It's not always a damn carry

[bob_barron 0]

HBK didn't make my list, nor did Benjamin/Haas, Mysterio of some other people. Regardless of all the hate that Triple H gets, he's still a ring general. He may bury people, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't use psychology or sell. Nuzio, Tajiri, Venis & Noble are all underrated. HBK never sells correctly, and his "classic comeback" to me, just exposes the business. Jericho might have been higher, but sometimes he's "off." Same with Hardy.

Just looking through what you said there, I agree completely on HHH and Jericho. HHH has been underrated by a lot of people because he's gotten stuck with a bunch of shitty workers. If he was facing Angle

HHH and Angle have absolutely always (for no apparent reason) sucked together. Unforgiven was boring, and the Rumble was a chore to watch. No Way Out was just awful, mainly because HHH had himself so *ahem* worked out that he could barely move.

They had a great match in October 2000 on RAW. I loved their RR match but if you've never seen a RAW match it's a good HHH v. Angle match

[Guest Anglesault]

1997 - Badd Blood v. Undertaker (Hell in the Cell)

OUTDONE BY?:

Bret/Austin, Wrestlemania XIII

Canadian Stampede 10-man tag.

Owen/Bulldog, RAW (European title tournament finals)

I Pick HiaC in 97 certainly over the ten man and the Euro finals, maybe over Austin/Hart.

[bob_barron 0]

The Euro finals is great I only give it 4.75 cause of the clipping.

[Guest Anglesault]

HBK didn't make my list, nor did Benjamin/Haas, Mysterio of some other people. Regardless of all the hate that Triple H gets, he's still a ring general. He may bury people, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't use psychology or sell. Nuzio, Tajiri, Venis & Noble are all underrated. HBK never sells correctly, and his "classic comeback" to me, just exposes the business. Jericho might have been higher, but sometimes he's "off." Same with Hardy.

Just looking through what you said there, I agree completely on HHH and Jericho. HHH has been underrated by a lot of people because he's gotten stuck with a bunch of shitty workers. If he was facing Angle

HHH and Angle have absolutely always (for no apparent reason) sucked together. Unforgiven was boring, and the Rumble was a chore to watch. No Way Out was just awful, mainly because HHH had himself so *ahem* worked out that he could barely move.

... I loved their RR match

I recall an on the slow side match that was anything but "hot" with about seventeen distractions and a six minute Austin beat down.

The Euro finals is great I only give it 4.75 cause of the clipping.

It's great, but I wouldn't say it had anywhere near the emotion of HiaC. You could almost feel Shawn's need to get the hell out of there for most of the match.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

From the matches I've seen, the great selling of the All-Japan style appears to be based on Kawada selling incredibly for everyone and the other guys selling when it suits them in a vein very similar to Kurt Angle. Misawa and Kobashi are great but its hard to label them as great sellers.

Damn this a big thread, but I'd like to take a moment to address this statement.

 

Before he lost his fucking mind, Misawa was a great seller. He wasn't flashy or "This is the worst pain ever" dramatic, but he was very smart and knew how to put over some one's offense while still going over them. In the 95 CC Finals with Taue, Misawa managed to properly put over all of Taue's bombs while still pulling off a credible epic comeback, not an easy thing to do.

 

Kobashi had some brillant moments, especially in the early 90s, but by 95 his selling degenerated in pop ups, goofy staggering, and all that nonsense. He still had a few moments of greatness, especially in 1/97 against Misawa.

 

On a side note, Jumbo, Hansen, and Taue were all better sellers than Misawa and Kobashi as far 90s All Japan goes.

[bob_barron 0]

I love Hell in a Cell a whole lot- but Bulldog v. Owen is just fantastic wrestling between two of my favourites. I just wish they didn't clip it.

 

I didn't like the catfight (even though HHH laughing cracked me up) but I thought for a heel v. heel match with no backstory- they did a great job

[Guest Anglesault]

I love Hell in a Cell a whole lot- but Bulldog v. Owen is just fantastic wrestling between two of my favourites. I just wish they didn't clip it.

That's actually my huge problem. The first time I saw it (February of 97), I wasn't an Owen fan at all, I didn't care one iota about the belt, and I had no rooting interest in the match. It led to a disasterous level of disinterest that even to this day I can't get into the match. Perhaps if I was more interested and I would have gotten into the match right away and we waxing nostalgic.

