The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[LaParkaMarka 0]

It makes sense if we remember that the FE is very very dumb.

 

Anyways, we doing the gauntlet votes in here? I love AN, but the ending (Cordy fucking Connor) is just so gross that I can't pick it over the wonderfully wonderful NFA.

[Anya 0]

I am watching Never Leave Me now. The combo of Sleeper and NLM must be the most boring set of eps in the history of Buffy. It's like 2 hours of filler. Anya and Xander interogating Andrew is the only good thing.

 

 

Wood at the end of NLM makes no sense. What's up with him burying Jonathan and acting all posessed?

 

 

Marti got fired?

[Anakin Flair 0]

I don't get Sleeper. FE tries to get Spike and the vamps he sired in the basement to kill Buffy....yet at that point it shouldn't have wanted Buffy dead. That goes against it's slayer line plan they introduce just 2 eps later.

The First said that it wasn't time yet, but that it would make things work. I figured that Spike was gaining free will over the First's controll, so The First improvised a new plan. Wether it worked or not didn't make a difference.

 

Back to Angel, the last eps of Angel are great if you don't watch The Girl In Question. That ep suffered from bad placement. (Also would have been better if they had gotten Sarah or Michelle in it.)

[Hank Kingsley 0]

I still don't get all the negativity towards TGIQ. It's a brilliant episode, yeah, it doesn't have 'evil' Angel, but I think Buffy is a higher priority to him than getting into the Circle. And the fact that Buffy wasn't even really in it made it even funnier.

 

And Tom Lenk > Michelle Trachtenberg.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I am watching Never Leave Me now. The combo of Sleeper and NLM must be the most boring set of eps in the history of Buffy. It's like 2 hours of filler. Anya and Xander interogating Andrew is the only good thing.

 

 

Wood at the end of NLM makes no sense. What's up with him burying Jonathan and acting all posessed?

 

 

Marti got fired?

Those were exposition eps. It showed what was happening with Spike, introduced the big bad properly, got Xander and Anya sort-of back together, the subtle fake out with the Bringer and Dawn, What Andrew was doing back, the Seal, the Ubervamps- it set up the rest of the Season.

 

And yeah, when did Marti get fired?

[Anya 0]

Had FE's "improvised plan" worked it would have screwed up it's big picture plan. So that makes no sense and just comes back to FE being the dumbest villain ever.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to just ignore it's placement in TGIQ. When I watch Buffy/Angel I watch them in order, they don't just exist in a vacuum. It badly hurts not only that ep, but the following eps and the ep before it. Horrible writing.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I still don't get all the negativity towards TGIQ. It's a brilliant episode, yeah, it doesn't have 'evil' Angel, but I think Buffy is a higher priority to him than getting into the Circle. And the fact that Buffy wasn't even really in it made it even funnier.

 

And Tom Lenk > Michelle Trachtenberg.

Dawn would have made a bit more sense, and gave it a more 'real' feel, than Andrew. And I never cared for Andrew (untill that last scene, in which he was GOLD~).

 

I'm not saying it was a bad ep, it just suffered from placement. It would have been better if it had been shown in the middle of the season.

 

The only ep I hated this season is Harm's Way.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Had FE's "improvised plan" worked it would have screwed up it's big picture plan. So that makes no sense and just comes back to FE being the dumbest villain ever.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to just ignore it's placement in TGIQ. When I watch Buffy/Angel I watch them in order, they don't just exist in a vacuum. It badly hurts not only that ep, but the following eps and the ep before it. Horrible writing.

The FE's plan was to wipe out the Slayer line and infect the world. how is killing Buffy early screwing that up?

[Anya 0]

It is said multiple times that Buffy must be killed last. It even makes sure to let Buffy live.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Another thing about season 7 is that they kept talking about if Buffy dies the next slayer is chosen, no one seemed to bring up the fact that Buffy already passed the torch and Faith is the one that has to die for the next one to be called.

[Mole 0]

About Marti....

 

To give Joss a break and so he could split his time between Buffy and Angel, each series had a new EP. Marti for Buffy and Tim Minear for Angel.

 

At the end of season 6, there was a lot of backlash about season 6 since it was so different. The fans weren't happy, ratings were down, and I believe UPN wasn't too happy either. Basically, they blamed Marti for it.

 

Soooo even though Marti had the EP title, she didn't have the same power. There were about 5-7 different EPs and Joss was working on Firefly, Angel and Buffy. Joss spent most of his time on Firefly, as we all know so his poetic genius wasn't available for Buffy and Angel.

