Bush to angry Iraqis: "Just bring it!"

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Man, "bring them on" is one thing, but calling the troops "plenty tough"? I guess Bush is auditioning to play himself in that DC 9/11 movie.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

It's to Chave for the next two.

Yeah, but it's not like the militants are these inherently evil people.

Of course they are. They are the last vestiges of unquestioning support for a regime that engaged in mass murder, rape, torture, and many other crimes. Anyone who chooses to support such a regime is as evil as the regime is/was, and all they deserve is to be shot until they stop twitching.

 

Yeah, I want to placate the militants, because they're people too...

Boo fucking hoo. These people continue to support an evil twisted regime and make cowardly terrorist attacks on American troops who are trying to make the country a better place. The only thing we should do with them is find every single one of them and execute them.

My point was simply that if this was the other way round, and a foreign force liberated your country (be it America or somewhere else) then you would stand up for it. These people opposing American troops are fighting for what they believe is right. It doesn't matter whether it is right or not, they are still fighting for the same reason every American is. It isn't, in many cases, a case of "we like raping and pillaging, therefore lets fight democracy so we can get back to being bastards". It's just that they have been told with every breath to hate Americans, they've seen American soldiers kill their families and bomb their towns and invade their country. Bush needs to change their opinion, not reinforce it.

And by inciting rebellion in Iraq, whether by words or actions, it is going to cause long term instability in the region. It's not as simple as "wipe out those opposing us, and everyone left will like us". The more people get killed, the more people will hate the American regime and the more likely it is that they'll oppose the Americans for generations to come.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

These Militants are not necassarly inherently evil.

 

Look at many German Soldiers from WW2. They fought on the side of a man comitted to genocide on a scale as vast if not more vast than anyone in the MiddleEast is trying for. But all of these soldiers are not evil. Same with these militants. Yes some are evil but not all of them.

 

What IS evil anyway? Every human being is capable of doing something that others would class as evil. I've been told i'm evil because I eat meat. Am I evil? If a person takes a life in self defense is that evil? If a person takes a life to protect his nations sovernity is that evil?

 

If these miltants did commit atrocities against their own people are they evil? Or are they insane, or in a religious craze? some would say they place a different value on human life as well.

 

Before we call people evil we should define what evil truly is.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

[Guest JMA]

Hm. Evil.

 

e·vil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vl)

adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est

1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.

2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.

3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.

4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.

5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

 

Credit: Dictionary.com

 

But you are right, CWM. Evil is hard to define as a concept.

[Guest DrTom]

These Militants are not necassarly inherently evil.

They supported (and still support what's left of) a brutal, murderous regime. They make guerilla attacks against American troops who are trying to put the country back together. If you don't want to call that "evil," then call it whatever you want, but I'm damn sure going to call it that.

 

What IS evil, anyway?

Do we really need to waste time with this? From dictionary.com:

1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.

2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.

3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.

My defintion would be: the quality of being willfully opposed to all standards of morality and decency, characterized by the desire to inflict harm, pain, and suffering.

 

I've been told i'm evil because I eat meat. Am I evil?

Of course not, just like a lion isn't evil for catching and eating an antelope (or whatever the hell it is lions catch and eat).

 

If a person takes a life in self defense is that evil?

Must you muddy the waters with questions you could easily answer yourself?

 

If a person takes a life to protect his nations sovernity is that evil?

Not enough information. It depends on the actions of his nation and its leaders.

 

If these miltants did commit atrocities against their own people are they evil?

Yes.

 

Or are they insane, or in a religious craze?

Excuses, and flimsy ones at that.

 

some would say they place a different value on human life as well.

"Some" can fuck off.

 

Before we call people evil we should define what evil truly is. 

I already have. And yes, these people are evil and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Guest DrTom]

But you are right, CWM. Evil is hard to define as a concept.

The hell it is. See above.

[Guest JMA]

The hell it is. See above.

I meant in words. There is no simple definition of it.

[Guest JMA]

My defintion would be: the quality of being willfully opposed to all standards of morality and decency, characterized by the desire to inflict harm, pain, and suffering.

That is a pretty good definition.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

These Militants are not necassarly inherently evil.

They supported (and still support what's left of) a brutal, murderous regime. They make guerilla attacks against American troops who are trying to put the country back together. If you don't want to call that "evil," then call it whatever you want, but I'm damn sure going to call it that.

One simple question Tom. If you were in their position, having been fed the propaganda they have been, having seen American troops kill your family and bomb your cities, having been told that this is a war against no only Hussein, but also all Iraqi and Muslim people, would you oppose these forces? If you can honestly say you would stand and watch foreign troops, particularly American troops who you have been conditioned to hate for well over a decade, invade and rule your country and not want to fight them, then you are a better man than me.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

On another note, presented with the 2 choices I would not hesitate to vote in Jimmy Dean over Howard Dean. The man's a NUTCASE.

 

And through what misinformed means did your each that conclusion?

I've seen him on TV with my own eyes. I understand you're working on his campaign and all, but I have no problem saying I am very relieved that he has no chance of even winning the nomination let alone the precidency.

[Guest Vyce]

On another note, presented with the 2 choices I would not hesitate to vote in Jimmy Dean over Howard Dean. The man's a NUTCASE.

 

And through what misinformed means did your each that conclusion?

Ahem.

 

Dean's Fundraising Success Makes Him 'Less Repugnant'

(2003-07-02) -- Howard Dean's rivals for the Democrat presidential nomination once viewed him as a pest, but thanks to strong second-quarter fundraising, his opponents now see him as a pest with a lot of cash.

 

The Vermont governor who favors abortion and homosexual unions, and opposed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, is now being treated by party insiders with the kind of respect usually accorded to a town drunk who wins the Lotto.

