Waiting until marriage......

[Ripper 0]

if, before they got married, he or she hugged one of their friends, would that count as cheating on the other one?

I guess so...since we all know what HUGGIN leads to.

 

Of course they said that the only person they had ever hugged or kissed were their parents...then they said that HUGGING leads to sex. Now I'm just plain afraid of these people.

[Guest The Upright Man]

I've got a quick question for you, Agent.  Why do you want this relationship to fail so badly?  Is it solely because you don't agree with them?  Because, reading your post, I can't seem to find any other reason.

Yes.

 

Also, I find their sterile denial of human nature to be revolting.

When you have sex, do you or your partner use contraceptives?

Absolutely.

 

I don't want any babies or blisters. Also, why did you ask that?

I think he was going to make a point about how, since you use contraceptives during sex, you’re denying your own basic human nature, making you a hypocrite.

[Ravenbomb 0]

what about shaking hands? Or going to see a chiropractor?

[EricMM 0]

I can't believe people imply sex is only about one thing and one thing exclusively.

 

Like it has to be ONLY for reproduction.

 

Not everything we have has only one use.

 

See: Eyes (sight, communication) Mouth (Eat, Breathe, Communication) Penis (Reproduction, Waste-removal) and so on.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I've got a quick question for you, Agent.  Why do you want this relationship to fail so badly?  Is it solely because you don't agree with them?  Because, reading your post, I can't seem to find any other reason.

Yes.

 

Also, I find their sterile denial of human nature to be revolting.

When you have sex, do you or your partner use contraceptives?

Absolutely.

 

I don't want any babies or blisters. Also, why did you ask that?

I think he was going to make a point about how, since you use contraceptives during sex, you’re denying your own basic human nature, making you a hypocrite.

Exactly.

 

And Eric I'm not saying it has only one purpose. Just that the need to procreate is basic human nature, and use of contraceptives denies that.

[EricMM 0]

If not being saddled with a kid until I'm ready YET being allowed to engage in all kinds of sexy shinnanigans w/ my chick is denying human nature then...

 

DENIED!!!

[Guest SP-1]

I'll bite...I'll respond

 

Aristotle once said, life is to be lived in a golden mean, between extremes. We should guess that it is in the extremes that life is rough. I think Garth Brooks had a song about that...

 

Anyways, I admire any couple that can somehow stay celibate until marriage. I didn't, and there are times where I realize it wasn't the best decision. Conviction to a religion is wonderful, and many of religions have beliefs that are predominantly helpful to its subscribers...that's what religion does, or at least one thing.

 

While I won't judge them on their belief, I am concerned about it. I don't think its a naturally healthful human condition for them to full abstain from all sentiments of affection. I cannot see holding hands or a light touch on a shoulder as sinful, and I can't think of a circumstance its shameful.

 

To each his own, but Stu, if you can tell me a bit more about why you'd subscribe to this particular ethos, I'd at least like to be a little more educated...In your eyes is this a personal judgement call, a preference, or where would it be supported in religion.?

For the school, it's a preventative measure, and for me it's a judgement call to attend the school and endeavor to subscribe to those guidelines.

 

Why?

 

Because I know me. Past experience has taught me that a whole lot of physical contact - especially alot of kissing - can easily get my motor running. Once that happens, chemicals get released and judgement becomes impaired. The rules are in effect during the dating/courting phase (I pursue courtship, not dating, again as a personal preference of discipline and seeking God's Will), but once you're engaged it's eased dramatically, and once you're married . . . well, you're married so all bets are off. I'd much rather enjoy my singleness, find the right girl, and keep myself from going too far before we're joined under God than find myself compromising my personal, spiritual view of love, marriage, and sex and their importance to God.

 

And to those who are complaining about the sexual inexperience of the couple in question: I'd rather grow sexually with my wife than bring the learned baggage of several different previous partners with me. She gets all of me and I get all of her, and I'm fairly certain that's how these two are approaching it. As you both grow, you grow and learn together. The sex isn't purely for physical pleasure. Biblically, it's two people coming together as ONE, and that's spiritual and emotional as much as it is physical. Their first time together will likely be more meaningful and fulfilling than either of them losing their virginity years ago in the backseat of an old Chevy, nervously hoping that a cop doesn't creep up on them.

 

And Eric: don't assume that either of them have always abstained from masturbation. Most people, even Christians, struggle with it. I've battled with it, myself, and I'm leaving in a week to major in Pastoral Ministry. We're not bloody perfect.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I think he was going to make a point about how, since you use contraceptives during sex, you’re denying your own basic human nature, making you a hypocrite.

 

Exactly.

 

And Eric I'm not saying it has only one purpose. Just that the need to procreate is basic human nature, and use of contraceptives denies that.

Ah, but self-preservation (a far more important instinct) supercedes my need to have a kid right now.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Agreed, but you are denying one part of nature.

 

For the school, it's a preventative measure, and for me it's a judgement call to attend the school and endeavor to subscribe to those guidelines.