 

That is why Buffy's storylines were all screwy. They didn't have a concrete storyline teller, ie a main EP who had lots of "power." Angel's storyline was a bit screwy because Charisma's pregency messed up what they were doing. If she wasn't pregnent, well that is a different story.

[Mole 0]

Another thing about season 7 is that they kept talking about if Buffy dies the next slayer is chosen, no one seemed to bring up the fact that Buffy already passed the torch and Faith is the one that has to die for the next one to be called.

Awww Black, sooo cute.

 

It doesn't matter which slayer dies first. Think about it; how did Faith come about? Kendra died, who was a slayer.

 

One thing which bugs me a tad bit is that a new slayer didn't come to be when Buffy died.

[Anya 0]

I know about Marti being EP, but she is still credited as being one in S7 along with Joss. Jane Espenson and some others are like co-EPs or something in 7.

[Ravenbomb 0]

couple season 4 Angel questions:

 

 

The lady that tried to kill Faith in prison, was that part of the First's plan or Jasmine's plan?

 

 

What was the deal with the guy outside the bowling thing? Why could he see her, and why did her touching him make his face rot?

[Mole 0]

As of "Lessons" here are the EPs:

 

1. David Solomon

2. Jane Espenson

3. David Fury

4. Marti Noxon

5. Joss Whedon

 

And as of "Chosen" the EPs:

1. Douglas Petrie

2. David Solomon

3. Jane Espenson

4. David Fury

5. Marti Noxon

6. Joss Whedon

 

Wayyyy too many EPs.

 

 

Since I popped in the DVD for "Lessons" I had to watch the ending with all of the old Big Bads. Joss had the Ubervamps planed out because the Master says something like "We are going back to the beginning." Ubervamps are realllllly old, so they are the beginning. Man, season 7 had so much damn potential, no pun intended.

[Tawren 0]

It doesn't matter which slayer dies first. Think about it; how did Faith come about? Kendra died, who was a slayer.

 

One thing which bugs me a tad bit is that a new slayer didn't come to be when Buffy died.

Buffy dying in Season 1 brings Kendra

Kendra dying in season 2 brings Faith

Faith = current Slayer = not dead

 

Of course, all that is pretty much thrown out the window with that "everyone's a Slayer" shit from Chosen.

 

God I hate Season 7.

[Mole 0]

The lady that tried to kill Faith in prison, was that part of the First's plan or Jasmine's plan?

The First's plan.

 

What was the deal with the guy outside the bowling thing? Why could he see her, and why did her touching him make his face rot?

Umm, let me think.

 

When Jasmine was sitting next to Fred in the bowling alley, a vampire came over and scratched her. He ran away and fell on top of that guy and stuck his fingernails into him, which had Jasmine's blood on it.

 

Since he touched her blood, he could see what her true self was.

 

And her touching him never made his face rot. Angel beat the shit out of him, so maybe that is why his face was all fucked up.

[Anya 0]

Since I popped in the DVD for "Lessons" I had to watch the ending with all of the old Big Bads. Joss had the Ubervamps planed out because the Master says something like "We are going back to the beginning." Ubervamps are realllllly old, so they are the beginning. Man, season 7 had so much damn potential, no pun intended.

I really doubt "we're going back to the beginning" is supposed to be ubies. The original plan for S7 was to go back to the show's roots, monster of the week, light hearted stories about high school. That's why they rebuilt the school and why the early eps focus on Dawn in HS. Look at like every early S7 interview and you'll see Joss hyping it up. FE is probably talking about that. Notice it says "we're all going to learn a lot about ourselves" or whatever? What would ubies have to do with that?

[Max Danger 0]

Yeah, I never understood the First not wanting to kill Buffy as soon as possible. All it had to worry about was keeping Faith from dying, and it would have been just easy pickings killing all the potentials.

 

And, speaking of, why the HELL did they have that inmate try to kill Faith in prison? Her being dead would have screwed up everything because there would have been two Slayers roaming around, rather than just one and the other locked up.

 

Season 7 pretty much went downhill after "Conversations with Dead People".

[Anya 0]

I do think Joss had ubies planned. "From beneath you it devours" and Willow talking about the hellmouth having teeth is logical build to ubies.

