The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Let's not start this again...

 

..geez, you could have at least included Angel's bads.

 

The BEAST

Glory

Holtz

Jasmine

The Mayor

Angelus

Hamilton

WR&H (Lindsay, Lilah, Mathers, etc)

Caleb

Spike

Darla

Adam

Dru

The Master

The First

Warren & Friends

Evil Cordy

[Mole 0]

Hmm...

 

THE BEAST

Angelus/Spike/Dru

The Mayor/Faith

The Wolf, the Ram, & the Hart

Glory

Holtz

Trio

Jasmine

Darla

Master

Adam

The First

[Guest Brian]

That big role Angel was supposed to play in the apocalypse. what if it happened last season? He was the reason Spike got the amulet.

[Anya 0]

I watched lessons. FE's speech at the end is so awesome! What ever came of the "we're going back to the beginning".....

 

 

Ranking the big bads its like impossible. I change my mind all the time, based on what I just recently saw.

 

 

Warren

Adam

Angel

First

Wilkins

Glory

Master

 

 

The Angel bads just don't compare and most are ultimatly cronies for W&H. I like Lilah and Lindsay the most though.

[Guest Brian]

Beast

Angellus

Holtz

Wolfram and Hart

Mayor

Glory

Circle of Black Thorn (not given enough time but the concept was real strong)

Trio

Adam

Darla

Master

Jasmine

First

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Too many lists, my head hurts.

 

And, according to Whedonesque, what is Angel season 5 MVP Amy Acker doing now that the series is over?

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

"Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation"

 

Right.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Poor Amy Acker.

 

Anyways,

 

The Mayor

Angelus

Glory

Master

Trio

Adam

The First

 

I'll do an Angel one after. I have no idea why Holtz is better than WR&H, or most of the Buffy big bads. Holtz wasn't nearly as badass as he could/should have been.

[Ravenbomb 0]

TCM: The Next Generation already came out, and Amy Acker wasn't in it.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

No, this is supposedly some new version of the movie.

 

It's about halfway down the page.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Now I know why she was crying at the convention after they announced Angel was cancelled. Poor Amy. She's really a great actress, she deserves better.

 

IMO, Glory is overrated. She was something new and all, but she really wasn' that interesting by herself. Ironicall, the Trio gets overlooked a lot for how little they did during the first 4/5 of the season, but when you look back they were really entertaining.

[Anakin Flair 0]

so, what, are they going to re-do EVERY TVM movie?

[Anya 0]

Glory's minions are really cool. I love it when she throws her shoe at one, and the Bob Barker thing in Intervention.

 

 

Adam is so underrated. Why do people hate him?

[Mole 0]

I'll do an Angel one after. I have no idea why Holtz is better than WR&H, or most of the Buffy big bads. Holtz wasn't nearly as badass as he could/should have been.

Holtz was a VERY interesting character because he wasn't really bad. He was just trying to get vengenance on Angel, which he has every right to. That is one of the reasons why I like Holtz so much.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Cause that whole thing was goofy. However, Adam having a god complex was great.

[Anya 0]

Adam's voice makes up for the silly costume.

[Ravenbomb 0]

plus, his plan was almost like Yojimbo, and Yojimbo kicks ass (and so does Gunn for having a Yojimbo poster in his office in season 5)

[Guest Brian]

The problem with the trio was it was such a leap for me to take them seriously. It's like the scoobies sans Buffy's strength and Willow's magic (and Xander without an eye). As in their weak. With a capital W - E - A - K. They're entertaining, just not believable.

 

Holtz was fucking awesome. He just had that dry wit to him. And he was such a fucking badass with letting vengeance push him on. He took out WR&H's special team in seconds. He survived Quart'Toth. And he pulled off his master plan at the end of Season 3. Besides all that, he chased Darla and Angellus across Europe for almost a decade, and the were SCARED. And there was that duplicity with him, where he was a good guy but totally ruthless, and his motivations were right but his actions were wrong.

[Mole 0]

The problem with the trio was it was such a leap for me to take them seriously. It's like the scoobies sans Buffy's strength and Willow's magic (and Xander without an eye). As in their weak. With a capital W - E - A - K. They're entertaining, just not believable.

That was the whole point behind them. Buffy went from fighting a GOD, to just three geeks. Since the season was more about growing up/living life, they made the Big Bads just normal guys.

 

They were supposed to be "weak." Buffy saved the world from a God, went to heaven, then came back just to fight three geeks. The writers said they enjoyed them the most as Big Bads because they were the best to write for.

