in the ring, and his promo skills have been improving. He is oozing charisma, and the crowd loves him. Just watch any of his ECW matches, or his matches with Jericho, Guererro or even Jeff Hardy in WWE. His style is so innovative, and he can have a good match with just about anyone. Sure, I'm biased as hell, but who cares! RVD is everybodys favourite wrestler! (OK, stopped being a mark now) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Another reason...WE THE SMARKS can see RVD is clearly the #1 face in Marks eyes (Foley and Austin being possible exceptions)...so we can't deny that Putting rvd on top would be good business... .....except that HHH has already buried everyone so badly that the regular marks (ie 98% of wrestling fans) won't buy RVD or any of the other guys HHH has beaten in the top spot. So then that person bombs as champion because fans dont like to get behind people they view as weak or incompetent and HHH now has ammunition to go into booking meetings saying that so and so isn't drawing ratings or buyrates as champ, we should get the title back on the "established star" of the group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Muzz Report post Posted July 1, 2003 H-H-H is NOT chant able... Shout that out loud 7 times in a row... Your voice gets annoyed and you bite your teeth...fans would get annoyed quicky... HUNT-ER HUNT-ER is a different story. I thought he meant "Tri - ple H" And my cat sells better than RVD. Seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 1, 2003 You seem to think that Marks have memories like Elephants. The Marks won't care if he lost last september...they likely don't even remember any burial... Crowd was DEAD tonight and RVD comes out and they are popping like nuts... The Marks just like RVD because he is ROB VAN DAM...nothing more and nothing less... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Yeah their memoreies aren't like elephants, but they are smart enough to know that RVD isn't pushed as a big deal. It's all in the presentation and RVD has been presented as a midcard guy. People pay to go to shows to see the top guys OR midcard guys they like and want to get behind that they sense will get there and they want to take that journey. RVD has been pushed as a guy who isn't going to get there. There has been nothing of note for him since last September. Be careful of the pop gauge. I'm not saying that RVD shouldn't get pushed. He should. But the pop shouldn't be the sole reason why. Shit, Dusty Rhodes could get a WWE crowd popping like nuts because he's Dusty Rhodes, but that doesn't mean WWE should put their main event program around him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted July 1, 2003 This thread was started just to spew hate about Van Dam. It belongs in the NHB folder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Muzz Report post Posted July 1, 2003 This thread was started just to spew hate about Van Dam. It belongs in the NHB folder. ... Where's the hate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted July 1, 2003 This thread was not started to spew hate about Rob Van Dam. If you determine the truth as being 'hatred' then so be it, however I fail to see myself being resentful. I was just wondering if anyone here could come forward and argue the points I made in my original post in a professional and mature manner, i.e not like 5 Star Frog Splash's tirade. Metal M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nater Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Selling. Big guys like Show, Undertaker, Brock get away with only moderate selling (about same with RVD) and have all had the title - like it or not. You would say "But thats what big guys do", to which I reply, Why cant RVD? Midcard. It's the Razor Ramon curse. Matches that flow, work well, and gain interest in the character.. but just shy of that last barrier. RVD is a credible maineventer, to prove that look at the MainEvent. His offense was solid, and the screwjob end was thrown in 3 times with Flair, Orton THEN Kane interfering. In the end HHH got the win yes, but the fans see the narrow margin that he got it with. (I realize I'm giving myself false hope.. ) What other midcard has been able to pull off that much on HHH. Charisma. No doubt about it. Sure, it's yet to be perfected but Hogan didnt start out being able to rouse the crowd like he does either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jester Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD's selling last night was...inconsistent at best. But yes, I did see parts where he would grab his leg after a kick. In fact, there was an amusing spot where he kicked HHH, grab his leg and gave a mild "ouch" like he was only slightly hurt. The problem with working his legs is that it's 90% of his offense. He HAS to no-sell at some point just to make a move. Going after his legs makes sense from a psychology point of view, but no sense in a booking point of view, because RVD can't perform if he doesn't have his legs. It's like booking Big Show in a match where his size is no use to him. It's all he's got. Not that I buy the whole "RVD doesn't sell so he can't be in the main event" argument anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I agreed that RVD has gone stale, but last night while watching the main event i noticed that the crowd actually believed that Rob was going to win the title against all the odds. The fans still see him as a guy that could become a champion someday, well it's up to Vince and the WWE writers to give him a real push either as a heel or a face like they did way back when he joined the "Fed" back in 2001. And for those that haven't seen RVD b4 he got to the WWF/E do your research and watch some ECW tapes to see why the marks and smarks alike know what Rob can do if he is being pushed to the top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted July 1, 2003 we don't like HHH the same reason we all stopped liking Hogan when we were young...he NEVER loses...not matter what happens he gets his heat back, his title back. Its really not compelling when the only story is HOW will he win, not IF he will win. And RVD generally has fun matches, is pretty funny if not a good talker, and does spots that no one else can do, or do as well. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Razor Roman Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I'd like to see RVD fight Triple H at SummerSlam and win the title. But if it was booked properly, and ther is still enough time to build this up, RVD could add a new dimension to his character. Let Triple H work the legs the whole match, and leave RVD barely able to do a kick, and let RVD search deep down and but out some brutal desperation... something ala Bret Hart vs Diesel, where is uses bites, low blows, kicks... you know, the kind of stuff a lot of Smart Marks would do to HHH if they saw him today, and the kind of thing Stephanie does to HHH nightly :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Would it hurt him to limp a little while he's running after Ric Flair, or not do so many kicks......damn....you people try to justify his unprofessionalism, but if HHH would have been doing it then everybody here would have been on his ass about it. He has a unique, and exciting moveset He has tons of charisma He's seen as COOL by the fans Great outifts but, he's gotta learn to sell better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 His selling is somewhat - SOMEWHAT - more realistic than most selling, I believe. Why? Because if you want to get the job done, would you let a sore leg (because there wasn't enough work on the leg to constitute selling it like death) get in the way? When he was doing his backflip after the two shoulder-thrusts in the corner, he grabbed his leg quickly, and then ducked under a HHH clothesline and hit a quick - and visibly lower/slower than normal - crossbody. He shakes his leg out, and he was stumbling on his left leg (the leg that was worked over) while walking. Yes, he needs to work on long-term selling. Yes, he needs to yadda yadda yadda. Yes, he needs to blah blah blah. But he's still over, and he still gets a huge reaction, and the bookers still have no REAL reason to not push the hell out of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted July 1, 2003 The WWe could do everything possible to bury him and he's still be over. He could lose for three straight months and while the marks may start forgetting him he'd still get large pops from the marks if he hit the frog splash on HHH for the 1-2-3 and the title. The marks don't care about the pre-push status of a wrestler as much as alot of you guys think. A wrestler who's shown he can be over with the fans can enter a title push from any previous status and be accepted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jericho585 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 When RVD came out to the ring and posed, most of the fans sat in their seats and didn't react. When RVD was shown with Kane backstage, a couple of fans loudly said "YOU SUCK" to RVD. At one point when HHH had RVD in the indian deathlock you could clearly hear some of the fans chant "Break his leg!". The fans aren't exactly in love with RVD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Jericho, great point. HOWEVER... The general consensus around here is that HHH has held that belt for too long. Also, we think that RVD has not been treated fairly in regards to his booking advances. He hasn't really had a chance to shine, becuase the people who are in favorable places with management have always been in front of him. The fans did really care. Now, I think they're kinda indifferent...that's just me though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 1, 2003 WWE already missed the bigger boat with RVD, when they decided to let a top tier face sit around for 8+months with no purpose, just kind of wrestling Jeff Hardy every week. If he is to be in the main event picture again, he needs to be rebuilt as a contender. Last night was the first step, as I actually felt like RVD was booked to look very strong. In most recent cases, no one has fought off the entire evolution, fought out of 2 pedigrees, and caused HHH to have to do the FAST PIN, rather than the, "I am gonna lay here and let the fans suck my greatness in" pin. As far as RVD's selling. It could be better, but I am sure the writers/bookers need to find a balance in his matches. Honestly, if RVD isn't using his legs in his matches for offense, what is he gonna do? Punch his opponent to death? Also, I feel that the whole, "making it to the ropes" sequences that we watch every week is far more insulting to my intelligence than watching a wrestler recover from leg work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MixxMaster Report post Posted July 1, 2003 I'm one of the biggest RVD fans around...why? check out what choken said...also, because of the craptastic "WWE style", he's had to do the kick-punch shit(I'll never forget the first match I saw him doing all of that...that is just NOT his style). Just check out his MANY great matches in ECW, and in Japan...the man is incredible, and has soo many moves that have yet to be even seen in the WWE, once again thanks to the stupid "WWE Style". I also blame the "WWE style" for many things, like the former ECW and WCW guys looking like shit, as they can't use the styles that made them...if they could stick to their same in-ring work that made them great, the inVasion might've gone a bit better(Not counting Buff Bagwell, of course). The ONLY one I can think of that has retained most of his style so far, is Rey Rey...but who knows how long that will last? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 1, 2003 It's IMPOSSIBLE for Rey to do the WWE style...which is Why WWE gives him 6 minute matches and tell him to curb the Rana's and shit... RVD never really had any CLASSIC ECW matches in a wrestling sense...he had some fun spotfests (his series with Lynn stand out) but he has been invovled in better matches in WWE land. He has become more enjoyable since he has lost his 20 minute stall-a-thon offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted July 1, 2003 RVD's best stuff in WWE I'd say was his feud with Eddy Guererro. He has easily been involved in just as good matches in ECW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