[CanadianChick 0]

HIAC is the best match of '97 IMO. I love that match. Although WM 13 is obviouslly a close, close second

[humongous2002 0]

Your right, wrestling is all about personal preference, but their also is something called the GENERAL CONSENSUS. And that always wins in the house. In this case, I went back and looked at Scott Keiths rants and even HE agreed with me on the RVD/Lynn matches even pointing out exactly when RVD got blown up.

There's your problem right there, you need Scott Keith to tell you that a match is either one * or 5*, think on your own if you hated the match that's your choice but if you were entertained by it then good for you. I'm not trying to tell you that RVD is the best worker the WWE has, but i'm not also going to sit here and agreed with your biased remarks.

[KTID 0]

...They really should have given RVD the title back in 1999 when he was fresh in the WWE...

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if this guy even watches wrestling.

[godthedog 0]

hell, they should've given rvd the title back in 97 when he started wrestling there.

 

speaking of 97...

 

austin/hart SMOKES hell in a cell in almost every way possible. the pacing, the booking, the selling, the "powder keg" feeling, and ESPECIALLY the ending.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

HIAC 97 has nothing on Austin/Hart I quit. The WM 13 match had this lil ol thing called substance in it.

Edited August 21, 2003 by RavishingRickRudo

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I like Austin/Bret better than Guerrero/Mysterio actually, although I recognize that the latter is the better pure match.

 

Michaels has had one WWF MOTY as far as I'm concerned, his match against Jeff Jarrett at the July 1995 In Your House.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

From the matches I've seen, the great selling of the All-Japan style appears to be based on Kawada selling incredibly for everyone and the other guys selling when it suits them in a vein very similar to Kurt Angle.  Misawa and Kobashi are great but its hard to label them as great sellers.

Damn this a big thread, but I'd like to take a moment to address this statement.

 

Before he lost his fucking mind, Misawa was a great seller. He wasn't flashy or "This is the worst pain ever" dramatic

Ah, but you see, to me this comes off as something of an excuse for when Misawa decides to not go the whole hog with selling and instead just hold his shoulder in an aggrieved manner as if he had a tiresome itch, which happens to be exactly what he kept sodding doing during the legendary 6/3/94 Kawada match. I don't deny that Misawa and Kobashi could obviously sell to some degree, just that they were awfully selective in their selling and to what degree it would affect their matches. Its interesting you mention 1/97 because it perfectly illustrates what I'm talking about when it comes to these two. You are correct, Kobashi sells that elbow shot off his lariat like a gunshot, and it is indeed beautiful. Equally, Misawa sells the absolute mangling Kobashi gives his arm brilliantly...right up to the point where he decides to start throwing elbows again, to the extent where wins the match with the running elbow that Kobashi had specifically worked the arm to prevent, thus kind of rendering the earlier arm work somewhat pointless. Just my perspective. I haven't seen any Jumbo or Hansen, but I don't include Taue in the list of dodgy AJPW sellers anyway. His offense isn't exactly swank though. I think Kobashi and Misawa are great, as are those AJ matches, but its silly to act like its the perfect style that doesn't have a few holes that can be picked in.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I'm sorry to bring this thread back up, but HITC 97 ain't nobody's MOTY. Unless they are blind. Or retarted.

 

It's a 30 minute squash and Michaels oversells every move, jumping around like a fool. Taker sells NOTHING. Then the Cell which has been constructed to keep everyone in and everyone out does neither. Oh, and the finish fucking sucked.

 

Oh, and whoever said Misawa isn't a good seller is a silly, silly man. The WWE folder isn't really the place to discuss that, though.

[Fökai 0]

I'm sorry to bring this thread back up, but HITC 97 ain't nobody's MOTY. Unless they are blind. Or retarted.

Especially when there's a match from that same year, which salvaged an entire Wrestlemania event. The significance of Hart/Austin II also blows everything from the Stampede tag match to the European Championship Finals out of the water.

[Guest Trivia247]

When you got wrestlers who mesh very well. then you will always get stellar matches us Smarks will cheer for.

 

when you got people who....don't mesh well, and we are stuck watching them in a series of matches then it doesn't call for cheers

 

Alla Regal vs Edge

 

separately two very decent wrestlers but wrestling against each other.... Train wreck