I just cannot make myself care for Raw anymore

[Youth N Asia 0]

I've been watching Raw since the start. And while I would keep up with WCW I still stuck with the WWF. I just liked the porduct better.

 

But I've never been so turned off by the show as I've been lately. I'm bored, so I might as well go over what I don't like.

 

Jim Ross

I was actually starting to like the Coach. He's not great or anything, but Jim Ross is just hard to listen to these days. Spends way too much time going off on guys when the fans just don't care that much. He's been awful since Lawler came back and he's just getting worse.

 

Shane vs Bischoff

I know a lot of people here like Shane. But I'm not into his deal where he takes a lot of time off, comes back for a big match, does one huge bump, and takes off for another 10 months. I was bored with this feud before it started and I don't want to see any more.

 

Dudleys vs French Guys

This same feud has been done a hundred times before a hundred ways. This one is nothing special and is even worse cause the French guys are just bad in the ring. I tend to like the Dudleys, but this feud is just too predictable and boring.

 

The Clique Ego Stroke

Kevin Nash...seems like every time he's on tv they have to get over the whole "cool" thing with him. It just comes off way too scripted and always ends up making the other guy (Jericho) look like shit. Bret Hart somehow managed to carry him to workable matches 8 years ago. But other then that he's very bad. And he's getting worse every year.

 

Shawn Michaels...I was happy to see him come back and put on good matches. But with the Clique it seems like the first purpose of every show is to make each member look good and everything else is secondary. Time for him to do some clean jobs to the guys he's burying now.

 

HHH...the way he's getting pushed you'd think he was half as over as he was in 99-01. Sorry to say, but after his injury he's never been the same in the ring. His matches aren't great anymore and he's boring on the mic. Plus he's never going to lose that goddamn belt.

 

Steiner vs Test

This is the last feud I want to see...yet it feels like it's been going on forever. Two guys who can't put on a good match or entertain a crowd somehow get to be on TV every week feuding over the one chick in the company I can stand...what's wrong with this picture? And I use to like Test. I though he was a good big man with a great elbow drop...but he's just not there anymore.

 

Making Jericho look like crap

Chris Jericho has been consistanty the best worker on Raw for a long damn time. Yet he keeps getting crapped on. They'll give him a push for a week, then bury him for three. For as great as he's been you'd think they'd treat him better. Sure, he'll get Nash's hair, but in the end Nash will come out ahead.

 

The Woman's Division

This takes up tv time every week, yet they seem to do zero booking ahead. The Kim turn was soooo pointless. The whole divison is to have the belt on a heel, then have a couple heels team up on Trish, and then to have Trish win in the end. It's been like that for a while. And why does it get so much time when there's only 4 workers doing anything?

 

Randy Orton's Uberpush

I don't hate Orton has much as others here do. But he's getting way too big a push for as little as he's doing. His matches aren't great, and he's a stiff on the mic. Now I really liked the RNN injury updates. But in front of a live crowd (where the segments aren't taped beforehand) he's pretty bad.

 

That's pretty much all of my bitching. I like Kane as the slobbering killer, but they keep hurting it by having him in pointless angles with Shane and Eric. Keep him in wrestling storylines and it could work for me.

 

And I'm slightly amused by the Hurricane/Rosie segments...but in 2 weeks I think I'll be sick of them.

 

And while I hate everything on Raw. I'm really digging just about everything on Smackdown outside of the Vince/Steph/Zack crap.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

Shawn Michaels...I was happy to see him come back and put on good matches. But with the Clique it seems like the first purpose of every show is to make each member look good and everything else is secondary. Time for him to do some clean jobs to the guys he's burying now.

 

Not that I necessarily disagree with the rest of your points, but how has HBK been burying anyone since he came back?

 

And please don't say Jericho at Mania. The wrong guy might've went over, but I wouldn't call it a full-fledged burial. That honor goes to HHH and Booker.