 

I forgot how Noxon and Fury explained it, but they do on the "Bargaining" commentary I believe.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And "weak" villains suck.

 

In other news, Brian is the motherfucking MAN for that Holtz explanation.

[Mole 0]

Yes they do "suck" but it fit into the theme of the season, which was more about the villians within themselves than the Geek Trio.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That theme, also sucks. Cause it leads to Buffy fucking the house down with Spike and working fast food, Willow getting hopped up on Magic, and Season 6 sucking major ass...

[Guest Brian]

The more I think about season 6, the less I like it. The three were basically a plot device, for Willow to OD or whatnot.

[Guest Goodear]

Dudes, I was just using the big bads to remind myself what seasons cooresponded with which numbers. I love Season Adam not so much because of Adam (who I still liked, screw it) but because I loved the episodes that much and ... well I liked Riley. I know... I know.

 

Goodear's Top Evil Ten Evil List of Evil Guys (not including Angel Seasons Post 3 or Buffy Season 7 because I haven't seen them)

 

1) Spike Pre-Chip (I love the differences between Spike and Evil Angel - Spike is like a berserker who lives for combat and a freaking warrior... Angel is like a serial killer. And the time he stands up in the wheelchair after being crippled for so long? Money.)

 

2) Adam (Evil Messiah guy rules it as a Jim Jones for the demons. I love him. I want to have little Adam babies. Man they so should have done more with the guy since he doesn't really accomplish much, but the spots that he did have were awesome.)

 

3) Evil Angel (I can't spell Angelous. Sue me. Anyway like I said before, evil serial killerish... but a little too playul to be chilling for me. Like he's killing fish and crap when he could be having a nice slaughter. Bonus points for killing Jenny Calender though.)

 

4) Faith + Mayor (Its like a duo that I can't seperate. The loving nature between the two was awesome character wise but I would have liked the Mayor to be a bit more active in his role. Seemed like he did a lot of standing around and not enough evil. I love me the evil.)

 

5) Lindsey - I almost like Lindsey more for his attitude than anything else. "Evil hand! CHARRRRLIE!" was the number one and best monolouge in Angel land for Goodear. He had a bit of a problem actually doing anything right, but hey, they can't all be winners.

 

6) Druscilla - She's a wacky pack and managed to off Kendra and turn Darla the second time and she broke Spike's heart and that's sort of mean. But I like my villains to be a little more sinsister than crazy so she's a little lower.

 

7) Glory - Like I said Sinsister > Crazy and Dru was SOOOO crazier than Glory in a way that wasn't grabbing her head and being all 'Meeeehhh!' I'm not a big Glory fan which will make RRR explode but I don't know... being really, really strong was kind of a boring gimmick to me.

 

8) Trio (Big Jonathan fan here and love his earlier appearances in Earshot and Superstar but the Trio was more of a plot device than anything else to show off the 'diminished' nature of Buffy and the rest. I love the Idea Men nature of the group though. What's the big idea? Well we thought we'd steal a lot of money and then we'd never have to work again! Plus big ban saws... ban saws rule.)

 

9) Lilah (I hear she does a lot more in season 4, but up until then she seems more catty than dangerous. She doesn't seem to ever win and its just not quite as effective although bonus points for blowing away the misogynist evil guy Billy)

 

10) Master (Ehhhh... kind of generically rat-faced evil.)

[Mole 0]

That theme, also sucks. Cause it leads to Buffy fucking the house down with Spike and working fast food, Willow getting hopped up on Magic, and Season 6 sucking major ass...

 

The more I think about season 6, the less I like it. The three were basically a plot device, for Willow to OD or whatnot.

Which also set up Spike getting his soul, which lead him to Angel season 5 which ruled all.

[Ripper 0]

You know why Adam sucked? He wasn't a major threat. I mean, he really had a pussy ass plan when you think about it.

 

He wanted to put togeter a bunch of demon man things....o...kay...then what? SO. They would be men with fucked up apendages, OOOHHHH scarey.

 

His plan for domination was just extremely lame and thats why noone cared about his plan. Hell, the scoobies didn't really care honestly. The show focused a ungodly amount on Buffy/Riley more than it ever did any other relationship on the show (well, Spike Buffy did get alot of airtime, but it would take the back burner in some eps)

 

Adam, in theory, was pretty kick ass with his god complex andall. But he had a lame plan, a lame costume, and lame followers. All he had going for him was some cool lines and cool voice. That doesn't make a great big bad.

