Guest Retro Rob Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 So you'd rather see Benoit, Guerrero, Rhyno, and Tajiri maineventing over Angle and Brock Lesnar? Benoit and Guerrero should be doing something at the WWE title level. No question, but I don't think Rhyno and Tajiri are up to those standards yet. I'd like to see people like those four working WITH Angle and Lesnar. How long can those two carry this show? The argument here isn't whether people should or shouldn't be fighting for the WWE Title. Tajiri and Rhyno shouldn't be, but they also shouldn't be lower than A-TRAIN on the card.
{''({o..o})''} Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 I'm gonna draw a comparison here. Remember before coming to Smackdown, Big Show could have been called unover. But a strong steady push, with a mouthpiece(Heymen), and being booked to capatilize on his strengths not his weeknesses, has gotten Big Show over to the point where he is in the top 3 heels in WWE today. All it will take for A-train to do the same is for them not to give up after 2 weeks and not sabtage it like WWE seems to love doing.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 Big Show's size did a lot to help that. Albert, while big, isn't really big enough to get by on size alone. They aleady have OVER heels to push. Fuck trying to get Albert over. Get someone else MORE over.
{''({o..o})''} Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 And Brock got over from his size a little also. Remember A-Train being about 4-6 inchs taller than Brock during their match? I'm not saying push him because he's big bt if they f'ing used him right we wouldn't be having this conversation. Well I've been defending A-train for over 24 hours now and have said my piece so you have a nice time you all and it's been fun debating.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 And Brock got over from his size a little also. Remember A-Train being about 4-6 inchs taller than Brock during their match?He's like 6'8, which is huge. But when you have like a dozen guys bigger than that, really, who the fuck cares?
{''({o..o})''} Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 True, the great giants in history got over because they were unique. And if you have nothing but they lose their mystique.
Guest Retro Rob Posted August 15, 2003 Report Posted August 15, 2003 I'm gonna draw a comparison here. Remember before coming to Smackdown, Big Show could have been called unover. But a strong steady push, with a mouthpiece(Heymen), and being booked to capatilize on his strengths not his weeknesses, has gotten Big Show over to the point where he is in the top 3 heels in WWE today. All it will take for A-train to do the same is for them not to give up after 2 weeks and not sabtage it like WWE seems to love doing. The Big Show is a giant and A-Train is not in that same giant category. The thing with Show is that his heat never sunk to the level that A-Train had at his PEAK. Show naturally generated some heat whether he was a heel or face because of his charisma.
Guest TheGame2705 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Name all the pushes A-Train's gotten. Everyone acts like the guy got the Brock Lesnar push. The only thing resembling a push given to him was when he was hotshotted the IC title.
iggymcfly Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Name all the pushes A-Train's gotten. Everyone acts like the guy got the Brock Lesnar push. The only thing resembling a push given to him was when he was hotshotted the IC title. That's so true. In five years, he's gotten one short feud with Kane, one short feud with Edge, and one short feud with Undertaker. And even despite that, he's gotten over as a heel. If Cena and Hardy are more over as heels than A-Train, (which I'm not convinced of,) then it's because they've had ten times the television time he has. Would the Cena marks out there really be happy if he'd gotten A-Train's latest "push" as Vince's lackey? I think not. As for Spanky, he was perfect for his role as Brock Lesnar's prison bitch, but he wouldn't work out too well as a serious threat to the Undertaker.
Vyce Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 At best he's a decent worker. But he's not over, he's NEVER been over, and arguably he never will be. And that's the long and short of it. The guy has been with the company for years now, and the WWE has yet to give me a single reason to care about him. At all. Meanwhile, the guys I can and often do care about, the Spankys / Ultimo Dragons / Kanyons, etc., get nowhere near the exposure as A-Train.
Guest TheGame2705 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 At best he's a decent worker. But he's not over, he's NEVER been over, and arguably he never will be. And that's the long and short of it. The guy has been with the company for years now, and the WWE has yet to give me a single reason to care about him. At all. Meanwhile, the guys I can and often do care about, the Spankys / Ultimo Dragons / Kanyons, etc., get nowhere near the exposure as A-Train. Sean O'Haire wasn't over and he jobbed out Hogan to boot. He was also hooked up with Piper. How he failed to get over with all of that is beyond me. <sarcasm>OMG HUGE MEGA PUSH FOR SEAN O'HAIRE </sarcasm> It's arguable if Ultimo is over or if it's just his entrance. Kanyon to my knowledge has never been that over as well either so you can't say Kanyon and Ultimo deserve it more based on overness.
{''({o..o})''} Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Well, he was over as the Hip Hop Hippo, but he was teamed with the charasmatic Scotty 2 Hotty. They way they turned him sucked pretty bad but lead to the great line "You made me dance for you!". Boy, there is almost an A-Train Alliance going on here. Kinda weird that I'm in it so much especially since I'm not a huge A-Train fan.
Spaceman Spiff Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Sean O'Haire wasn't over and he jobbed out Hogan to boot I wouldn't say he "jobbed out Hogan". Hogan had O'Haire beat, and the only reason SOH won was because Hogan went after Vince, causing a count-out.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 And even despite that, he's gotten over as a heel "Shave your back!" Is not over as a heel! The only thing resembling a push given to him was when he was hotshotted the IC title. Where he was such an awful choice that his loss to a heel in the evil alliance got a big pop. No one can pinpoint exactly what Albert has done to deserve a push. It sure as hell isn't his heat. It's not his skills, because there are plenty better than him. What is it?
Guest TheGame2705 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 A better question is when were his pushes? Every mentions these ghost pushes.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 He's like Test. Every couple of months, they try something small, it bombs big time, they kill it quick, and, for no discernable reason, shows up higher on the card a month later. Intercontinental belt over Kane was big, but no one cared, so it was killed. He was fucking around with the top guys last year, but no one cared. He had a deal with Taker and Show and Jones this year, but no one cared. He's ever gotten a HUGE push, and everytime they try to start something, the crowd shits all over it. And they keep trying.
