Non-wrestlers dominating Raw

[Ultra Violence 0]

To be honest if Shane wants to wrestle they should stick him in a mask, give him a character and use him as a bump machine

[Bruiser Chong 0]

...or not. Why would they take Shawn Michaels, who's already a special attraction, stick him under a mask and have him bump like crazy? If he's going to bump, you can bet it'll be in cases where everyone will see it and know it's him.

[nl5xsk1 0]

The only positive way to spin this is to have Kane destroy Shane at the PPV, further creating the aura of an unbeatable, un-damage-able monster. I mean, he'd have come back from being engulfed in flames without a single bit of damage, unless they're going to try to create some burns again.

 

Of course, where does he go from there? Feuding with Goldberg? Beating Hurricand and Rosey in handicap matches? Helping Coach in his feud against JR and the King? They're booked into a corner.

[Downhome 0]

*still very very angry over RAW*

[iggymcfly 0]

I guess I was the only one on here, but I thought Raw was really great. Every segment throughout the night was exciting and interesting. They even used logic on stuff lke the Coach heel turn where a year or two ago, they wouldn't have even bothered. Maybe if you were watching the show to enjoy the segments instead of counting the number of wrestlers on it, you would have had a better time.

 

The reason RVD wasn't on the show is that he was selling the tombstone on the steel steps that happened a day ago. It would have been ridiculous to have him on the show a day after that. And say all you want about Shane, but I'd rather see him wrestle than Booker T anyday. The main event was fine for what it was.

 

Oh, and one more thing. Why isn't Jerry Lawler allowed to wrestle. He was a 41-time Mid South champion, and I'm pretty damn sure he's younger than Ric Flair. He's a legend in his own right, and if he wants to step into the ring a few times a year, he should be allowed to.

 

I think the problem is that people don't understand what the purpose of a wrestling show is. It's not to "get over" all the wrestlers on the roster. It's to entertain the fans. If they're more entertained by seeing Austin give an interview than they are by watching Test and Christian tag against Steiner and Nash again, then that's what the WWE should give them.

 

And then people say, when did the WWE give that focus to non-wrestlers before 1998. Well the answer is that they didn't. But how often did the WWE get 4.0 ratings for Raw before 1998? They didn't. The business evolved in a positive manner there, not a negative one.

 

The only problem I had with the show was Kane being burned alive. I mean, if that were real, how would he possibly survive? He should be dead. And if he's dead, then his whole push is for nothing. I'd really like to see them get out of this one with it still making sense.

 

Except for that one little blip though, (which I could give them the benefit of the doubt on since I don't know where they're going with this angle,) the show was very good and reminded me more of the old Raws from '99 than the crap from a year ago.

Edited August 26, 2003 by iggymcfly

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

I think the problem is that people don't understand what the purpose of a wrestling show is. It's not to "get over" all the wrestlers on the roster. It's to entertain the fans. If they're more entertained by seeing Austin give an interview than they are by watching Test and Christian tag against Steiner and Nash again, then that's what the WWE should give them.

See, that's the problem: "over" means accepted by the fans, in other words, entertaining.

 

And I don't find the people presented as top faces on Raw (JR and the invincible Shane McMahon) entertaining in the slightest. And the vast majority of fans, from the casual marks to the diehards on the internet, agree with me. You'll notice they don't quite pull the 4.0's they did in 98 today, do they?

 

The problem with WWE today is, starting around 1999 or so, they stopped referring to the wrestlers as wrestlers and instead exclusively as "superstars". This was kind of dumb, but not really a big deal in itself. However, than the mentality became that any and everyone on TV was also a superstar, since there was no longer a distinction between wrestlers and everyone else. Now we have a situation where Vince has convinced himself that people want to see him, his brats, his catatonic wife, and the hack announce team on-screen and with storylines just as much as the lowly wrestlers, if not more so. Hence, the current product is ass.