SP, I've always wondered why some Protestants are so strict on things like dating, sex, etc., yet contraception is so easily permissible. When purity is such a concern, why is this allowed?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

In marriage if you are not ready to have a baby yet because of maturity or financial reasons then using contraceptives is just fine. The Bible has no problem with sex for pleasure's sake. Just read Song of Solomon.

[Guest Coffey]

Waiting for sex is understandable but hugging or kissing is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Why's that? Because society says so?

[Guest SP-1]

COntraception during marriage? I dunno. I've never gien it much thought. The Bible is full of God opening and closing wombs when he chooses, so I've always figured it was up to Him when my wife becomes pregnant. Unless it's a big deal to her, I don't plan to use condoms.

[Nighthawk 0]

You'll have like 10 kids then. God expects his followers to use common sense.

[Guest SP-1]

That's assuming I have the final say in a life being created. Which I don't. Nor does my wife. If God chooses to bring things together, so to speak, for a fetus to begin forming, then He will. If He doesn't want it to happen, it won't. If I have 10 kids, that's great. I'll consider myself a blessed man. If I have one kid, I'll be every bit as blessed. I'll have exactly what God wants me to have and nothing more.

[Nighthawk 0]

I'm not really going to argue, it's too early in the day for that, but I don't think you'd walk into oncoming traffic and trust God to keep you from being killed. Kids are nice and all, but you'll be blessed right into the poor house.

[EricMM 0]

But actually, Spider Poet, if you use the pill or condom, you will find it's much harder for god to create life in your wife.

 

And you don't want 10 kids on chance. Don't over populate this globe man.

[Guest SP-1]

The pill isn't 100% effective, and neither is a condom. God is still in control.

 

And IDRM, having children is hardly the same as heading into something that is tantamout to suicide. Though, God did allow Daniel to survive being thrown to the lions, men have survived being thrown into a furnace, etc. Biblically, He's demonstrated quite a knack for being in control, more often than not. Right down to Job. Not even the Devil can act without God allowing it to take place.

[Guest SP-1]

The pill isn't 100% effective, and neither is a condom. God is still in control.

 

And IDRM, having children is hardly the same as heading into something that is tantamout to suicide. Though, God did allow Daniel to survive being thrown to the lions, men have survived being thrown into a furnace, etc. Biblically, He's demonstrated quite a knack for being in control, more often than not. Right down to Job. Not even the Devil can act without God allowing it to take place, and that's always for a

[Guest SP-1]

The pill isn't 100% effective, and neither is a condom. God is still in control.

 

And IDRM, having children is hardly the same as heading into something that is tantamout to suicide. Though, God did allow Daniel to survive being thrown to the lions, men have survived being thrown into a furnace, etc. Biblically, He's demonstrated quite a knack for being in control, more often than not. Right down to Job. Not even the Devil can act without God allowing it to take place, and that's always for a greater good result.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

COntraception during marriage? I dunno. I've never gien it much thought. The Bible is full of God opening and closing wombs when he chooses, so I've always figured it was up to Him when my wife becomes pregnant. Unless it's a big deal to her, I don't plan to use condoms.

Yeah it is up to him, but that's no excuse to be careless. Babies will come when you least expect it and mostly when you think you're not ready, but you'll have a better chance of putting off having children when you use birth control than if you didn't.

[Rendclaw 0]

I'm sorry Poet, but there are some things that are left up to chemistry rather than deity.

 

This is and always has been my problem with organized religion as a whole. There are so many interpretations of what is true and right within it that for the last two thousand years (and a good amount of time before that), man is willing an able to kill over it, or mutilate themselves, physically or otherwise.

 

This Baptist sect is obviously extreme in their tenets, like John Lithgow in Footloose, but much, MUCH worse. From what I have read, I surmise that it is going to take a total and complete supression of basic human nature to keep one "pure" in the eyes of God. That means no physical expression of love of affection outside the immediate family (firmly resists making the obligatory incest jokes that result from that). You are supposed to channel this neature back towards your faith, making your bond with God stronger and more pure.

 

Being in the great nation of ours, they have the right to worship how they see fit, but its also my right to say that what they espouse is a steaming pile of bovine fecal matter, and that to use their faith to retard the development of their children as human beings in any way borders on the criminal.

[EricMM 0]

God made SP triple post. It was his will... (It may very well have been)

 

But honestly, I don't think he cared. It just happened because SP or the board messed up somehow.

 

Because God is above that. Because God is fucking omni-potent, omni-escant, and God is NOT a control freak. I mean come on, what do you control? Everything you come into contact with you can change. You can rip all the grass out of a field if you want to.

 

But you know what? You don't have to, and you PROBABLY don't want to. The grass will do it's own thing.

 

So do people. God has his will and his ideas, but this intricate god deciding every little thing predestination idea is silly. Guess what. God could make your wife pregnant whenever. God could probably make you impregnate her. But if you use protection correctly, you will remain childless until you see fit. I promise you. Seriously, if she has an IUD and has a hormone implant, and you're using a condom, I promise you you won't get kids.

[Guest Choken One]

According to SP

 

God controls my dick.