 

Anyhow, I know where you're coming from as a long time fan getting too fed up to care, so my advice to you is do what I did last year- stop watching. Not permanently, just take a good six months off and you'll come back refreshed. You still might not be happy, but you'll be able to take the bullshit they're showing with a grain of salt and eventually you'll get back into it. Sometimes a break can do you good.

[Guest JRE]

Geez, sucks that you have to dislike something so much. Wrestling's like an escape for me...I'm back from work or school, I'm relaxed...I chill and watch Raw. it's been a tradition for a good chunk of my life. And the fact that I still enjoy Raw as a whole is something that makes me very pleased, I wouldn't like to be a boat where I disliked it. Your situation sucks.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Burial might not have been the best word...but it seems like they spend too much time making Shawn look good at other's expense. I didn't mind him going over at Mania (yes I did), but even in the rematch it took cheating and run ins before he put the man over. I'm just tired of the same old thing.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Geez, sucks that you have to dislike something so much. Wrestling's like an escape for me...I'm back from work or school, I'm relaxed...I chill and watch Raw. it's been a tradition for a good chunk of my life. And the fact that I still enjoy Raw as a whole is something that makes me very pleased, I wouldn't like to be a boat where I disliked it. Your situation sucks.

I love Smackdown.

 

Angle vs Brock

Eddy vs Benoit

The Tag Division!

Cruiserweights

JAMIE NOBLE, BOY!

 

I'm just fed up with Raw

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Kevin Nash...seems like every time he's on tv they have to get over the whole "cool" thing with him. It just comes off way too scripted and always ends up making the other guy (Jericho) look like shit. Bret Hart somehow managed to carry him to workable matches 8 years ago. But other then that he's very bad. And he's getting worse every year.

 

That's not a "thing" my friend. Nash is that cool.

[Guest JRE]

Yeah, see, I already read that you liked Smackdown....and that really didn't change any opinion of mine. I'd still hate to hate Raw. I dunno if it's a sheer difference in opinion, if I'm not smart enough to dislike something (and I'd rather be stupid if that' the case), or if you're a little...you know...anal retentive: But I'd still hate to not enjoy Raw every Monday.

[iamsherm 0]

I dunno if it's a sheer difference in opinion, if I'm not smart enough to dislike something (and I'd rather be stupid if that' the case), or if you're a little...you know...anal retentive

Then color me anal retentive too. It's just so hard to watch something so bad that was once so good.

[Guest JRE]

O...k. I'll color you anal retentive. And I'll color me not, it's just so easy to enjoy my Monday nights.

[justcoz 0]

Jim Ross

I was actually starting to like the Coach. He's not great or anything, but Jim Ross is just hard to listen to these days. Spends way too much time going off on guys when the fans just don't care that much. He's been awful since Lawler came back and he's just getting worse.

 

While I agree with you to an extent, I was not liking Coach at all. For some reason, I can tolerate his banter on Heat because I think they've given him color guys who work "with him". Raven, D Lo, Lita and now Al Snow didn't go out there and pretty much bury Coach like Lawler did.

 

When Kane first set JR on fire - I was thinking it would at least give the show a fresh feel with someone new on play by play. When it was obvious that Coach and Lawler weren't going to work after week one, I would have stuck either Bischoff on there or had Bischoff bring in Tony Schiavonne - even for a trial run. Instead they left Coach out there to die and he will never go anywhere from here.

 

The thing that is increasingly obvious to me right now is that Jerry Lawler has to go. I feel that Ross still has his strong points of selling PPV's and angles but is watered down by Lawler's presentation. Lawler was good when he started on color but is a bad parody which holds the product down. I would have never brought him back after the Stacy Carter ordeal.

 

Tell Lawler to go home or host a King's Court segment on Heat or something. Diamond Dallas Page should be called in as the new color guy - instead Slamball is using his presence to sell their product while WWE runs with 1998.

 

I'd even consider putting Austin and Bischoff up there with Ross as an option.

 

When Monday Night Football is in a slump - the first thing they look at is their commentating team. Too bad Raw doesn't do that.