[Downhome 0]

*still awaiting Johnson's examples to back up his bullshit*

[iggymcfly 0]

Raw got a 4.2 rating this week, and has averaged about a 4.0 over the last month or two. And what I'm saying is that if someone like Test or Steiner isn't interesting, giving them wins in a bunch of matches every show to "put them over" isn't a good idea. They should just put out the guys like Austin and Goldberg that people want to see. Oh, and Goldberg's the top face on Raw. Austin's #2. How you put JR in there is beyond me.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Look DH, I know what I watched back in the 80's and early 90's. Although I am not a internet geek who has that information filed away in a cabinet somewhere. I can remember Heenan and Ted playing roles in order to set up a storyline.

 

If that isn't the "proof" you wanted then I am sorry. I don't make it a habit of keeping up with every single thing that has happened in the biz for the past two decades.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Look DH, I know what I watched back in the 80's and early 90's. Although I am not a internet geek who has that information filed away in a cabinet somewhere. I can remember Heenan and Ted playing roles in order to set up a storyline.

But Heenan never put himself before his charges. Big Difference there.

 

For a good example of that, watch the 1992 Royal Rumble match, and how he plugs Flair.

[Downhome 0]

Look DH, I know what I watched back in the 80's and early 90's.  Although I am not a internet geek who has that information filed away in a cabinet somewhere.  I can remember Heenan and Ted playing roles in order to set up a storyline. 

 

If that isn't the "proof" you wanted then I am sorry.  I don't make it a habit of keeping up with every single thing that has happened in the biz for the past two decades.

If you were mistaken, then just say you were wrong and that'll be that.

 

You said that non-wrestlers have ALWAYS dominated the sport, just as they did last night. All I want is on example of were non-wrestlers dominated the sport as they do today, just one. Just one example of where the wrestlers were nothing more than pawns in the non-wrestlers storylines. It wasn't just one small angle last night where a non-wrestler was involved, oh no. It was THREE angles, each which are the most high profile on RAW at the moment, where the storyline is all about the non-wrestlers. This has never happened before, and it's fucking pathetic.

 

Either give me an example, or admit that you are wrong, that's all. If you can't backup what you say, then please, refrain from wasting our time.

[Downhome 0]

By the way, for all three of those bullshit storylines last night, NONE of them is leading to a bigger storyline.

 

As for King/JR/Coach, it will just lead to Coach having a job at the booth or something. No wrestler will get anything out of this.

 

As for the McMahon saga, well, this is just another one of their family feuds, Vince/Linda/Shane, blah blah blah, you know the story there. The Vince/Bishoff/Linda shit will not lead to anything helping to put over a worker, period.

 

As for Kane/Shane, that's already fucked. Shane made Jericho, a WORKER, to look like a complete ass, as he was just a fucking pawn. The Kane/Shane shit also made RVD look worthless. Kane destroyed RVD the night before, and on RAW, Shane just destroyed Kane by pushing him into fire. No matter where this leads now, it's already hurt a couple of workers.

 

Unless Kane DESTROYS Shane, this is totally worthless shit doing nothing but putting the McMahons over once again. Hell, even if Kane wins it will mean nothing. What does it prove by having a worker wrestle a non-wrestler? To me, it shows and tells me nothing at all.

[iggymcfly 0]

This is totally worthless shit doing nothing but ENTERTAINING THE FANS. This is how you build your fanbase, and end up earning way more money in the long run. Back in 1992, they couldn't even dream of drawing a 4.2 rating for Raw.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

And what I'm saying is that if someone like Test or Steiner isn't interesting, giving them wins in a bunch of matches every show to "put them over" isn't a good idea.

But Shane-O is horribly uninteresting too and he seems to win quite a bit. Test and Steiner, say what you will about them, are still at least wrestlers. Shane is the boss's kid living out his fantasies at our viewing expense. Even a shitty wrestler like Test and Steiner should absolutely anniahlate Shane, let alone former champs Kane and Jericho.

 

They should just put out the guys like Austin and Goldberg that people want to see.

 

I agree completely. Problem is we get the guys the McMahons want to see- themselves.