[Ripper 0]

SP, honestly dude, I get more and more worried about your literal interpretation of the bible everyday. You do realize that the Bible itself tells of how it could be corupted since it was written by men, right. I mean, in biblical times, you HAD to have as many kids as possible for the survival of the people. You shouldn't eat pork and shell fish and such because you might die from it. The writers of the bible put their own beliefs intertwined with what God told them. Its in there. It is very dangerous to hold on so dearly to the bible as a literal interpretation of what you should do as it is clearly there as a guide, not a rule book of yes and no'...more of a map of what way you should try to go.

 

I don't know if you study on your own or not, but it sounds like (and this is only from your post that I have read) that who ever is doing the teaching is casually jumping over the parts that say "DON'T TAKE ALL THIS LITERALLY, I GAVE YOU CHOICE AND COMMON SENSE...USE IT"...

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

There are things that aren't supposed to be taken literally and some that are not. If you just study on a regular basis it's pretty easy to tell which is which.

 

About them mixing their own beliefs with what they were told. That was a dangerous practice that led to the problems with the Pharisees and Saducees (sp?) because they had broken the law down into the most rediculous details because they had mixed their own beliefs with the law.

 

Now of course we're not under the old testament law anymore, but I'm sure people nowdays are doing the same thing with what was taught in the new testament.

[Ripper 0]

The whole anti christ thing proves that even in the new testament john was adding in his own 2 cents.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

SP, honestly dude, I get more and more worried about your literal interpretation of the bible everyday. You do realize that the Bible itself tells of how it could be corupted since it was written by men, right. I mean, in biblical times, you HAD to have as many kids as possible for the survival of the people. You shouldn't eat pork and shell fish and such because you might die from it. The writers of the bible put their own beliefs intertwined with what God told them. Its in there. It is very dangerous to hold on so dearly to the bible as a literal interpretation of what you should do as it is clearly there as a guide, not a rule book of yes and no'...more of a map of what way you should try to go.

 

I don't know if you study on your own or not, but it sounds like (and this is only from your post that I have read) that who ever is doing the teaching is casually jumping over the parts that say "DON'T TAKE ALL THIS LITERALLY, I GAVE YOU CHOICE AND COMMON SENSE...USE IT"...

It's also part of his denomination. I, personally, just can't believe in predestination and literally intrepreting the Bible.

[Guest The Old Me]

The whole anti christ thing proves that even in the new testament john was adding in his own 2 cents.

I'd have to agree with what Ripper is saying. You can't take the bible word for word. Didn't anyone play those games in school, where the teacher tells 1 person 1 thing, and the student repeats it to the next etc, and by the time it gets back to the teacher, it's not even the same thing she told the first kid?

 

I have a big problem with faith in my life right now. I mean, I feel like I have to believe in a higher being, because something has to create all this. At the same time, there are FAR too many different views on this being. I'm not sure if I believe in heaven or hell anymore, and some days I question the existance of a god. Unless I need something, and then I find myself praying to something in which I'm not even sure is real. It's very confusing for me at this point of my life, as I have a daughter and I'm not sure what to teach her.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The whole anti christ thing proves that even in the new testament john was adding in his own 2 cents.

I'm not sure what you meant by that.

 

Anti-Christs were just those who actively spoke out against Christ or tried to discredit him. John even said many have already come.

[Ripper 0]

SP, honestly dude, I get more and more worried about your literal interpretation of the bible everyday.  You do realize that the Bible itself tells of how it could be corupted since it was written by men, right.  I mean, in biblical times, you HAD to have as many kids as possible for the survival of the people.  You shouldn't eat pork and shell fish and such because you might die from it.  The writers of the bible put their own beliefs intertwined with what God told them.  Its in there.  It is very dangerous to hold on so dearly to the bible as a literal interpretation of what you should do as it is clearly there as a guide, not a rule book of yes and no'...more of a map of what way you should try to go. 

 

I don't know if you study on your own or not, but it sounds like (and this is only from your post that I have read) that who ever is doing the teaching is casually jumping over the parts that say "DON'T TAKE ALL THIS LITERALLY, I GAVE YOU CHOICE AND COMMON SENSE...USE IT"...

It's also part of his denomination. I, personally, just can't believe in predestination and literally intrepreting the Bible.

But it is impossible to really literally interpret the entire bible seeing as it says one thing and later on says that the day of that is gone, this is the new law. So either you disregard the entire old testement (which does away with the whole 10 commandments and that whole homosexuality is wrong thing that the church seems to cling to now) and believe in the New and teachings of Christ, or you admit that somethings are not to be taken literally and that God gave us free will for a reason. You can't preach peace and love while saying that if you do go to war its make sure to kill everyone and its cool to rape the defeated's wives and children. You have to say that one of those things aren't the way to go...and dear god I hope you choose the second one.

 

False prophecy was one of the major things the Bible says to be aware of as well as pointing out that evil will know every bit of the bible and will hide from you what you truly need. The most important part that of the Bible is Love is above all and God put you here to live life. The bible is full of stories that say "Hey, don't fuck up like this guy" or "Try doing what he did...that might help."