[justcoz 0]

Shane vs Bischoff

I know a lot of people here like Shane. But I'm not into his deal where he takes a lot of time off, comes back for a big match, does one huge bump, and takes off for another 10 months. I was bored with this feud before it started and I don't want to see any more.

 

On this one... why in the hell haven't they used the fact that Shane bought WCW away from Bischoff as a way for people to understand the animosity between the two? I'm not saying the feud has to be centered on WCW but it's a storyline base to build from and they just refuse to go there.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I dislike RAW and I'm not anal retentive. It's stupid for you to call someone anal about it if they don't like RAW just because you have a higher tolerance.

 

I'm just about done with RAW too, but I like Smackdown.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Jim Ross

I was actually starting to like the Coach. He's not great or anything, but Jim Ross is just hard to listen to these days. Spends way too much time going off on guys when the fans just don't care that much. He's been awful since Lawler came back and he's just getting worse.

I agree on this one. JR's become too biased in what he says.

 

 

Shane vs Bischoff

I know a lot of people here like Shane. But I'm not into his deal where he takes a lot of time off, comes back for a big match, does one huge bump, and takes off for another 10 months. I was bored with this feud before it started and I don't want to see any more.

I agree on this one too. He's the only McMahon I can't stand.

 

Dudleys vs French Guys

This same feud has been done a hundred times before a hundred ways. This one is nothing special and is even worse cause the French guys are just bad in the ring. I tend to like the Dudleys, but this feud is just too predictable and boring.

Well it could work if La Res had a better gimmick than an old sentiment about the war.

 

The Clique Ego Stroke

Kevin Nash...seems like every time he's on tv they have to get over the whole "cool" thing with him. It just comes off way too scripted and always ends up making the other guy (Jericho) look like shit. Bret Hart somehow managed to carry him to workable matches 8 years ago. But other then that he's very bad. And he's getting worse every year.

You think it's scripted? Nash has been that way since back in 94. That's pretty much why he got so over as a face as Diesel.

 

Shawn Michaels...I was happy to see him come back and put on good matches. But with the Clique it seems like the first purpose of every show is to make each member look good and everything else is secondary. Time for him to do some clean jobs to the guys he's burying now.

He's burying who now?

 

HHH...the way he's getting pushed you'd think he was half as over as he was in 99-01. Sorry to say, but after his injury he's never been the same in the ring. His matches aren't great anymore and he's boring on the mic. Plus he's never going to lose that goddamn belt.

He's not as over as a heel anymore but why should he be? In 99-01 he had stuff to run with. A racist angle? Necrophilia? Booker "I can't get heat with doing a spinaroonie or saying sucka" T? Since HHH came back he's had nothing to get him over as a heel that'd work.

He lost to Michaels in Shawn's return match.

He beat RVD.

He beat Kane after the whole necrophilia saga.

He lost to Shawn in the chamber.

He beat Shawn the next month.

He got the crapped kicked out of him by Steiner for 17 minutes and in the buildup prior had such classic confrontations as the posedown.

He beat Steiner

He beat Booker who didn't help matters AT ALL and this was a racist angle

His team lost a six man tag

He got beat up by Nash for about 8 minutes

He beat Nash in HITC

Tell me how exactly he can be as over as he was when he usually gets the crap kicked out of him or he's saddled with stupid angles or people who can't carry their own weight? His 99-01 run was successful because he could get the upperhand on Austin, Rock, Foley, and Kane. His latest run can be compared to Jericho's undisputed title reign because they're looking just as weak but we won't compare now will we?

As far as match quality, he's still the same. I haven't seen any difference. The guy wasn't doing 450's or technically sound submission matches before or anything. If he sucks so bad how come he had a good match with Shawn, Booker, and Nash. He had a good match with Nash for crying out loud.

 

Steiner vs Test

This is the last feud I want to see...yet it feels like it's been going on forever. Two guys who can't put on a good match or entertain a crowd somehow get to be on TV every week feuding over the one chick in the company I can stand...what's wrong with this picture? And I use to like Test. I though he was a good big man with a great elbow drop...but he's just not there anymore.

