It's not always a damn carry

[Guest Ray]

One thing that annoys me greatly is when people ASSUME a match is a carry simply because of the names "Angle", "Benoit", "Guerrero", or "Bret."

 

Someone says "Edge can't wrestle." I say watch Unforgiven 2002. They say "of course it's Eddie! He can make anyone look good!"

 

Someone says "Austin can't wrestle." I say watch his matches with Bret, Owen, and Benoit. Watch his match with Angle at Summerslam. They say "Duh! Angle has good matches with anyone!"

 

I'm really tired of this bias, and I see it constantly. Whenever those names appear next to allegedly lesser talent, it's always "they carried the match." Even when it's obvious that they DIDN'T. Watch Austin vs Angle from Summerslam. AUSTIN is the one carrying that match. AUSTIN is the one guiding Angle through it......but when I mention that as one of Austin's best, inevitably someone will say "Angle makes everyone look good."

 

So the point is...stop acting like a match was carried because Angle or Bret is in it.

[KTID 0]

Yeah, that does annoy me. No match thats even decent is a one-sided carry. Matches that are completely carried by one guy are always crap. Hence, someone like Benoit or Eddie v someone like Billy Gunn or Albert will completely suck cause only one side of the match can string two moves together. However, if a match is really good, like Austin/Angle or Eddie/Edge, then clearly both men are contributing.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yeah, people just assume things like that. But, as Bill Murray said in Groundhog Day: "People are morons". I was having a discussion about this the other day on another board, actually.

 

Oh, and I fucking hate the "Kurt Angle can carry anyone" crap because it is bullshit. It was probably started by the same cretin who started "Kurt Angle is the new Flair".

[Guest Kid Kablam]

I agree that frequently there is a bias. I think that the reason that Benoit and Guerrero get so much credit is because they frequently play the heel, and heels usually provide the bulk of the offense and the pace.

I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, and the only one to make the WWE brawling style truly work. From his work in the Hollywood Blondes, to his feud with Dude Love, and especially his feud with Bret Hart. True, Austin didn't have a huge moveset, in fact I might even call his move set downright bland, but he knew psychology really well, and he injected his character into each match better than almost anyone.

[Guest Coffey]

Welcome to the double standard of TSM. Get used to it.

[Guest Ray]

"I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, "

I've been to many, many wrestling forums and I see it all the time.

 

"Austin sucks"

"Austin cant wrestle"

"Austin only does 4 moves"

"Austin only puches he aint a wrestler!"

"Kurt is better than Austin"

[Guest BionicRedneck]

There is a thread in this folder about "Austin used 4 moves blah, blah..."

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

"I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, "

I've been to many, many wrestling forums and I see it all the time.

 

"Austin sucks"

"Austin cant wrestle"

"Austin only does 4 moves"

"Austin only puches he aint a wrestler!"

"Kurt is better than Austin"

I don't know what idiot said those things, but I haven't seen that around here. Or atleast not from anyone who matters. Maybe from a stupid troll.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

"I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, "

I've been to many, many wrestling forums and I see it all the time.

 

"Austin sucks"

"Austin cant wrestle"

"Austin only does 4 moves"

"Austin only puches he aint a wrestler!"

"Kurt is better than Austin"

I don't know what idiot said those things, but I haven't seen that around here. Or atleast not from anyone who matters. Maybe from a stupid troll.

agreed. You have to consider the source. Just because someone calls himself a smark, doens't mean they have intelligence. Most people who know anything about anything know that Austin always made a match entertaining, and frequently excellent.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I will definitely agree that great matches are never carry jobs, but good wrestlers have been known to lead a bad wrestler to atleast a "decent" match.

 

Even Ted DiBiase acknowledged that the great wrestlers will be used to make the bad ones look good.

[Guest Ray]

Those anti-Austin comments weren't made by trolls.....those people actually believed it.

 

Anyone been to wzforums.com?

 

Try yahoo wwf chat too...

 

I will definitely agree that great matches are never carry jobs, but good wrestlers have been known to lead a bad wrestler to atleast a "decent" match.

 

Even Ted DiBiase acknowledged that the great wrestlers will be used to make the bad ones look good.

I'm not saying a match is never a carry.....I'm just saying a match isn't always a carry based on the names of the wrestlers involved.

Edited August 15, 2003 by Ray

[KTID 0]

Oh, and I fucking hate the "Kurt Angle can carry anyone" crap because it is bullshit. It was probably started by the same cretin who started "Kurt Angle is the new Flair".

 

 

Angle love has always bugged me. Especially when compared to HHH hate. Now don't get me wrong, I find HHH as boring as watching David Gray or Toploader. When people praise HHH by citing his matches with Austin, Rock, Foley etc., the HHH haters reply that anyone can have great matches with them. Yet people don't have this same sense of logic when it comes to Angle. The only Angle matches that are in the same league as the above named HHH matches have been against Austin, Rock, Benoit etc. By using the same logic, Angle has proved himself to be as good as HHH, but not the same level as the others i've mentioned. Now i'm not trying to prove HHH is a better wrestler than those here give him credit for, rather that Angle is given far too much praise around here. Now defend that, Angle marks.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Anyone who thinks that Angle carried Austin, let alone at SummerSlam 2001, needs a good slap.