 

 

I think Joss always knew the end would be a bunch of SITs being activated. Season 7 brings up Buffy being alone an abnormal amount of times and that was pretty much the only way to blow off the SIT story without having Buffy or Faith die. I think Joss knew from the start the final battle would be ubies vs. slayers and that it would end with SD being destroyed. The problem is they had no clue what to do in the middle and they had a villain that couldn't actually do anything. So that lead to all the filler and disorganization.

 

 

If they could do it over I would bet they would wait to introduce FE. That is the key problem. Once FE came you pretty much had to drop any other arcs because FE is such a huge problem. What time is there to do a story with Xander/Anya or Dawn when this huge war is coming? They should have continued to do one shot monster of the week type stuff a lot longer and just had FE in the background being slowly hyped up. Then have it kick into gear and go with the big final battle stuff much later.

 

 

That's why everyone says CWDP is when it all went down hill. When FE took the offense the whole thing fell apart because they had to hype the war and they had no idea what to do except for how it was all going to end. The whole little series of CWDP, Sleeper, NLM, Bring on the Night and Showtime - when they were doing the first ubie stuff, that is when it all fell apart and became a trainwreck. They got stuck into that hole where everyone just sat around Buffy's house waiting for FE.

[Mole 0]

 

It doesn't matter which slayer dies first. Think about it; how did Faith come about? Kendra died, who was a slayer.

 

One thing which bugs me a tad bit is that a new slayer didn't come to be when Buffy died.

Buffy dying in Season 1 brings Kendra

Kendra dying in season 2 brings Faith

Faith = current Slayer = not dead

 

Of course, all that is pretty much thrown out the window with that "everyone's a Slayer" shit from Chosen.

 

God I hate Season 7.

But Buffy is still a slayer. They never, ever said it had to be the current slayer.

[BlackFlagg 0]

 

It doesn't matter which slayer dies first. Think about it; how did Faith come about? Kendra died, who was a slayer.

 

One thing which bugs me a tad bit is that a new slayer didn't come to be when Buffy died.

Buffy dying in Season 1 brings Kendra

Kendra dying in season 2 brings Faith

Faith = current Slayer = not dead

 

Of course, all that is pretty much thrown out the window with that "everyone's a Slayer" shit from Chosen.

 

God I hate Season 7.

But Buffy is still a slayer. They never, ever said it had to be the current slayer.

Seeing as how all past slayers have tended to...stay dead when killed they probably didn't feel the need to get so specific about it...I always figured that each slayer only passes the torch the one time when they die, which would be why a new one wasn't called when Buffy died in The Gift.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Apocalypse Nowish v. Not Fade Away

 

NOT FADE AWAY!!!

 

... I think a bronze medal game would probably go over better

 

I just like the concept of WHEDONDOME! 2 EPISODES ENTER! 1 EPISODE LEAVES!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

GODDAMMIT BLACKFLAGG!

 

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT! GOD FUCKING DAMN YOU!!

 

First you take the quote that I want for my sig and then YOU TAKE THE PICTURE!!!!!!

 

MORTAL ENEMY!

[BlackFlagg 0]

I am your arch-nemesisisisisis.....I also like season six of Buffy, MWAHAHAHAHAH~!

[Mole 0]

 

It doesn't matter which slayer dies first. Think about it; how did Faith come about? Kendra died, who was a slayer.

 

One thing which bugs me a tad bit is that a new slayer didn't come to be when Buffy died.

Buffy dying in Season 1 brings Kendra

Kendra dying in season 2 brings Faith

Faith = current Slayer = not dead

 

Of course, all that is pretty much thrown out the window with that "everyone's a Slayer" shit from Chosen.

 

God I hate Season 7.

But Buffy is still a slayer. They never, ever said it had to be the current slayer.

Seeing as how all past slayers have tended to...stay dead when killed they probably didn't feel the need to get so specific about it...I always figured that each slayer only passes the torch the one time when they die, which would be why a new one wasn't called when Buffy died in The Gift.

Eh, you're probably right.

 

I always thought a new one wasn't called because she died of "mystical energy."

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

THE (FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING FUCKING...yada...) PLAYERS LIST!

 

Yes, as hyped for weeks and weeks and months and weeks, THE PLAYERS LIST finally makes its way to TOAOAS5T~! Who will be the #1 Player!? Who will make the cut? Who will be KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X??! Read on...