Would you rather RAW have three more people with nothing to do? Steiner can't entertain the crowd? For someone who used to get big pops all the time and still does, that puzzles me.

 

Making Jericho look like crap

Chris Jericho has been consistanty the best worker on Raw for a long damn time. Yet he keeps getting crapped on. They'll give him a push for a week, then bury him for three. For as great as he's been you'd think they'd treat him better. Sure, he'll get Nash's hair, but in the end Nash will come out ahead.

How has Jericho been buried? Treat him better? You mean putting him on every RAW and PPV since he's come in, giving him his own segment every week on RAW, and keeping him in the main event scene since about October 2001 is horrible? With bitching like yours, you'd think Austin thinks the same way the way he left when gasp he had to job.

 

The Woman's Division

This takes up tv time every week, yet they seem to do zero booking ahead. The Kim turn was soooo pointless. The whole divison is to have the belt on a heel, then have a couple heels team up on Trish, and then to have Trish win in the end. It's been like that for a while. And why does it get so much time when there's only 4 workers doing anything?

The Kim turn gave her a personality and now the fans might actually care. What exactly do you want the division to be too? Do you want it to be faces getting the upperhand then the heel always going over? Isn't that why people don't like Hunter? Because he always gets the win in the end? That's how wrestling is supposed to work. Heel gets upperhand, Face wins in the end. It's put Trish more over than she could have been based on just looks. By my count there's about 7 or 8 women in that division and the matches usually last only about 5 minutes at most. Sometimes more, sometimes less. How 5 minutes is an insane amount of time on a two hour show is beyond me.

 

Randy Orton's Uberpush

I don't hate Orton has much as others here do. But he's getting way too big a push for as little as he's doing. His matches aren't great, and he's a stiff on the mic. Now I really liked the RNN injury updates. But in front of a live crowd (where the segments aren't taped beforehand) he's pretty bad.

Why did you like the RNN injury updates and not like him now? They're the same thing. I've thought his boring before and I still do. You just went along with the general consensus.

 

That's pretty much all of my bitching. I like Kane as the slobbering killer, but they keep hurting it by having him in pointless angles with Shane and Eric. Keep him in wrestling storylines and it could work for me.

The only thing they've done to hurt him is give Shane any offense against him. Sure family-avenging rage will get you some punches in but they shouldn't phase Kane and should only last at most 2 seconds.

 

And I'm slightly amused by the Hurricane/Rosie segments...but in 2 weeks I think I'll be sick of them.

They're a hell of a lot more entertaining than RNN and bad WWE for trying to get Rosie over instead of letting him do nothing.

 

And while I hate everything on Raw. I'm really digging just about everything on Smackdown outside of the Vince/Steph/Zack crap.

Well good for you then, stop watching RAW. Smackdown's been pretty boring with the exception of Matt Hardy, Rey, WGTT, Benoit, Sable, and Angle. I can't stand Brock who get a megapush despite being unover until about November, went over at WM in the main event even though he visibly blew a big spot, has no charisma, and has injured people before. Rhyno has entertained about as much as a papercut. Eddy Guerrero can only stay true to the role he's supposed to be doing if he's against Benoit because otherwise he's doing face promos when he's supposed to be a heel. You're digging APA? You like the heatless Bashams? Smackdown's on about the same level as RAW.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

JR will always be gold to me as he can still occasionaly make something seem important (The Kane interview before Kane BBQ'ed his ass and lower back) and when he's not doing that, he is unintentionally funny. (Tonight where Kane had Biscoff ready for the chokeslam. "DO IT! DO IT! YOU BIG UGLY MEAN FREAK SON OF A BITCH! BASTARD! DO IT!" )

 

As for the rest of Raw, it is a sad day when I look forward to the Rosey segment of the show. And yet, it happened tonight.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well good for you then, stop watching RAW. Smackdown's been pretty boring with the exception of Matt Hardy, Rey, WGTT, Benoit, Sable, and Angle. I can't stand Brock who get a megapush despite being unover until about November, went over at WM in the main event even though he visibly blew a big spot, has no charisma, and has injured people before. Rhyno has entertained about as much as a papercut. Eddy Guerrero can only stay true to the role he's supposed to be doing if he's against Benoit because otherwise he's doing face promos when he's supposed to be a heel. You're digging APA? You like the heatless Bashams? Smackdown's on about the same level as RAW

 

Okay so because Brock used to not be over that means he shouldn't be pushed even though he's over now? He may not have gotten over until SummerSlam, but he's over now. Brock has improved a lot in the ring and become very watchable now. Who else has drawn watchable matches out of Big Show like Brock has? Now that he's a heel again it might be even better.