 

 

Senators John Kerry, MA, and John Edwards, NC, have each raised about $13 million this year, compared with Gov. Dean's $10.5 million. The junior Senator from Massachusetts said Mr. Dean's recent success makes him a "potentially less repugnant candidate."

 

Sen. Kerry, who has served as a Vietnam veteran for the past three decades, said, "You have to respect what Howard Dean has done -- overcoming mental disability, and tragic personal problems in order to become governor of one of the few states where you can still get to know each person on a first-name basis. I wish him all the best as he desperately tries to convince America that he's not a gutless heathen and card-carrying communist."

 

Meanwhile, Representative Dick Gephardt fell to fifth place in the fundraising race among the 37 Democrat presidential hopefuls. Still, the Missouri Congressman remained upbeat about his chances.

 

"The way I look at it," said Rep. Gephardt. "I have $8 million of other people's money. And I have an obligation to those people to appear as a serious candidate until the last possible moment. Only when all of that cash has been doled out to consultants and ad agencies will I have time to consider whether I should withdraw from the race. Not that anyone's suggesting that."

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Wow, a retarded right wing spoof article. Great evidence!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Vyce]

Wow, a retarded right wing spoof article. Great evidence!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be a petty ass and ruin my fun.

 

If this was an Onion article I was posting lambasting Bush or the Patriot Act, you'd be rolling on the fucking floor.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I've seen that about ten times.

 

The point was that I was asking for evidence, not bullshit. You guys talk about the guy and "hate" him for no reason other than he isn't Bush.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

I almost hope he wins the nomination so he can name Kucunich as his running mate and unite to become the most incredibly insane left wing ticket in history!

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...you blithering moron, Dean is probably the most centrist non-Lieberman candidate the dems have. Why don't you do some research that doesn't come from the RNC for once?

 

God, someone should round up all you Freepers and drop you into a vat of acid.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

Lieberman is the most centrist. Dean is extremely liberal right down to all his speeches being emotional diatribes.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Back up your opinion.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

By the way, I can tell you don't like the truth because you are resorting to cursing. I am very calm you notice.

Look, I think it's great that you chose to be active in supporting a candidate. But you have to be realistic to how he portrays himself.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

- 100% rating from the NRA

- Fiscal conservative

- Very pro-military spending, simply didn't agree with the war on Iraq

- Fights for states' rights on Civil Unions, contrary to popular belief

- Ibid, gun control.

- Pro-death penalty

- Fought for the balanced budget amendment, which was a REPUBLICAN idea

- Supports action in Iran and North Korea

[Guest Slapnuts00]

I dont feel like "backing up" anything. As I said, I realize he is no realistic threat. I have seen him, I am forming an opinion on what I have seen.

Your opinion is the man is a rational, centrist, godsend that will win the presidency and bring our country to new heights of prosperity. Im not gonna ask you to back up anything.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

Even if he has centrist statistics does not change the fact that every TV appearence I've seen him in, he portrays himself as an emotional nutcase. He's like Vince Mcmahon in many ways.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!

 

Somehow EMOTION makes someone a liberal?!?!

[Guest Slapnuts00]

EDIT you know what I realized my post was immature. Im sorry Tyler. I guess I got a little excited since I knew it'd piss you off so much, which was mean and foolish. Lets just agree to disagree. MMkay?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The man's a nutcase, nothing you can say will change my opinion.

 

Obviously, not even pure fact. You've likely seen about one fourteen second clip of the Meet The Press disaster, in which he had all of FIFTEEN MINUTES to prepare for the speech.

 

By the way, I know this because I talked to his Virginia campaign manager (he happens to be my stepfather's boss), who said that all of Dean's campaign staff was advising him NOT to do MTP after his family emergency that weekend. He was supposed to have seven hours to prepare, he had fifteen minutes. Something tells me that you wouldn't perform too well in those situations, either. (side note: I love actually being somewhat of an insider now)

 

Regardless of your rah-rah bullshit, Dean is 100x better at speaking than Bush. He puts emotion into his speeches? No shit! He also seems to energize an audience like no other candidate can. Literally listening to the guy speak is inspiring in itself; I've seen him live once, and I plan on seeing him again in two weeks at a conference in Crystal City. If you weren't such an ideological Freeper, you'd realize that there's life outside of Gee Dubya Bush... but I guess that's a losing cause, isn't it?

 

EDIT: Fine, whatever. Seriously, look up what you're talking about before you start an argument about it.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

Tyler, as noted, I realized my post was stupid and foolish and ask you to disregard it and please edit your response to it as well.

EDIT: As I'll freely admit, I'm too lazy to lookup and post things. Anyway, I actually never saw his MTP interview, I've seen him on various newsclips though. I have no argument, just an opinion. I don't like the man. Im allowed, just like you're allowed to like him. BTW I'm not an ideologue. Im a registered Democrat but all the candidates SUCK, and I dont mind the Prez so much.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

If you looked up his platform, you'd realize that it's hardly liberal. He's got healthcare, affirmative action, and the environment; that's about it, as far as purely "liberal" ideas go. Seeing one or two little clips from the news isn't enough to be able to pass judgment on someone, so I suggest you look him up.

[Guest MrRant]

(side note: I love actually being somewhat of an insider now)

You aren't an insider to shit. Unless you know what kindof blemishes he has on his dick then you are just a bystander and nothing more to me as well as probably him.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Of course I'm nothing to him; he's never even met me.

 

I do know and socialize often with people who work with him daily (or, at least, weekly), and there's nothing really kept secret within the campaign, as shown by their fundraising totals being literally updated in real-time on their website. However, being able to get the quote unquote "inside truth" about things like the MTP appearance is kinda cool, especially since Dean has too much pride to admit that he wasn't prepared for it.