The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

I was surprised at how good Cautionary was because I could hardly remember it. It had Spike busting out the "if wishes were horses" line, Angel referencing the Shanshu (and Spike hearing it for the first time), the prophesy talk (with the father killing the son), and luchadores.

 

As for the Angellus stuff and Boreanaz evolution as an actor, the moment's where he's been able to play really badass and still not be evil are what's helped him out immesely. Season 2 on his own and the Wesley/hopital/choke incident.. And Season Four gave him a chance to flesh out all of that.

[Guest Brian]

Connor's using the wrist-stake spring loaded shooter like Daddy.

 

Big thing with them putting away the soul. Because it's going to be gone.

 

I love how they put things forth with Angel. How they talk about how he's going to slaughter them because their his only link to humanity. How Wes says he's still not ready despite preparing his whole life. And then you have Angellus singing "Teddy Bear Picnic".

 

I love Angellus picking people apart. Hannibal-esque. Bringing up Faith. Wes and his father.

 

I love how they play the Angellus takes Fred scene. The calm before the storm. And the way Angellus talks. "Might get some now."

 

Wes looking on as Fred and Gunn hug.

 

Wes gets his mack on.

 

Connor sneaking downstairs while Wes and Gunn go at it.

 

"Doing your mom and trying to kill your dad. There should be a play."

 

And here's Connor calling Angellus his real father.

 

Angellus brings up the bad actor thing from the last time he was awakened, with Cordy.

 

Angellus declines the Beast. I love that little bit.

 

Angel asking for souveneirs from the massacre. Stray baby toe.

 

And Wo-pang is gone.

[Guest Brian]

Always beating up the Dark Mystic's guards. I love that.

 

I love Angellus saying he wants to be Angel again. And he can hear everything from downstairs. talking about hunky Wes. And Lilah returns. Lilah telling him he's the only one that can destroy the Beast.

 

I feel really sorry for Gunn in this moment. He doesn't fit in the group once again, or so he thinks.

 

Examining the Wes/Lilah relationship.

 

And Wes discovers Reinhard's companion.

 

And Angellus calling the Beast a minion. I love Angellus.

 

And Angellus is exploiting that part of Gunn's character that feels isolated. And admitting that he knows about Seedel.

 

I love the Lilah dynamic in the love triangle.

 

And Angel brings up Wes and Lilah in front of Fred.

 

That's anifty little demon. And Gunn showing off the perseverance in a way, by keeping up the whacking. Very important as the rest of this season really defines the rest of Gunn's character, the perseverance and hope. In addition to the nobility and his smarts that are conceiled.

 

Doesn't Lilah's thing about being on the winning team come up later when they're touring Wolfram and Hart.

 

"Heroes, so tangled up in your own crap that you couldn't find the world to save it." Says alot about family doesn't it, and being part of something bigger.

 

Shouldn't they have known it wasn't Angel when he wasn't singing Manilow?

 

Connor's disappointed that it's not Angellus. On some front, I'm sure he wanted revenge for Holtz, and a justified reason to take out Angel.

 

God, I love Angellus when he tricks Cordy. Well, I love Angellus period.

 

"I have to go save the world." God, I love that.

 

"Is there no fast food left in Los Angeles!?!"

 

Angellus playing around with Lilah and Cordy is good stuff.

 

Stabbed in the neck. Just like Holtz.

[Guest Brian]

I caught Slouching toward Bethlehem on reruns last night. There was other stuff I missed the first time. There's Cordy asking Angel if they were a happy family, looking at the picture of her and him with baby Connor. Angel tells her not like that, which is sort of an idyllic look back at how things were when Wes was still there. Family.

 

Also, there's a free will thing at the end as Lilah tells Wes he chose to do with what he overheard.

 

Finally, Salvage is what I'm doing tonight if anyone's interested. Rudo, I was hoping you were going to join me for the Faith arc.

[Crowe 0]

I'll join you for the Faith arc. Sure, I'm skipping two seasons ahead of my current viewing... but eh, thread needs life. I will watch it tonight.

[Ravenbomb 0]

ah, Faith. Possibly my favorite of all the Buffy-verse characters

[Guest Brian]

Three episodes during the course of the week. Salvage is coming tonight from me.

[Guest Brian]

"Salvage"

 

“A little too tart for me, anyway. You know what I mean, Wes?”

 

God I love that line.

 

Bringing back the sanctuary spell.