 

Sable???

 

Smackdown seems to have a lot better tag teams going right now with TWGTT and Filthy Animals '03 (Rey/Kidman). Yeah that's not a lot, but I'd take it over La Resistance/Dudleys any day.

 

I like the flow of Smackdown. I like the announcing better. The atmosphere is nicer. And I can get into the ringwork more.

[justcoz 0]

I will continue to watch Raw with hopes that it will improve. They still have their occassional "on" week but most of the time it's a miss. I don't think we should tell someone to just stop watching if they don't like it. We all come on here and bitch about the product in some way. That's what makes it fun.

 

For the most part, I agree with this guy - I'm in the same boat. I have a difficult time caring about Raw anymore. With no head to head aspect with Nitro anymore - they don't seem to care to give the show any special feeling anymore and quite honestly it's a waste of a live satellite feed.

 

They aren't interesting in pushing new talent to main event status (Orton being the exception) and while I'm all for longer title reigns, Triple H's has been worked incorrectly since day one because they give the viewer no reason whatsoever to believe that the person challenging for the title will beat him. That takes the edge off of having a heel champion.

 

The announcing is horrendous, with or without JR. I've made my feelings on Lawler quite clear. In my opinion, the show just looks and sounds very stale compared to Smackdown where you have a fresher look, good commentating team and the guys who can work for the most part get some decent time to work. Raw is 1998 and just comes across tired, cheesy and almost as if it's an intentional thumb to the nose of anyone who is crying for a change and some spontenanity.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Brock has improved a lot in the ring and become very watchable now. Who else has drawn watchable matches out of Big Show like Brock has?

For all that improvement he still botched an important spot in the main of WM. He also has hurt about 4 or 5 people on the roster because of his sloppiness and that's alot considering he's been around a year.

 

Who can pull a watchable match out of Big Show? Let's see. Savage, Luger, Rey Jr., Sting, The Rock. Maybe more. He's really not that bad.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Most of those guys were when he was in WCW and even I'll admit that when he was in WCW he was a lot better than he is now.

 

He was leaner and in better shape back then.

 

And as far as Brock has he injured anyone or just hurt them? People get "hurt" all the time in wrestling.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Yeah people get hurt but it says something when it's the same person doing alot of hurting.

[the pinjockey 0]

Who has he hurt other than himself on the SSP and Bob Holly? And I am sure no one weeps for Holly.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

To WWE: Stop the lame!

[Lightning Flik 0]

Personally, I understand where YNA is coming from. Heck, I went a step further as I'm not happy with the product as a whole.

 

I stopped watching two months ago (week 9 actually starts this Smackdown). I'm investing my time, albeit free time, to watch WWE shows. And if that is the best stuff they can come up with, then I'm watching/doing other stuff.

 

Most of YNA's problems is what I have a problem with RAW.

 

Smackdown I'll admit was decent 8/9 weeks ago, but if I settle with mediocre, how does that tell the company that I'm not enjoying the product? How do they know I'm displeased when I'm wholefully supporting the product, since they do not listen very well to the fans?

 

And frankly, if I'm giving up my free time for them to entertain me, and they fail, they (along with I) are wasting my free time. If I have to spend a little more time and money towards a different product (TNA and RoH are some I'm looking into) to illustrate that I am displeased with the WWE product (as my dollar not being spent to them means something in the small end), then I shall.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Who has he hurt other than himself on the SSP and Bob Holly? And I am sure no one weeps for Holly.

