iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 If you were really in a serious all-out fight where you were scared for your well-being, you wouldn't be holding your arm, you'd be trying not to use it to much while you fought as hard as you could and tried not to show weakness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Throwing a man your equal weight from the top rope over your head isn't limiting the use of your arm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 because it's Benoit Silly Rabbit Sorry, forgot. Can't be pointing out the faults of Jesus Christ himself. Sure you can, we are point out the faults of Mr. Hova, Kurt Angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Yeah, but Angle's a 4-time WWE Champion. Therefore, he can't be the martyr of the internet like Benoit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Yeah he can. Angle internet marks outnumber every other mark 50:1. Benoit is the so called martyr of the net because smarks think talent gets titles, so theres an outrage that Benoit should be champion. I dont really like the guy to be honest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Bullshit. Angle has a lot of fans because he's the best all-around performer in the WWE, but Benoit has way more marks scattered across the internet. Almost every other word you hear from most smarks is praising Benoit or bashing HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted August 15, 2003 prepare for the Lynch Mob Syxx... Seriously...haven't we dicussed this FUCKING topic to death? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big McLargeHuge 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 prepare for the Lynch Mob Syxx... Seriously...haven't we dicussed this FUCKING topic to death? About as many times as we've argued Montreal. Speaking of which... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted August 15, 2003 at least montreal means something... its the Pete Rose of wrestling or JFK of Wrestling more appros. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 LYNCH~!?? The only thing Angle can do is mat wrestle, brawl and talk. His selling, like many other wrestlers this side of the Pacific, is limited to 2-5 minutes, as seen in the match with Benoit at the Rumble. You would think he would sell that he is exhausted from the duelling he and Benoit were (insert word here) or that Benoit's crippler crossface limited the use of his arm or strength of his neck/shoulders (I dont remember if he used the Angle slam or not). A year ago or 2 ago you couldn't browse a website without someone going "Kurt Angle is God!~~ He rUlez1!" The reason why you dont see it alot now is either because of TNA's showcasing of more spectactular talent (Sabin, Styles, Daniels, Low Ki) or people just got sick of giving him praise. And please, dont turn this into a TNA vs WWE war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big McLargeHuge 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 How come no one mentions Benoit literally shaking off HHH's leg offense during their No Mercy 2000 match? I'll keep bringing it up until I get an explanation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Benoit shook off Hunter's leg offense. His selling sucks too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted August 15, 2003 How come no one mentions Benoit literally shaking off HHH's leg offense during their No Mercy 2000 match? I'll keep bringing it up until I get an explanation. I'll give you one *IWC MARK MODE ON* Because Christopher Benoit is Jesus Christ and Paul Levensque is the devil's son in law. HHH SUCKS! BENOIT deserves the title damn it! Jericho was held down...Die Vince! *IWC MARK MODE OFF* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big McLargeHuge 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Much better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Time for some selectve quoting: You're certainly right on that one. I never watched WCW because it sucked, and getting Japanese tapes would be way too much work for me. First, WCW didn't suck. They had plenty of good matches. You don't need tapes to watch Benoit's Japanese work. You can download some very good matches from kazaa-lite. www.zeropaid.com is where you can get it. However, I'm judging who the best worker is on what they've done in the last year in the WWE. Judging a wrestler on one year of WWE work is insane. Would you say Ultimo Dragon sucks based on his WWE work? By the way, I think it's funny that you're complaining about Angle throwing suplexes while praising the Austin/Benoit matches. I swear half of the total match time on those was taken up with Germans. The difference is when and how they are done. Benoit didn't always do the multiple germans by the way. How come no one mentions Benoit literally shaking off HHH's leg offense during their No Mercy 2000 match? Hmmm......I don't remember this. I'll watch the tape sometime, then criticize if necessary. Oh wait.......it didn't happen in the last two years so it doesn't matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted August 15, 2003 It seems to me that the entire "WWE brawling style" as exists today was brought into place to cover Austin's declining in-ring ability. That, and to keep guys like Benoit, Eddy, and Jericho from showing him up completely. You made me spit up my breakfast with this one. First off, Jericho has never been as good at Austin in the ring while Austin was active. Maybe you'd put them on even keel if you feel generous, but Jericho 'showing up' Austin is laughable. There was simply no part of Jericho's game thats better than Austins and Steve never had the problem executing basic offense that Jericho still has. Keeping Jericho from doing a Tiger suplex is probably the best thing WWE ever did for him since I don't think I've ever seen him not blow the thing. Secondly, even guys like Eddie and Benoit who are better than Austin in the ring aren't going to make Austin look horrible. Steve simply has too much in ring charisma, psychology, and pacing to allow that to happen. Sure he might not bust out suicide headbutts or frog splashes, but Austin had enough of a game to hang with anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted August 15, 2003 I love it when someone says "How can you say Angle is overrated? He is the best wrestler in WWE...." because it proves just why Angle is overrated. For me, I like Kurt, but he is overrated. Big time. He is really a one trick pony. He can wrestle one style, he can play one charachter and when he tries anything different he can't do it. Anyone who has seen alot of Benoit and alot of Angle will tell you who the better wrestler is. Ditto Eddie. Ditto Austin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted August 15, 2003 "I really don't know where you're getting all the stuff about Austin though. Most people, especially in the IWC aknowledge Austin as a great in ring general, " I've been to many, many wrestling forums and I see it all the time. "Austin sucks" "Austin cant wrestle" "Austin only does 4 moves" "Austin only puches he aint a wrestler!" "Kurt is better than Austin" Anybody that says shit like this obviously has no clue about how people are suppost to work in the ring. There is a reason why Austin is credited as one of the best ever.....and it's not because he sold the most T-shirts...