 

I like Season 4, I just don't really care for how the inititive was handled. A coulda been great concept that got bogged down by too much Buffy/Riley lovey dovey shit.

 

And bite your tounges for dissing season 6.

[Anya 0]

I take Adam pretty seriously as a threat. He looks really strong in all his appearances.

 

The problem with his plan is that zombie Walsh, zombie Angleman and cyber Forest look extremely dumb. I really like the actual plan, about setting up the soldiers, the demons and Buffy so it has a bunch of parts. That's pretty clever. It's just that once you see what he's going to make it's hard to take serious.

 

It's also too long term. With FE it's ubies are nearly ready, Wilkins actually turns into a giant snake, Glory is seconds away from returning home, and so on. He is working on getting his army so he can then work on world domination. The feeling isn't all that urgent.

[Ripper 0]

I take Adam pretty seriously as a threat. He looks really strong in all his appearances.

 

The problem with his plan is that zombie Walsh, zombie Angleman and cyber Forest look extremely dumb. I really like the actual plan, about setting up the soldiers, the demons and Buffy so it has a bunch of parts. That's pretty clever. It's just that once you see what he's going to make it's hard to take serious.

 

It's also too long term. With FE it's ubies are nearly ready, Wilkins actually turns into a giant snake, Glory is seconds away from returning home, and so on. He is working on getting his army so he can then work on world domination. The feeling isn't all that urgent.

World domn...

 

Do you have ANY idea how long that would have taken? So he has some human demons...SO. They weren't that badass. Hell Riley took out Forest. Walsh and the other dock were soft like drug store cotton, they weren't a threat. If Adams plan was to harness the power of the Hell mouth into a big fucking nuke that would take out all of the living creatures that weren't on his level of greatness, I am THERE. But he wanted parts...to put together some frankenstiens...Honestly. The big fucking snake seems like more of a threat.

[Guest Goodear]

Man does Adam get a bad wrap. The plan actually made sense and generally was creating a bunch of soldiers strong enough to manhandle vampires but without any of the weeknesses. Plus since he was using soldiers for the man parts, Adam wouldn't have such a problem focusing the troops like Demons have problems doing. Its not a 'okay the world is going to blow up' apocalypse but an army of Adams and Forrests would have messed the shit up.

 

Adam was also bad ass in his non-stereotypical villain nature. Did Adam kill his own troops? Nope. Did he fly into rages for no reason? Nope. Did Adam somehow screw himself in the pooch in the end? Not really (who would have predictied Buffy becoming the spiritual equivilant of Devastator). Adam was about the zen and the calm and being all 'Huh, I'm a monster, Okay.'

[Ripper 0]

Man does Adam get a bad wrap. The plan actually made sense and generally was creating a bunch of soldiers strong enough to manhandle vampires but without any of the weeknesses. Plus since he was using soldiers for the man parts, Adam wouldn't have such a problem focusing the troops like Demons have problems doing. Its not a 'okay the world is going to blow up' apocalypse but an army of Adams and Forrests would have messed the shit up.

 

Adam was also bad ass in his non-stereotypical villain nature. Did Adam kill his own troops? Nope. Did he fly into rages for no reason? Nope. Did Adam somehow screw himself in the pooch in the end? Not really (who would have predictied Buffy becoming the spiritual equivilant of Devastator). Adam was about the zen and the calm and being all 'Huh, I'm a monster, Okay.'

He screwed his pooch by bringing in Buffy to the mix. I mean, he woudl have had a good body count either way. Why didn't he just go kill the humans and demons in the intitive. He could have if he wanted to.

 

He just had a really really poor plan and executied it all wrong. Although I did like the Trojan Horse aspect of it all with the Demons getting caught on purpose.

 

And on a side...Vampires turned to dust when they died. How exactly were they going to be useful i his little plan? just to kill more humans?

[Guest Goodear]

He screwed his pooch by bringing in Buffy to the mix. I mean, he woudl have had a good body count either way. Why didn't he just go kill the humans and demons in the intitive. He could have if he wanted to.

 

Because she'd probably get killed in the process and he'd have some nifty Slayer parts to work with as well. He wasn't worried that she'd kill him either since he beat the crap out of her everytime they fought.

 

And on a side...Vampires turned to dust when they died. How exactly were they going to be useful i his little plan? just to kill more humans?

 

Adam was a sentimental bastard (as shown by his relationship with Riley and Moms) and personally liked Vampires because of their duality. Not so much that he wouldn't off them if they became trouble, but he liked having them around.