 

Wes wants to take off her head to get past it all. He wants to forget the whole relationship. I just love how he grabs the axe off the wall.

 

I love how Angelus just stakes the vamp. I love how that defines his character.

 

And Wes can’t do it, because he feels guilty. He’s trying to cope with he did while giving himself the strength to take her head off. And how he says that she couldn’t love him.

 

Lilah brings up the signed dollar bill from “Slouching”.

 

I like how they re-introduce Faith.

 

I love how this story of Wes being unable to redeem Lilah links him right back up with Faith. And I love the parallels between Wes and Angel whenever they come up. Oh yeah, and when Lilah says that sorry is not in their vocabulary, straight outta “Awakening”. I love that last little reference.

 

God, I love Angelus taking on the beast verbally.

 

Wes is greatness. The way he reveals their going to haul in Angelus. Him and Faith and that whole conversation, and especially the way she sells Angelus. And Wes says “Five-by-five.” This episode is so fucking underrated.

 

FAITH

(looks out the window) I'm not gonna kill him, Wesley. Angelus. (shakes her head) I don't care what you thought you sprung me for. Angel's the only one in my life who's never given up on me. There's no way I'm giving up on—

WESLEY

I know. That's why it had to be you. Just wondering if you're up to it. (stops the car)

 

God, Faith is awesome. And did I mention hot? I love how the treat the whole “feeling things out again” deal with the vampires.

 

Angelus is awesome. The way he catches that girl likes he a good guy ad then vamps out. And how he calls Sunnydale.

 

The murderer line is great.

 

I love that moment where Faith looks in peril and then the glass breaks and the sun shines through, keeping Angelus in the shadows.

 

When Cordelia says that she and Connor are connected, is this a reference to Jasmine and the those two for later on? The deal with the blood.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Just got my delivery notice from DeepDiscountDVD for season 5

[BlackFlagg 0]

and it has arrived~!

[Anakin Flair 0]

A couple of months ago, I had to sell all of my Angel DVD sets to get my PS2 back. Last night, I got my original Seasons 3 and 4 back. And I plan to get Season 5 by next thursday. I am a happy camper

[BlackFlagg 0]

about halfway through the season, can't believe I missed the Jaws referance in Soul Purpose, heh.

 

And how damn adorable is Harmony when she's dancing alone in Life of the Party?

[BlackFlagg 0]

Angel comic

 

Anyone see this yet? Gonna be a new Angel comic series that picks up after season 5.

 

Silver Bullet Comics reports (via Moviehole) that a new Angel comic series is on the way and looks to resolve some of the cliffhangers from the TV series finale. When we all left the gang - Angel, Spike, Gunn, and Illyria - they were about to go head to head with the biggest baddest addition to the buffyverse. Then, just as they're about to attack, the screen goes black.

 

The mini-series will be published by IDW (30 Days of Nights), who recently snagged the rights to Angel from Dark Horse. Joss Whedon will be onboard as a creative advisor.

 

Reportedly, none of the characters from Buffy can turn up in this new comic series, because Dark Horse still own all the rights to that series. The first Angel comic should hit newstands in Summer 2005. They report that a Faith mini-series is rumored to follow soon after. Although, it will be interesting to see how the two companies handle characters that have crossed over onto both series.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

about halfway through the season, can't believe I missed the Jaws referance in Soul Purpose, heh.

 

And how damn adorable is Harmony when she's dancing alone in Life of the Party?

DUDE! If I wasn't so goddamn lazy, I'd go back to my original post after Life of the Party that said the same thing! That was hot.

[Guest Brian]

"Release"

 

Man, this opening salvo is really intense. The blood hitting the floor. Running down the drain. There's just this quiet building of tension, before the big outburst. Or release. And Faith pieces in the shower."

 

And Angelus and the big voice. Got I hate Cordy as the villain.

 

So Lorne can pick up something with Connor but he's not getting the whole picture.

 

I love it when Angelus shows back up at the hotel.

 

Connor gets hit by the sanctuary spell.

 

And Faith can't make the commitment to stopping Angelus.

 

Wow. Wes called Gunn someone he could trust. And he busts out the shotgun. And Gunn reminds Fred how much she means to him. That was a packed scene.

 

I like how Angelus says that the Beast's master is a lot like the view Angel has of the powers. Guys who sit on their asses and let others do their work.

 

Fred asks Gunn if they could just go back. Before any of this. Can you say "Home"?