 

#1 - Wesley

 

Season 4 marked the stunning debut of BADASS WES - a character which rose above the rest in impressive fashion, melding together doublegun action, extendo-weapon fun, and fucking-Lilah-dressed-as-Fred-telling-her-to-leave-the-glasses-on goodness, in one singular persona. Indeed, this was a character change well-welcomed by the masses as Wesleys growth throughout the seasons, from Nerdish Watcher to mock-Rogue Demon Hunter to Bitter Soul, was finally complete. However, Season 5 added a depth to his character -a deep pain- that was able to not only impress the audience, but touch their hearts as well.

 

As Season 5 began, it appeared Wesley was reverting back into the nerdish bookworm that once was. However -as foreshadowed in "Lineage"- his character was only being set-up for impending doom (and gloom. Lots and lots of gloom). In "Smile Time", a love which began in Season 3 and faltered throughout, was finally realized as Fred gave Wesley the kiss he long waited for. It was not to last, however, as in the very next show, Fred died in his arms wondering why she couldn't stay. This emotionally-charged episode featured many sides of Wes; the joker ("Would the Astronauts have weapons"?), the lover ("Are you trying to turn me on?"), the dedicated ("I have loved you since the moment I met you"), the broken...

 

Since Freds death -which was, invariably, his own- Wesley was changed, and it was for the better. It was in this state which he delivered his best performances and played many layers. Alexis Denisov proved that he is not only a "damn good actor", he proved that he was on a level few are on. Because of this, he is the #1 Player.

 

Illyria: Would you like me to lie to you now?

 

Wesley: Yes. Thank you, yes. *Illyria changes to Fred* Hello there.

 

Fred: Wesley. My Wesley.

 

Wesley: Fred. I miss you.

 

They kiss

 

Fred: It's gonna be okay. It won't hurt much longer. And then you'll be where I am. We'll be together.

 

Wesley: I--I love you.

 

Both are crying

 

Fred: I love you. My love. Oh, my love...

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Ah, badass Wes. Remember when Faith was beating up that junkie chick for info on Angelus, then she begged for mercy, and Faith the crazy slayer murderer let her go? And then WES~ stabs the junkie in the shoulder and extracts the needed info? Faith was all "OMGWTFBBQ", and Wes says "I made sure not to hit any major arteries".

[Mole 0]

Something that really really annoyed me was how the Wes/Fred relationship worked out.

 

They should have had then together WAYY before "Smile Time."

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

#2 - Harmony

 

I don't like being wrong. I don't know anyone who _does_ like being wrong, but I REALLY don't like being wrong. In grade 6, my teacher said "decative" wasn't a word and I went around the school trying to find a teacher who would substantiate my claim. Before this season began, after reading the spoilers and finding out that Harmony was added to the cast, I said I didn't think it was a good idea.

 

I was wrong.

 

And I am so fucking happy I was.

 

The second-longest active character on Angel, Harmony was introduced to us as a member of Cordys chick clique back in Season 1 Buffy. At the end of Season 3 she was biten by a vampire and in Season 5 she returned tagging along side Spike. It was a fantastic relationship, mainly because Spike was peaking in terms of character that season, but it wasn't meant to be. Harmony went over to Angel and tried to kill them and was never seen again. Well, until the start of Season 5 when she showed up and it was magic....

 

Angel: *You're* my secretary!?

Harmony: Er Hellooo! Assistant!

Angel: Explain why I shouldn't kill you?

Harmony: Secretary is fine.

 

Harmony added not only a killer figure which was well complemented in office attire, but a sense of light-heartedness that the show needed after the very dark Season 4. I think the end of "Conviction" said it all, as the self-sacrificing vampire Spike made his return...

 

Wesley: Spike?

Angel: Spike!?

Harmony: Blondie Bear?

 

But I believe the moment that enamoured me most with the perky vampire was in "Life of the Party" when she danced alone in the middle of the room. I have no idea why I like that scene in particular, perhaps something about living in your own world and not giving a damn about anyone else -a sort of individuality and carefree-edness that just really clicks- but I love it and it really brought her above her role.

 

She was so good, infact, that she was featured in her own episode "Harms way" which provided us a closer look at the everyday life of a secret-er-assitant. Not a "great" episode by any means, it still provided a bunch of laughs and promoted a truly interesting character and dynamic that separates Angel from its more-popular and long-lasting counterpart.

 

In the end, however, it turned out that the snake was always that and it turned on the crew. I can't really complain, cause, well, she looked DAMN FINE in that blue bra... and the end scene where she asked for a recommendation and Angel had it for her was just perfect. Harmony is the #2 PLAYER in Angel Season 5.