{''({o..o})''} Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 He's been a model employee, willing to listen to advice from anyone backstage, rotates and adds to his moveset more than any other big man, has managed to stay injury free during his whole tenure in WWE, and something alot of you seem to forget wrestling was, is now, and will always be a type of sideshow attraction where a unique look is a bonus.
Guest TheGame2705 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Intercontinental belt over Kane was big, but no one cared, so it was killed. He was fucking around with the top guys last year, but no one cared. He had a deal with Taker and Show and Jones this year, but no one cared. He's ever gotten a HUGE push, and everytime they try to start something, the crowd shits all over it. And they keep trying. No one cared because even though it came out of nowhere it wasn't treated like anything special. Bret Hart's WORLD title defenses against Skinner, Virgil, and Berserker were put over as big wins for him. They didn't do any of that for Train to help his title reign since he got it for no reason. He was involved in the main event scene for about a month and no one cared because his only big win was over someone not in the main. He would constantly get his ass handed to him by Taker. He also had no reason to beat up Rey. You think it's all Train's fault no one cared he and Show were fighting Taker and Jones on the undercard? They've tried to do the same thing they've done with a lot of people by throwing him out and expecting him to get over without any sort of support from booking.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 No one cared because even though it came out of nowhere it wasn't treated like anything special. Bret Hart's WORLD title defenses against Skinner, Virgil, and Berserker were put over as big wins for him. They didn't do any of that for Train to help his title reign since he got it for no reason. I wouldn't call Rob's (1st) run with the IC belt heatless and his win had less build up than Albert's and it was a totally meaningless win with minimal effort put into it. He was involved in the main event scene for about a month and no one cared because his only big win was over someone not in the main. Again, Rob Van Dam was suddenly pushed into the main with HHH where he ws only there for a month and defeated soundly (Something Albert wasnt) and he wasn't heatless afterwards. You think it's all Train's fault no one cared he and Show were fighting Taker and Jones on the undercard? People tend to care about Undertaker feuds. It wasn't Taker's fault. That reminds me. Albert got on to Mania, despite being totally heatless (Ditto for Summerslam), while other more deserving people with real heat got shoved off. I'd call that part of a push. They've tried to do the same thing they've done with a lot of people by throwing him out and expecting him to get over without any sort of support from booking. He should ask Booker or RVD or Jericho how they do it.
EricMM Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 I think a lot of people get mad at Albert when they realize people they liked like Raven got fired when they kept Albert. Albert hasn't ever done anything noteworthy, IMO. I mean that PERIOD. he's never pulled a good match out of anyone. Even Funaki has made people look good.
SteakGrowsOnUecker Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 All Funaki does is just get destroyed. Zach Gowen has proven that it isn't hard to get destroyed when you're little. A-Train is little he can't get thrown around like a rag doll. He's the one who should be throwing someone around like a rag doll. A-Train has had some good matches with Benoit and Lesnar. A-Train is one of JR's boys. He likes him because he's a big hoss. The WWE needs atleast a few beasts around like A-Train. Atleast this isn't 94/95 where half the roster was over 300 pounds and couldn't wrestle. A-Train shows emotion in the ring too. Not many guys yell and bellow and sound insane anymore. It's part of his hoss gimmick.
Damaramu Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Well there was when he took Matt Hardy's push last year.....and then totally bombed it.
The Ghost of bps21 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 I can't understand how this thread has been going this long. One of the early posts said "If A-Train was having *** matches all the time we'd still bitch". Well...that's something that's an unknown since it isn't happening. In fact. Just because it will destroy the credability of anyone who tries to... Name me ONE *** match A-Train has put on.
Guest Ray Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Name me ONE *** match A-Train has put on. vs. Benoit vs. Lesnar If you rate loose they might be ***
RavishingRickRudo Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 Exactly. Albert may have a nifty moveset, hits hard, works hard "for a big guy", etc. etc. But it doesn't translate into good matches. I mean, I LIKE Albert matches, I liked his match vs. Taker w. Big Show at Mania and expect the Summerslam match to be decent... but thats it... decent. Nothing to toot his horn about or cry outrage that he isn't getting as far as he should. I think he needs to be sent away to OVW for a while, repackaged, and sent back to the WWE as a new man. Possibly as a bodyguard for an up-and-comer. RRR: Believes in the "go away for a while, come back with new talent" process in rebuilding a wrestler.
The Ghost of bps21 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 When were these matches...and how loose are we talking. The A-Train/Benoit match I remember seeing on SD! a while back was one where I thought..."Good for an A-Train match" but not *** at all. I missed Lesnar/A-Train
The Ghost of bps21 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 I actually liked that Mania match too, RRR. I don't know why...but it worked real well for me.
Guest Ray Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 When were these matches...and how loose are we talking. The A-Train/Benoit match I remember seeing on SD! a while back was one where I thought..."Good for an A-Train match" but not *** at all. I missed Lesnar/A-Train Don't know and very loose. I enjoyed Lesnar/A-Train quite a bit. A-Train was bumping his ass off for Brock. One of the best hoss matches I've seen.
The Ghost of bps21 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 That's Lesnar's real strength...more than I can imgine having a great match with Benoit... He has GOOD matches with guys like Taker, Big Show and other hosses. He's like...the ultimate Hoss!
Damaramu Posted August 16, 2003 Report Posted August 16, 2003 It reminded me of WM3 for some reason. I mean the big guys in the match doing the adominal stretch and helping each other in a giant open stadium....I just had this nostalgic feeling when I watched it.
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