 

Wes didn't even look. Wes didn't even look. That so fucking ruled.

 

Faith you suck at the torture. Goddamn Wes is the man. Rewind. Rewind. The knife goddamn it. Twist it. Make the bitch pay. Get her talking. Faith you suck. Prison has made you soft. Shut Up! Goddamn I'm going to watch this scene like seventeen times. Make her cry. Cry bitch, cry.

 

Oh yeah, and I love Faith's reaction. And Wes' re-reaction. It's getting posted:

 

FAITH

(to Wes) Have you totally lost it?

 

WESLEY

I avoided the main arteries. She'll live, if that's what you call this. Whatever's controlling the Beast—it's made contact with Angelus. (walks out)

 

FAITH

So, what? Torturing humans part of the new makeover?

 

WESLEY

I did what I had to do because you couldn't.

 

FAITH

I hit her.

 

WESLEY

You think that's something new to her?

 

FAITH

You crossed it back there, Wes. What you did back there—

 

WESLEY

(stops walking, turns to face Faith) Oh, you have a problem with torture now? I seem to recall a time when you rather enjoyed it.

 

FAITH

Yeah, well, it's not me anymore. You know that.

 

WESLEY

(leans the shotgun forward) Nice to have this along, just in case. (holds the gun across his body with two hands) I remember what you did to me, Faith. The broken glass, the shallow cuts so I would remain conscious.

 

FAITH

You think I'd hurt you again?

 

WESLEY

This the part where you tell me you've turned a new leaf, found God, inner peace? We both know that isn't true. You haven't changed. You can't.

 

FAITH

Wes... (throws up her hands, turns to walk away)

 

WESLEY

Because you're sick. (Faith stops walking) You've always been sick. (Faith turns toward Wes) It goes right down to the roots rotting your soul. That's why your friends turned on you in Sunnydale, why the Watchers' Council tried to kill you. No one trusts you, Faith. You're a rabid dog who should've been put down years ago! (Faith pushes Wesley violently against the chain link fence, taking the gun from him and raising it back to hit him with it, but stops short) See, that wasn't so hard, was it? (Faith glares) It's what you'll need to beat him.

 

FAITH

(puts the gun down, steps back) No.

 

WESLEY

You have to be willing to take it all the way, Faith.

 

FAITH

I can't risk killing Angel. Not after what he's done for me. There's got to be another way. (walks away)

 

Season 4 and Season 5 had a lot of good fight scenes.

 

Angelus telling Faith she's gone soft. And she doesn't finish him when she has the chance.

[Guest Brian]

Ok people. Time to step in and discuss the Faith arc. This is Orpheus. One of my personal favorites, though I don't feel it stacks up against some of the creme de la creme, I still absolutely love it.

 

It’s almost like a funeral procession with Faith coming in.

 

I love Lorne talking with Wes.

 

Lorne: The more you take, the more you sink.”

 

Wes: “It leads you straight down to hell.”

 

And I love Angelus reliving Angel’s life. The first talk with Faith is great.

 

“Dude, you just rescued a puppy.”

 

Who doesn’t love these Willow interactions? Especially the Marlboro man rumbling with Wes.

 

What is Cordy thinking? Even if she kills Willow, what the heck is she gonna do with her? I guess without Angel, nobody could stop her, but even Connor would know what was going on.

 

Manilow~! And I love the scene where Angel drinks from the restaurant worker. Because you really have to realize that the temptation is always there, every time he’s with a human. And I love Angelus revealing that he’s always there, deep down. Because it’s something that they’ve been working with for so long. Oh, and I love Angelus’ reaction to Angel drinking. “I’m deep in Faith. Soul or no soul.”

 

WESLEY

(leans forward) Sorry. I think my sense of humor's trapped in a jar somewhere.

WILLOW

Does seem like you've given in to the grumpy side of the force.

WESLEY

A lot's happened. Not just Angelus. I've been—I've changed. I've seen a darkness in myself. I'm not sure you'd even begin to understand—

WILLOW

I flayed a guy alive and tried to destroy the world.

WESLEY

Oh. So... (stands, doesn't make eye-contact)

WILLOW

Darkness. Been there.

WESLEY

Yeah. Well, I never flayed... (seems sickened) I had a woman chained in a closet.

WILLOW

Hey.

WESLEY

That doesn't compare.

WILLOW

No, dark. That's dark. You've been to a place.