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Watch his match with Angle at Summerslam. They say "Duh! Angle has good matches with anyone!" No offense man, but I don't recall anyone ever saying this as it relates to that particular match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdwardKnoxII 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 While I haven't read all of this thread I look at it like this: It takes two to have a good to great match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Watch his match with Angle at Summerslam. They say "Duh! Angle has good matches with anyone!" No offense man, but I don't recall anyone ever saying this as it relates to that particular match. There is a thread in this folder (The Booker T thread?) which got on the subject of great Austin matches. When the Angle match was brought up, I'm pretty sure someone said "Everyone has a good match with Kurt" (or something similar). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdwardKnoxII 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 3rd point-On carrying matches. There's a point here that's often not discussed when people discuss matches. Pat Patterson-He's the guy that often puts important WWE matches together like Rock vs Hogan. Look at the difference in quality between the last two Rock vs Austin matches at Wrestlemania. I bet it was Patterson who had his hand involved in the first one a lot more since it was the main event making the bout a lot better rather than last year's Wrestlemania Rock vs Austin match which was a lot worse. Well to be fair Austin's neck was in worse shape then what he and the fed first thought so that might have something to do with it also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godthedog 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 While I haven't read all of this thread I look at it like this: It takes two to have a good to great match. unless you're bret hart and you've already promised to give your boss a match that "no one will ever top." then you only need one. about the selling problem: does anyone in the wwf really have great selling now? benoit takes all the germans & gets into all the anklelocks, and i haven't seen eddie do any noticeably good long-term selling lately. anyone else think that they just tell everybody NOT to long-term sell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 The WWE style doesn't allow for great selling when you really think about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godthedog 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 the structure of the angle/benoit series was pretty ripe for great selling. just keep selling the body part after you're out of the submission hold, do fewer german suplexes and do them all-japan style (dropping the guy right on his head and taking longer time between the moves). the germans also allow for the very dramatic "sell while you're doing your own offensive move" angle, since they can sell the neck while they throw their suplexes & fly off the top rope and shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Ok...laughing my ass off at someone thinking NUNZIO can beat ANGLE in a shoot wrestling match. I know Nunzio's a shoot wrestler, but come on...Jericho locked that facelock on Goldberg and imobilised him backstage remember. Jericho doesn't have Angle's amateur wrestling knowledge, and Nunzio's about half the size of Goldberg. Angle would probably take out the cast majority of 'shoot' fighters. Yes, Angle is overrated. You're lucky AS isn't in here... But if you want an example of Angle's 'poor selling', explain to me why Angle is able to hit german and belly to belly overhead suplexes...AFTER Benoit works on his shoulder for a good 5/10 minutes in almost all their matches. People bitch about RVD not seeling, and Edge not selling. If someone works on the body part you use most for your movelist, and you still utilise that movelist in the match without selling the body part for a good 20 seconds...you're not selling to our greatly high standards. Everyone's guilty of it at times I'm sure... And the topic of the thread...it's true. Even if Triple H put on the greatest match of his life against a Benoit or a Jericho, it's a carry job in most people's books because we like to think our favourites are better than those we don't like as much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Goldberg is also a power wrestler who probably doesn't know the difference from a hammerlock and a arm ringer. And wont know how to get out of one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted August 15, 2003 the structure of the angle/benoit series was pretty ripe for great selling. just keep selling the body part after you're out of the submission hold, do fewer german suplexes and do them all-japan style (dropping the guy right on his head and taking longer time between the moves). the germans also allow for the very dramatic "sell while you're doing your own offensive move" angle, since they can sell the neck while they throw their suplexes & fly off the top rope and shit. From the matches I've seen, the great selling of the All-Japan style appears to be based on Kawada selling incredibly for everyone and the other guys selling when it suits them in a vein very similar to Kurt Angle. Misawa and Kobashi are great but its hard to label them as great sellers. Based on what we see right now I say that Angle is better than Benoit, but not as good as Eddie by some distance. Benoit has become a little too routine with his matches, as opposed to Eddie who I swear will come up with something new and different in every match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wildpegasus Report post Posted August 15, 2003 Quote "How come noone mentions Benoit literally shaking off HHH's leg offence during the No Mercy 2000 tag match?" Benoit did a good job here selling. In the match HHH worked on Benoit's leg but he didn't kill it. It wouldn't have made sense for Benoit to sell his leg like it was dead like when Liger sold his arm against Sano. I see some Angle hate going on here during this thread but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. If I didn't know better, I'd say the internet hates everyone! Angle does a lot of great stuff in the ring. He's a very hard worker, a very good bumper, is one of the few wrestlers not afraid to try new moves in the WWE style, has managed to blend well with cruisers and heavies, boasts one of the best overall movesets in wrestling, has a moveset that allows a lot of counters by anyone, has watchable matches with EVERYONE, is very inteallagent in the ring, has innovate counters and is always improving. That's quite a resume. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted August 15, 2003 a very hard worker, So is Trish Stratus a very good bumper So is Randy Orton boasts one of the best overall movesets in wrestling Huh? has watchable matches with EVERYONE Bullshit. is very inteallagent in the ring, has innovate counters and is always improving. I personally wouldn't call his ring work intelligent. Oh, and Angle isn't "Always improving". His matches last year were better than this year. Angle is as good as he gonna get. He is 35, with a knackered neck and wrestling in a company were wrestling doesn't matter. As an in-ring worker Angle is as good as he is gonna get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