 

Oh, and Goldberg's the top face on Raw. Austin's #2. How you put JR in there is beyond me.

 

Goldberg is not built up as the top face on Raw. JR gets more screen time than him. And I'm not talking about behind the booth, I'm talking about actually front and center in the ring involved in angles.

 

As for Austin, I'm one of the biggest Austin fans you'll find but even I can admit that at this point he shouldn't be the #2 face on Raw. He'll probably always be the most loved by the fans, and I have no problem with that. But he shouldn't be taking up all the top storylines on Raw that could go to a guy who still wrestles.

[Downhome 0]

This is totally worthless shit doing nothing but ENTERTAINING THE FANS. This is how you build your fanbase, and end up earning way more money in the long run. Back in 1992, they couldn't even dream of drawing a 4.2 rating for Raw.

First of all, a shows rating is more of a guide to go by to tell you what the fans thought of the last RAW or the previous night's PPV, not the show itself. Wait untill next week to see if people are interested in what happened last night. Besides that, the ratings have been a constant 3.8-4.2 for weeks now, a 4.2 rating means nothing right now, unless it keeps going up.

 

The ratings isn't even the issue, so forget that.

 

The fact is that WWE is allowing non-workers to dominate their RAW program, period. This is a Pro. Wrestling show, and the WRESTLERS are the ones which the time and energy should be invested in into promoting and building up. It's nothing new, but WWE is focusing on the wrong group of people. It isn't a matter of if the ratings are up and down...

 

...it's a matter of their treating the true heart and soul of their business of choice, like bullshit.

[iggymcfly 0]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

[Downhome 0]

As for Austin, I'm one of the biggest Austin fans you'll find but even I can admit that at this point he shouldn't be the #2 face on Raw. He'll probably always be the most loved by the fans, and I have no problem with that. But he shouldn't be taking up all the top storylines on Raw that could go to a guy who still wrestles.

As for Austin, if it was me, I wouldn't have him on TV period right now. I would have promoted his last match as his "last match ever", and allowed him to just fade away as other greats have done in the past.

 

The Stone Cold Steve Austin character is not a GM, not a president, not a CEO, and not a manager. He kicked ass, and didn't take shit from no one. There isn't a posistion he can be in which will go along with his character.

 

Right now, he makes the actual workers on the show look like shit when he beats them up. None of the workers can EVER get their heat back from him after he beats them up, because the guy can't take a beating anymore.

 

Aside from all of that, the current Austin is just making his history look like shit. It hurts me to see him become what he's become. If he can't be STONE COLD, then just take him off of TV and allow me to have my memories of him as he should be rememberd. All I see right now is a broken down legend, who makes everyone look bad that he works with.

 

A GM role is NOT something for Stone Cold.

[Downhome 0]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

I agree with you, and I love seeing Shane on TV. I admit, I mark out for him

 

HOWEVER.

 

There is no excuse of putting him over talent, there is no excuse for allowing him to destroy actual workers.

 

Shane should simply do what he does best, that being, take bumps. Shane should be a pawn in a storyline between two wrestlers, not the other way around.

[Guest Trivia247]

All Shane is good for is his micwork his underdog style for other wrestlers and taking the big bumps that make him disappear for months

 

Him Dominating ANYONE should not be allowed.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

He is NOT A WRESTLER. I don't know how much more I can dumb it down for you than that. When I flip on Raw I want to see the wrestlers fighting, not the boss's kid fighting. If people in the arenas pop for him out of habit or politeness, that's there problem. It doesn't change the fact he bores the shit out of me.

 

And its not just taking screen time from Test, Steiner, and Nash: worry more that he's taking time from RVD. Since you're so impressed with Shane's pops, think back to when RVD was the most popular guy on the roster and regularly outpopped even Austin and Rock. (unless you take WWE Revisonist History 101 that RVD was always a boring lowcarder)

 

Or worry that last night he made two main eventers in Kane and Jericho look like absolute jokes. Was anyone clamoring to see that?