 

This is it. They’ve been building up to this for the last few years. Season Two was all about that line. It was about the monster inside and whether Angel could control it. Holtz was about stepping over that line. And finally they face off. It needed to happen, Angelus and Angel. And I mark out when I see Angel step up, and then Angelus hit a knee. This is another great fight scene.

 

And some of the lines in the scene are great. Angel telling Faith that their time is never up. We pay for everything. It huts. It runs so deep. He realizes, finally, that he can’t be redeemed for what he does. And here is a major shift in the show, as it now becomes a lot about what does Angel fight for. The answer for this season is family, but it’s going to be re-explored in Season 5.

 

ANGEL

(lunges at Angelus) I'm not perfect, Faith. Even with a soul, I've done things I wished a thousand times I could take back.

ANGELUS

Yeah, like those Manilow concerts. (throws Angel across the alley) Son of a bitch!

 

And:

 

ANGELUS

What won't I miss? The moralizing. Soul's already in the ether, boyo. I can smell it. How 'bout I send it off to that big puppy rescue in the sky.

FAITH

(from behind) Arf arf, psycho.

ANGELUS

Faith. Getting back into the game.

FAITH

I guess I am.

ANGELUS

(swings the pipe at Faith, but she disappears) Hey!

 

And Connor and Faith was a nice little fight too. “Break me off a switch son. There’s gonna be a whoopin’.” And then Angel grabbing Connor at the end was a nice touch.

 

You can see a little of that comradery coming back to Wes and Gunn. I like it.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Once again, Faith is possibly my favorite Buffy-verse character. I would say that I wish her arc in Angel season 4 were longer, but they did a damn good job with it as is.

[Mole 0]

Season 5 is out already?

[Ravenbomb 0]

this tuesday

[Guest Brian]

I can't possibly complain about Faith's arc. One amazing, fucking spectacular episode in "Salvage", another great episode in "Orpheus", and a very tense effort in "Release". I think that's a stellar run, and it runs through the full gauntlet of the last three seasons so well. Touches on everyone, really pushes through the characters.

[Ravenbomb 0]

When I get a good chunk of time off I'm gonna watch all the big Faith episodes, now that I've got all the Buffy seasons and all the Angel seasons that had Faith in them

[Guest Brian]

As side note before I put forth "Players", Orpheus is really a turning point in the show. For the last two and a half year, there's been a focus of the "darkness" within Angel, and with that episode, it shifts more towards Cordy, Jasmine, and Connor.

[Guest Brian]

I like “Players”. It’s a good Gunn episode, a great way to spice up his character. “That ol’ Gang…” absolutely failed because it was pretty poor, but this has a pretty good story, something underlying, and really gives Gunn some layers.

 

Cordy looks gross.

 

Gwen’s back~!

 

I feel sorry for Lorne, because his sense never really recovers. And in a way, at least for him, it costs Fred.

 

Angel’s revealing that Angelus didn’t kill Lilah.

 

Nice to see everyone else but Gunn recognizes his strengths. That’s something important to his sense of belonging in this group, which plays to the show’s theme.

 

It’s kinda nice the way it seems like Connor’s always being indoctrinated and manipulated by everyone else, including Holtz, Cordy, and Jasmine. But in the end, he was the one playing the latter.

 

And here’s Gunn getting manipulated by Gwen. Has anyone else realized how great of a job they do at mirroring people’s themes this season with another character’s relationships, or is it just me? I mean, they really do a great job working at different shades of the characters and their stories.

 

Gunn, slick enough to steal the jade tiger, smart enough to know when to use it. Important to emphasize that he has brains of his own, which was something he faulted Wes for when they were fighting over Fred.

 

Wes, still feeling the remorse over the Lilah.

 

And Gunn’s all noble to, in his objective. That’s important too.

 

I like Angel spouting off about what an idiot the Beast’s master is in front of Cordy.

 

“I can’t help but think something great is coming.” A reference to Jasmine by Morimoto.

 

I like Gunn’s fight. A nice change of pace with the humans and the weapons, and one hero against a bunch of guys. And I like that tie thing at the end. Stylin’ and profilin’, wooooo!

 

And Lorne’s preparing the old smoke and mirrors.

 

And Gunn gets some. Gwen’s giving it up to Gunn.

 

And Cordy’s discovered. I love the whole magic eight ball and Wes with the shotgun and Fred just points that dart gun.