I believe he was the one who finally did DDP in. He botched an F5 horribly on Albert.

[the pinjockey 0]

I think Holly killed DDP.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That opening segment took me right out of it. I stopped watching it after that.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Who has he hurt other than himself on the SSP and Bob Holly?  And I am sure no one weeps for Holly.

I believe he was the one who finally did DDP in. He botched an F5 horribly on Albert.

Hardcore Holly injured DDP. I know, I was at the event where it happened.

 

Was Albert actually injured from that?

[the pinjockey 0]

It seems like the last month Austin and/or Bisch have been opening every show. And I agree it does kill the flow.

 

Unless you have the Eagles to flip to. E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

YNA, join the club.

 

Ross and Lawler easily ruin even the best of shows with the collective noise of shilling and yelping. It constantly made my ears bleed. Smackdown does have its bright points, but what adds to them is Cole and Tazz, who comment on the action at such a higher level that it almost exceeds belief that three years ago one was constantly mocked for being so horrible and the other was a wrestler with no direction. I know Vince must adore "JR and King" but we've gone way past the point of them being totally embarassing. There's problem #1.

 

#2 is the massive amount of dead-end characters lingering around the show. The Duds are reduced to being flag-wavers. Steiner is in permanent career purgatory. Nash is only in the EC to add a 6th body. Think about this - why do you think Heat is so bad? No one participates in the Heat thread, and no one wants to recap it for the site, and that's because the matches always involve wrestlers that don't ever improve ring-wise or character-wise (i.e. Val Venis, Tommy Dreamer, Maven, Spike, I can go on). Velocity never has that sort of problem. Kane is the only one on RAW that has seen any sort of character rejuvination. ONE guy out of about thirty.

 

Now, I am willing to admit that there are a couple of storylines that can garner the interest, but they're surrounded by such trite ga-ga that I'm not surprised when threads like this show up. We are part of the fanbase that feels obligated to watch every minute of the show, unlike the casual who only sticks around when something that interests them pops up. Maybe you should revert to that, YNA.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Ahh then I got the injurious wrestlers mixed up.

 

A-Train didn't get hurt from it only because of his build. Nonetheless, he could have gotten seriously hurt.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I'll still watch Raw out of routine, but I get little enjoyment out of the show.

Would you rather RAW have three more people with nothing to do? Steiner can't entertain the crowd? For someone who used to get big pops all the time and still does, that puzzles me.

Take Stacy away for a few weeks and those "big pops" will go with her.

 

The Kim turn gave her a personality and now the fans might actually care. What exactly do you want the division to be too? Do you want it to be faces getting the upperhand then the heel always going over? Isn't that why people don't like Hunter? Because he always gets the win in the end? That's how wrestling is supposed to work. Heel gets upperhand, Face wins in the end. It's put Trish more over than she could have been based on just looks. By my count there's about 7 or 8 women in that division and the matches usually last only about 5 minutes at most. Sometimes more, sometimes less. How 5 minutes is an insane amount of time on a two hour show is beyond me.

Yeah, there are that many women in the division, but right now it's just Trish, Molly, Vicky, and Gail, and Jazz when she comes back. I wouldn't mind the division if they added a few faces. Cause we all known Jaqulien (sp) is never going to get the belt. It shouldn't take up time every week when there' only 4 people in it.

 

You think it's scripted? Nash has been that way since back in 94. That's pretty much why he got so over as a face as Diesel.

I can't really put this into words well how I feel on Nash. I don't even mind Nash as Nash too much. But he's crap in the ring, that much in common knowledge. I just wish they wouldn't keep putting him over Jericho on the mic and in the ring with what little he can do. And Chris will in the hair match, but Nash will win the feud when Jericho could use win.

 

Hunter...I still think there should be a top place for him. But a God title run is insane for the stuff he's producing. He should have jobbed that belt a couple times by now, and giving it to your buddy for a month to get it right back doesn't count.

 

Jericho...he's been Raw's best guy for a long time. I know they keep him near the top, but they keep him weak, just wish he was booked a little stronger.