RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Um, all the people who have lost to HHH are already buried. Goldberg is the only guy left. Might as well make him look as strong as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Y2Kurt Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Booker - based on matches and promos - shouldn't be world champ HHH Either. At NWO 2003 HHH Did 2 Moves! *shakes head* HHH Matches Are AWFUL Now. His PROMOS Suck Now Also."I Am The WHC,I Am The Diamond " *yawn* How Many Times He Gona Say That? He Basically Says The Same Shi* EveryWeek. He isn't the guy that I would want to have as the flagship of my promotion. HHH Either? Before you say Booker T should have been champion, answer me this, when was the last time he had a good match? -About 3 or 4 Weeks Ago Against Christian. When Was The Last Time HHH Had A Good Match? When Was The Last Time HHH Cut A Good Promo? When Was The Last Time HHH Drawed? When Was The Last Time HHH Did More Than 4 Moves? When Was The Last Time HHH Didnt Get His Ass Kicked Half Of The Match And Still Won? When Was The Last Time HHH Won W/OUT Help When Was The Last Time HHH Jobbed? When Was The Last Time HHH Was Entertaining? I Know The Answers....^ This Just Shows That He SUCKS. HHH tried really hard to get Booker T over -HHH Aint Even OVER So How Can He Get Someonelse Over.Booker T Is A Better Wrestler Than HHH IMO. Atleast He Does More Than 4 Moves And Gives Up An Good Match On RAW. but Booker's wooden acting ability and just overall suckiness -I Agree But HHH Aint Too Good Anymore His Self. "Dont Pee YourSelf",LMAO Wheres The On?Watch A Couple Jan-Feb Promos And You'll See Him F*** Up. kept him from moving up to World Champion level. Book Was WC Level In WCW Book Was WC Level When He Came To WWE(F) When HHH Returned He Begin To Be STUCK In Tag-Matches All The Time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 OK, but that's unrealistic in a way that's exciting enough that it's forgivable once or twice in a match. And besides, he did sell the back injury for three months afterward. The Angle/Benoit stuff was just gratuitous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I'm sorry, someone who holds HBK's matches in high regard and complains about realism... It's just funny. Ow! I think I just pulled my back. God this hurts so much. I don't think I can even walk. God please... Just kill me now... the pain, the pain... it hurts... *kip up* Better. Is that 4 way the one where Edge keeps getting his leg beat on, but every other move he does involves him putting stress on his legs? Dude, after every single move, Edge would sell the pain in the leg. He did an AWESOME job of selling that match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Just call me Dan 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Things could be "shaken up" for a small period of time while HHH decides whether or not to turn face. He could easily drop the title and stay "in the hunt" until a big blowoff Wrestlemania match where he pins a big heel like Kane or Randy Orton (given a continual Brock-like push). If you ask me, he'll drop it soon, only to resume his 2002 habits next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ok, so how exactly do you separate "exciting" and "gratuitous"... Jesus Christ Y2Kurt, pay attention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Yes, I totally agree CC. Edge did a really GREAT job selling... after the fact. But did he struggle to hit those flapjacks? Did his legs collapse under his own weight? Did he have any problems hitting those missile dropkicks? Selling doesn't just centre around acting like you're in pain after a move is done... Randy Savage is a prime example of a great seller. His leg is hurt, you see how it effects him perform his moves. Edge is hurt... doesn't effect him at all other than those 8 seconds of "ARGH!" afterwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jester 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 The thing is, Vince doesn't use match quality as any sort of criteria for giving guys title reigns. I'm pretty sure someone being over than is the basis by which Vince hands out pushes. THANK YOU. Anyone who thinks WWE's sole basis for giving someone a belt is having good matches is on crack. In fact, sometimes you wonder if they ever make that consideration. Hulk Hogan is one of WWE's most succesful champions, in drawing power and in mainstream recognition. Has he ever shown Ricky Steamboat-level skills? Nope. Was he insanely over and did crowds want to see more of him? Yep. So they put the belt on him. I hate Hogan, but even I won't deny that it was the right thing to do (In the 80s, anyway). So screw RVD's spotting selling and Booker's workrate. Do the crowds like them and want to see more of them? I would argue yes. That's all that matters. Although thanks to lousy booking and HHH burial, the fans are less enthused about them because they've learned they aren't going anywhere. I might add that when HHH sets up the pedigree, it's like someone hits the mute button. The audience knows the match is over. They don't boo, they don't scream "nooo," they are just deflated. At the end of HHH's matches, they should feel angry because that dirty heel got away with one again, but someday he'll get his, or they should be giggling because the face really kicked his ass. Depression is not what you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 It's exciting when he's fighting through the back injury that everyone thought was legitimate, and EVERYONE in the crowd buys into it for one of the biggest pops I've ever heard. It's gratuitous when the whole structure of the match breaks down into a random switching of submission holds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Yes, I totally agree CC. Edge did a really GREAT job selling... after the fact. But did he struggle to hit those flapjacks? Did his legs collapse under his own weight? Did he have any problems hitting those missile dropkicks? Selling doesn't just centre around acting like you're in pain after a move is done... Randy Savage is a prime example of a great seller. His leg is hurt, you see how it effects him perform his moves. Edge is hurt... doesn't effect him at all other than those 8 seconds of "ARGH!" afterwards. Savage/Flair from WrestleMania 8 is a perfect example of Savage's ability to sell injury and pain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted August 8, 2003 not only that but Savage sold that Leg injury from Mania 8 STILL for the entire London Tour! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Jester, the crowd may be on mute when HHH sets up the pedigree, but they're on mute throughout a whole Booker T match until the last two minutes. At least Hogan can keep the fans interested with his ear bullshit. The fans fall asleep during Booker T matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Yes, I totally agree CC. Edge did a really GREAT job selling... after the fact. But did he struggle to hit those flapjacks? Did his legs collapse under his own weight? Did he have any problems hitting those missile dropkicks? Selling doesn't just centre around acting like you're in pain after a move is done... I have the match on tape and watch it a lot, so I know this. Yes Edge actually did struggle to hit some of his moves. Sometimes, he struggled to hit a freakin' punch on someone. And his missle dropkick didn't get a lot of air; he sort of dropped off the top rope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 It's exciting when he's fighting through the back injury that everyone thought was legitimate, and EVERYONE in the crowd buys into it for one of the biggest pops I've ever heard. Really? Cause I coulda sworn that was gratuitous too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jester 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Jester, the crowd may be on mute when HHH sets up the pedigree, but they're on mute throughout a whole Booker T match until the last two minutes. At least Hogan can keep the fans interested with his ear bullshit. The fans fall asleep during Booker T matches. Because thanks to HHH, they know Booker isn't going anywhere. Same with RVD. RVD used to get much bigger reactions. Make him HHH's bitch, keep him off a few PPVs.... now the fans have been trained to know that RVD isn't going anywhere, so it's harder to get enthused about his matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I've watched the fatal four way match multiple times too, and Edge switched mainly to moves that weren't using his legs for several believable nearfalls, and if you hit a missile dropkick, you don't feel it until after the fact, because you're just falling through the air until you make impact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I've watched the fatal four way match multiple times too, and Edge switched mainly to moves that weren't using his legs for several believable nearfalls, and if you hit a missile dropkick, you don't feel it until after the fact, because you're just falling through the air until you make impact. But you push off with your legs to jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 One of the Torch writers said it best when they wrote that WWE needed to get over finding excuses like "RVD can't work the mic or sell well" and push the people that people want to see. They can't afford to keep burying everyone that gets a reaction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. Jesus Christ RRR. How else was he suppose to sell the fucking leg short of not walking at all? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Edge's problem with selling is that he has a goofy face.. Actually his problem is that when he's worked over he completely stops working and the matches get boring. I'd say he sells TOO much. Like everything is life and death and then we get the slow Edge crawl with the goody facial expression that I don't miss one bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 One of the Torch writers said it best when they wrote that WWE needed to get over finding excuses like "RVD can't work the mic or sell well" and push the people that people want to see. They can't afford to keep burying everyone that gets a reaction. I think that sums it up right there. WWE will eventually find fault in every person that comes up for a title push if they keep this up. Then who will be left? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Jester, the crowd may be on mute when HHH sets up the pedigree, but they're on mute throughout a whole Booker T match until the last two minutes. At least Hogan can keep the fans interested with his ear bullshit. The fans fall asleep during Booker T matches. Because thanks to HHH, they know Booker isn't going anywhere. Same with RVD. RVD used to get much bigger reactions. Make him HHH's bitch, keep him off a few PPVs.... now the fans have been trained to know that RVD isn't going anywhere, so it's harder to get enthused about his matches. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. You're going to blame Booker T's complete lack of overness on one loss to Triple H? The reason they don't get excited is because he wrestles WCW style throughout the match, (stall, hit move, stall, stall, stall some more, fall down), before hitting his signature moves at the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I'm not the biggest Goldberg fan but he SHOULD take the title at Summer Slam simply because he's the only person on the Raw roster who hasn't had his credibility squashed by Triple H. And personally I think it's crap that the one-on-one was scraped for the Elimination Chamber where every pinfall prior to the finish won't mean a thing. If Triple H is hurt then make the match short ... hell, have Goldie pull a Warrior and kill Triple H in less than 30 seconds (just don't close the PPV with that match). Curt Hennig and Shawn Michaels have both worked memorable matches when they were in no condition to do so. If Trip REALLY wanted to be like Flair then he would do the same. As far as all the challengers over Triple H's reign, I don't regard any of them as "sucking". Rob Van Dam was booked properly but it was fairly obvious that Trip would retain the title since he was awarded it just weeks earlier. What it did do, at least in my mind, is present RVD as a world title contender to the fans - which I saw as buildup to an eventual title win. The Kane outcome was obvious from the start. The Elimination Chamber should have gone to RVD or Booker, IMO. Putting the belt on Michaels was a true sign of desperation for the company. Steiner should never have recieved a PPV rematch - that feud should have been killed at the Rumble and left for dead. Much like the rest of you, I agree that Booker should have taken the title at WrestleMania - pick your reason why. Just for those who are interested, this previous WrestleMania was only the 3rd time in the past 16 years when the world title didn't change hands. Triple H was responsible for two of those three outcomes, the other being Nash. I've been saying for months that Chris Benoit should be brought over to Raw and take the title ... but after a month or two, his career would be in the same position RVD's is today. Regarding promos, Jericho is head and shoulders above Triple H so if you're deciding world champions based on that then Y2J is your man (he's also got Triple H beat on ringwork). Booker T isn't over? Watch Raw sometime. Yeah, okay, so his overly long feud with Christian didn't help matters but Booker is easily one of the top guys on the roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Jester, the crowd may be on mute when HHH sets up the pedigree, but they're on mute throughout a whole Booker T match until the last two minutes. At least Hogan can keep the fans interested with his ear bullshit. The fans fall asleep during Booker T matches. Because thanks to HHH, they know Booker isn't going anywhere. Same with RVD. RVD used to get much bigger reactions. Make him HHH's bitch, keep him off a few PPVs.... now the fans have been trained to know that RVD isn't going anywhere, so it's harder to get enthused about his matches. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. You're going to blame Booker T's complete lack of overness on one loss to Triple H? The reason they don't get excited is because he wrestles WCW style throughout the match, (stall, hit move, stall, stall, stall some more, fall down), before hitting his signature moves at the end. Are you sure? Because I remember Booker was getting good reactions at the time. That's the reason they put him in a feud with HHH in the first place. Since then his reactions haven't been so great. But then again that could be because his opponents haven't exactly been barn burners in the ring either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. OK, if that wasn't good, RRR, why don't you tell me an instance of "good" selling that actually happened in the last year. Edge is 10 times the wrestler that Booker T or RVD is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. Jesus Christ RRR. How else was he suppose to sell the fucking leg short of not walking at all? He could crawl...Limp like a profesional wRESTLER/Actor/Stuntman learns to do in the first week of training. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big McLargeHuge 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Jester, the crowd may be on mute when HHH sets up the pedigree, but they're on mute throughout a whole Booker T match until the last two minutes. At least Hogan can keep the fans interested with his ear bullshit. The fans fall asleep during Booker T matches. Because thanks to HHH, they know Booker isn't going anywhere. Same with RVD. RVD used to get much bigger reactions. Make him HHH's bitch, keep him off a few PPVs.... now the fans have been trained to know that RVD isn't going anywhere, so it's harder to get enthused about his matches. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. You're going to blame Booker T's complete lack of overness on one loss to Triple H? The reason they don't get excited is because he wrestles WCW style throughout the match, (stall, hit move, stall, stall, stall some more, fall down), before hitting his signature moves at the end. So now Booker T isn't over? When did this happen? Are we talking about the guy who popped the crowd HUGE when he won the IC title? So what's over? Is being over getting huge monster pops? Is anyone on RAW getting that kind of reaction? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. Jesus Christ RRR. How else was he suppose to sell the fucking leg short of not walking at all? He could crawl...Limp like a profesional wRESTLER/Actor/Stuntman learns to do in the first week of training. Look at Savage's way of selling. In the WM8 match agains Flair he limped through the whole thing after being "injured" and the match was still a classic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 Ah yes, he stumbled around. Fantastic Job. *sigh* I distinctly remember a mix of laughter and bewilderment watching that match and Edge's horrific selling. Jesus Christ RRR. How else was he suppose to sell the fucking leg short of not walking at all? He could crawl...Limp like a profesional wRESTLER/Actor/Stuntman learns to do in the first week of training. He was limping! Watch the match again. He was never walking around without limping. And he did crawl sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