[Guest Brian]

I'm going to try to do something where I count up the season recurring/main characters showed up. For instance, Angel has 11 seasons in the Buffyverse; Cordelia, Buffy, and Willow each have eight. Might be interesting, I'm going to try it out.

[Guest Brian]

This is a test. Add in if you'd like, I'm not going to be back on until the end of the day.

 

Angel – 11 (Buffy 1-5, 7; Angel 1-5)

Buffy – 8 (Buffy 1-7; Angel 1)

Cordelia – 8 (Buffy 1-3; Angel 1-5)

Willow – 8 (Buffy 1-7; Angel 4)

Spike – 8 (Buffy 2-7; Angel 1, 5)

Xander – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Giles – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Darla – 7 (Buffy 1-2; Angel 1-5)

Joyce – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Wesley – 6 (Buffy 3; Angel 1-5)

Gunn – 5 (Angel 1-5)

Druscilla – 5 (Buffy 2, 5, 7; Angel 2, 5)

Fred – 4 (Angel (2-5)

Lorne – 4 (Angel 2-5)

Anne – 4 (Buffy 2-3; Angel 2, 5)

Tara – 4 (Buffy 4-7)

Master – 4 (Buffy 1, 3, 7; Angel 2)

Lilah – 4 (Angel 1-4)

Lindsay (Angel 1-2, 5)

[Guest reek]

Willow is 9, with one scene in Angel Season 2.

 

Faith is 6 (Buffy 3, 4, 7; Angel 1, 2, 4)

[Ravenbomb 0]

Willow is 9, with one scene in Angel Season 2.

Two scenes. The scene in Disharmony and the very end of No Place Like Pltz Glrb

[Guest Brian]

Revised list. I figure the bar minimum is three seasons in the Buffyverse. I'm using IMDB which is making this really easy.

 

Angel – 11 (Buffy 1-5, 7; Angel 1-5)

Willow – 9 (Buffy 1-7; Angel 2, 4)

Spike – 8 (Buffy 2-7; Angel 1, 2, 5)

Buffy – 8 (Buffy 1-7; Angel 1)

Cordelia – 8 (Buffy 1-3; Angel 1-5)

Darla – 8 (Buffy 1-2, 5; Angel 1-5)

Xander – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Giles – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Joyce – 7 (Buffy 1-7)

Harmony - 7 (Buffy 1-5; Angel 2, 5)

Faith - 6 (Buffy 3-4, 7; Angel 1, 2, 4)

Wesley – 6 (Buffy 3; Angel 1-5)

Amy - 6 (Buffy 1-4, 6-7)

Gunn – 5 (Angel 1-5)

Jonathan (Buffy 2-4, 6-7)

Druscilla – 5 (Buffy 2, 5, 7; Angel 2, 5)

Fred – 4 (Angel (2-5)

Lorne – 4 (Angel 2-5)

Anne – 4 (Buffy 2-3; Angel 2, 5)

Tara – 4 (Buffy 4-7)

Master – 4 (Buffy 1, 3, 7; Angel 2)

Lilah – 4 (Angel 1-4)

Master - 4 (Buffy 1, 3, 7; Angel 2)

D’Hoffryn – 4 (Buffy 3-4, 6-7)

First Slayer – 4 (Buffy 4-5, 7)

Lindsay - 3 (Angel 1-2, 5)

Connor - 3 (Angel 3-5)

Riley - 3 (Buffy 4-6)

Andrew - 3 (Buffy 6-7; Angel 5)

Principal Snyder -3 (Buffy 1-3)

Dawn - 3 (Buffy 5-7)

Jenny - 3 (Buffy 1-3)

Ethan Rayne - 3 (Buffy 2-4)

Willy the Snitch 3 (Buffy 2-4)

Gavin – 3 (Angel 2-4)

Quentin Traver - 3 (Buffy 3, 5, 7)

Warren – 3 (5-7)

[Ravenbomb 0]

Ethan Rayne - 3 (Buffy 2-4)

Whoa. Freaked out for a second, but I had the wrong Ethan. Was thinking Ethan Rom

[Anakin Flair 0]

I actually just watched the Faith arc the night I got my Season 4 back, and I remembered why I loved it so much. But it got me to thinking- they did a lot with the fight scenes on Angel- things like super-jumps and throws and such, things that showed off the Vampires (and Slayer's) true power. But they almost never did these things on Buffy (With one exception- Spike tossing Wood in 'Lies My Parents Told Me.' I wonder why...