 

RVDMARK, I'm now anticipating Rico, ANKLELOCK, and Y2Kurt (With His Capital Letters) trying to rebut. Should be good.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Y2Kurt is gone I think.

 

Angle is overrated now, but in 2001....Oh boy! It was much, much worse. Isn't Meltzer one of those who totally pimps Kurt as being the man?

[Guest Trivia247]

carrying is mutual. its the act of selling and trying to keep the story in the ring flowing..

 

Many thought a declining Haku was so bad he was uncarriable. Well he probably was but im still a Hakumaniac damn it...but put him in a ring whom will sell and bounce for him and he will look vicious...though he could still Legitly kick everyone's ass.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Y2Kurt is gone I think.

 

Angle is overrated now, but in 2001....Oh boy! It was much, much worse. Isn't Meltzer one of those who totally pimps Kurt as being the man?

Yes, yes he is. I remember reading his blatant disappointment that Angle didn't turn face at the last SD before WM 19.

[Guest Ray]

Angle is overrated now, but in 2001....Oh boy! It was much, much worse. Isn't Meltzer one of those who totally pimps Kurt as being the man?

Didn't you love it when Angle won Wrestler Of The Year in 2001?

 

 

I believe Meltz had said "Angle is the next Flair" as well.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Angle is overrated now, but in 2001....Oh boy! It was much, much worse. Isn't Meltzer one of those who totally pimps Kurt as being the man?

Didn't you love it when Angle won Wrestler Of The Year in 2001?

 

 

I believe Meltz had said "Angle is the next Flair" as well.

Son of A......

 

:Goes to castrate Meltzer:

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Do you like Angle at all or not? Sounds to me that you have more of a problem with Angle Fans than Angle himself.

 

Angle has a bright future in wrestling there's no doubt about that. As long as he can stay healthy.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Summerslam 1992's main event was a great match and Bret's said he was the one who helped Bulldog along in that whole match. The Benoit/Train series on Smackdown had pretty good matches and you know it was all Benoit's doing because he's helping Train who's progressing nicely in the ring.

 

People who hate those saying someone was carried are just mad that there favorites aren't as great in the ring as they thought.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well in the case of Benoit/A-Train I wouldn't say the matches were mat classics. That's a case of a good wrestler drawing a bad or mediocre one to a "decent" match.

 

But A-train is one of the better hosses in WWE.

[Guest Thunder Rising!!!]

Angle might not be as good as people claim but he is no doubt one of the best the WWE can offer now.

 

His psychology still needs some work, but he can get great heat as a heel and a great pop as a face, because he is damn over and that makes him good.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

There's nothing wrong with liking Angle as long as it doesn't get out of control. He is a fun wrestler to watch and a good character.

 

He seems like the kind of guy you'd feel good about representing your company.

[Guest Ray]

Summerslam 1992's main event was a great match and Bret's said he was the one who helped Bulldog along in that whole match. The Benoit/Train series on Smackdown had pretty good matches and you know it was all Benoit's doing because he's helping Train who's progressing nicely in the ring.

 

People who hate those saying someone was carried are just mad that there favorites aren't as great in the ring as they thought.

Did you completely miss the point of this?

 

Of course Benoit made A-Train look good.

 

 

The point is it's wrong to call a match a "carry" when it isn't.

 

Angle/Austin is a clear example of this. I say it's a great match and people respond with "Angle makes everone look good!" :/

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I sincerely hope no one here on this board said that Angle carried Austin.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Well in the case of Benoit/A-Train I wouldn't say the matches were mat classics. That's a case of a good wrestler drawing a bad or mediocre one to a "decent" match.

 

But A-train is one of the better hosses in WWE.

A match doesn't have to be a mat classic to be a good match.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Yeah but the point of this thread was that the "great" matches are not carry jobs.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Summerslam 1992's main event was a great match and Bret's said he was the one who helped Bulldog along in that whole match.

Did you completely miss the point of this?

 

The point is it's wrong to call a match a "carry" when it isn't.

Did you completely miss the point of this you blind Austin mark?

 

It's not wrong to say it if it's been said by wrestlers themselves and I gave one great match that a great wrestler said he carried.

 

EDIT: Against his dead brother-in-law no less so I doubt it's some sort of vendetta

[AndrewTS 0]

"I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, "

I've been to many, many wrestling forums and I see it all the time.

 

"Austin sucks"

"Austin cant wrestle"

"Austin only does 4 moves"

"Austin only puches he aint a wrestler!"

"Kurt is better than Austin"

I could be wrong, but as a proto-smark it seemed to me most of Austin's TV matches after he came back from the original neck surgery (after Owendriver 97) were crap, and were mostly punching and signature moves. He was able to improve from there and create a style that worked for him well--and when he came back after the neck fusion he was having great matches constantly in 2001.

[Guest Ray]

I sincerely hope no one here on this board said that Angle carried Austin.

I don't think anyone here has said it.......but I've seen it many times elsewhere.

 

It all goes back to my original point. People see Angle's name and assume he made the match great.

 

Did you completely miss the point of this you blind Austin mark?

Explain how I am a "blind Austin mark."

 

It's not wrong to say it if it's been said by wrestlers themselves and I gave one great match that a great wrestler said he carried.

Oh god, you DID miss the ENTIRE point.

 

I NEVER said matches are never carries. The ENTIRE POINT is people say a match is a carry when it ISN"T, just because a certain name appears, like Angle.