[iggymcfly 0]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

He is NOT A WRESTLER. I don't know how much more I can dumb it down for you than that. When I flip on Raw I want to see the wrestlers fighting, not the boss's kid fighting. If people in the arenas pop for him out of habit or politeness, that's there problem. It doesn't change the fact he bores the shit out of me.

That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

He is NOT A WRESTLER. I don't know how much more I can dumb it down for you than that. When I flip on Raw I want to see the wrestlers fighting, not the boss's kid fighting. If people in the arenas pop for him out of habit or politeness, that's there problem. It doesn't change the fact he bores the shit out of me.

That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

Funny...everyone that I've talked to, Smark and Mark alike, want Shane to not wrestle reguarly. They want WRESTLERS.

 

And that's at least 100 people right there.

[Downhome 0]

How do you know the fans want Shane to be wrestling instead of say, RVD or any other actual worker?

[Guest Trivia247]

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV.

 

It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

He is NOT A WRESTLER. I don't know how much more I can dumb it down for you than that. When I flip on Raw I want to see the wrestlers fighting, not the boss's kid fighting. If people in the arenas pop for him out of habit or politeness, that's there problem. It doesn't change the fact he bores the shit out of me.

That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

Funny...everyone that I've talked to, Smark and Mark alike, want Shane to not wrestle reguarly. They want WRESTLERS.

 

And that's at least 100 people right there.

well OBVIOUSLY your 100 people simply must be WRONG

 

because iggy and the WWE wants Shane...

 

 

they need Shane..

.

 

SHANE = RATINGS!!

 

who needs wrestlers right?

 

 

Wrestling...On a Wrestling Show???

 

BAH GAWD thats so........... Every year up to 2003

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

I speak for the majority. No one I know in real life wants to see Shane, and even on the internet it seems to only be a few who do. Stop projecting buddy, you're the one in the misguided minority here, not me.

 

You want to talk fanbase? Fine. RVD has a fanbase that'll tune in to watch him. Austin has a fanbase. Jericho has a fanbase. Kane has a fanbase. Goldberg has a fanbase. Even HHH has a fanbase...

 

 

Who the hell puts on Raw to watch Shane?

[Downhome 0]

That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

I speak for the majority. No one I know in real life wants to see Shane, and even on the internet it seems to only be a few who do. Stop projecting buddy, you're the one in the misguided minority here, not me.

 

You want to talk fanbase? Fine. RVD has a fanbase that'll tune in to watch him. Austin has a fanbase. Jericho has a fanbase. Kane has a fanbase. Goldberg has a fanbase. Even HHH has a fanbase...

 

 

Who the hell puts on Raw to watch Shane?

Johnson and iggymcfly?

 

I still want examples Johnson. Like I said, don't talk the talk if you can't back it up.

[iggymcfly 0]

Hey, I can't decide this on someone's little group of friends. All I know is that every time he comes on TV, he gets a massive pop, and the crowd's up and alive throughout his matches. When Steiner got overpushed, he got booed. When Nash got overpushed, he got booed. When Goldberg got overpushed, he got booed. Shane's beaten the Big Show on PPV, beaten Kurt Angle in a sub-main event at KOR, faced Jericho, and feuded with Kane, and he got nothing but massive pops. If the majority of fans or even a large minority thought he was getting overpushed, you'd be hearing at least a few boos on Raw. Judging by the live crowds, I'd say at least 90% of the fans like Shane and like seeing him face big name wrestlers. 90% of the 4.9 million people who watched Shane's main event against Jericho would be almost 4.5 million people.

 

Is that enough facts for you?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Show me some proof that fans want to pay the dinero to see Shane do this thing.

 

Hell, it's been two days and already there are rumors that Summerslam got 30% less buys than last year. "But UNFORGIVEN will be BETTER!"

[MrRant 0]

Jesus Christ how many times can you people post the EXACT SAME TOPIC? Week after week after week.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Probably the same amount of times the McMahons want to take up TV.