The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

It's not half as corny as Buffy fighting Dracula.

 

She-Mantis > Dracula

You're crazy.

 

I still want to know what was up with the amulet. That's a pretty major plot point they've dropped. Who was it meant for? Why did they want to stop the FE? It makes no sense. I hate how after 7 years Buffy's final battle was used to hype a storyline on another show which ended up leading to nothing in the end anyway.

 

Lilah gave Angel the amulet so it would help Buffy defeat the First. W&H didn't want the First to win becasue that would ruin THEIR Apacolypse. They gave Angel the amulet and didn't tell him to use it or what it does, just that it would help Buffy out in Sunnydale.

 

ANGEL

(opens the file, reads) Sunnydale. (takes out an amulet from the file)

 

LILAH

That nifty, little bauble comes with the file. Apparently, it's crucial for some kind of final battle. Guess they're in short supply up Sunnydale way. A bit gauche for my taste, but, hey, not a slayer.

So Angel looked through some books and found out what it does.

 

Angel takes an amulet out of his pocket and holds it up for Buffy to see. It's a 2-inch diameter round crystal pendant in a silver starburst setting hung from a coarse silver chain.

 

BUFFY

(shakes her head) I can already tell you, I have nothing that goes with that.

 

ANGEL

It's not for you.

 

BUFFY

Splainy?

 

ANGEL

I don't know everything. It's very powerful and probably very dangerous. It has a purifying power, a cleansing power, possibly scrubbing bubbles. The translation is, uh—anyway, it bestows strength to the right person who wears it.

 

BUFFY

And the right person is?

 

ANGEL

Someone ensouled, but stronger than human. A champion. As in me.

 

BUFFY

Or me.

 

ANGEL

No. I don't know nearly enough about this to risk you wearing it. Besides, you got that real cool axe-thing going for you.

Angel never said he would wear it, he just said it is for someone like him, a champion with a soul, ie Spike.

 

Lindsay got the amulet from Sunnydale so Spike could come back to annoy Angel maybe as a distraction. Angel then would be pre-occupied with Spike that way Lindsay could get his revenge and kill Angel. Lindsay had nothing to do with the Senior Partners; he was on his own mission/task.

 

What did Anya do to deserve that?

From Joss himself about the Anya death, from the "Chosen" commentary.

 

(Anya dies) one of the most brutal images we’ve ever done and you know done to keep the sense of battle , you know the un heroic death also interesting because I’d never seen it before I’d never seen anybody cut like that and I came up with the idea of the stuntman using a half sword and digitally adding the rest of the sword and the cut so just instead of one of those slices like you always get in swordfight movies we really cut someone down And of course Sarah following as well that was because I needed a toll I needed this battle really to feel like a battle and I couldn’t kill any of my core four and still call it a happy ending I couldn’t kill Dawn and still call it a happy ending either so Anya got the nod and to make it as un heroic as possible just felt very real and very creepy and that shot was in fact her last shot ( get out of my face) a lot of people didn’t actually get that this was a pun but it seemed like the right thing and here you’ve really got to give it up for the composer he increased the budget of the show by a half just because his music gave it such an epic feel this music to me embodies so much of what I was striving for , it makes the thing feel twice as epic it was a beautiful piece of music. that’s May a great great stuntwoman who gave us beautiful footage as Felicia did too all the girls really enjoyed their fighting, they wanted to fight more and more , Iyari particularly . Sarah at one point said look we’re going to need more footage, just keep rolling and I’ll fight.

 

(Later on he says)Again I had very much planned not to have any reason for Anya’s death any reason behind it or any reason to come after it , but the writer in me couldn’t not resolve it somewhat I think the audience needed what Xander needed which was something and that something was Andrew learning that the think that he’s sort of reviled for, making up stories becomes the thing that he helps Xander with becomes the thing that he actually is good at, giving her the epic death that she didn’t actually get to have

So yeah.

 

Besides that little minor detail of killing countless men over the course of thousands of years. Other than that she was a good person. Kinda rude. But still good. A champion even.

Woah, Anya a champion? Now I love Anya and she is one of my favorite characters, but a champion? Where the hell does this come from? She is no where NEAR a champion. Cordy is a lot closer to being a champion than Anya and she isn't even really a champion in my eyes.

 

And where is FE in all this? It should be furious. You'd think FE and the partners would be linked, or even the same thing, and wouldn't want to get in each other's way like that.

I believe that the First and the SP have beef with each other. The SP didn't want anyone else to have an Apacolypse before they have theirs.

[Anya 0]

The fact that you and Brian contradict each other on this shows how poorly written this was.

 

 

Angel clearly thought it was for him and at the very least was considering using it. So W&H had to have known he might possibly die to stop FE. Why would they have done that if him running W&H and turning evil was their evil scheme? Why give it to Angel and take that risk? What a stupid move by the Partners. They just got lucky it turned out ok.

 

Lindsey went through a lot of trouble and risk just to distract Angel. It's also quite a coincidence everything fell in place so that he could do it.

 

 

So who is right? Did W&H just know Spike would use it? Did they just not care if Angel died? Did lindsey just happen to come across it and use it? You're both saying different things. What does that say about the story? There's no explinations, you just have to speculate. And that sucks.

 

 

 

I've seen Joss explain why he killed her many times. It sucks and I am mad at him for it. His explination is bogus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dedicate this post to the memory of Anya Christina Emmanuella Jenkins, a true champion.

 

 

 

The scoobies may not have cared that she died, but I will contiue to mourn.

 

 

 

We're taking a moment......

 

 

..................

 

 

 

And we're done.

[Mole 0]

Yeah yeah, we really don't know if Angel or Spike were supposed to have the amulet.

 

Anya, champion? Give me 5 reasons why.

[Anya 0]

1. She died fighting to save the world. That gets you major points.

 

2. Just like Angel and Spike her story is one of redemption. She used to be really evil, but eventually became only really obnoxious and greedy.

 

3. Her role as a small business owner/entrepreneur is an inspiration for all demonkind. She shows that demons and humans can coexist thanks to the wonders of capitalism.

 

4. Her wit, sarcasm and inappropriate enthusiasm boosted morale for the scoobies whenever they were in dire trouble.

 

5. There are tons of instances of her helping to save the world. Like she came up with the ideas of how to beat Glory by getting them to think outside the box. They were thinking inside the damn box until she spoke up!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I gotta say...

 

 

.... Anya in the Bunny suit got me hot. Fo Real. BOING~!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If we were to work from the notion that Lindsay was behind bringing back Spike, can we work from the assumption that Lindsay was behind giving the amulet to Angel? Lindsay wanted Angel out of the picture, knew that the First Evil was causin trouble, saw an opportunity. Angel unexpectedly gave it up to Spike, plan screwed. However, a new opportunity was there so Lindsay found the amulet (and since he was the one who first had it - under this theory - he should be able to find it whereever) and brought back Spike to annoy and distract Angel. He set them both up to fight over the cup hoping that Spike would kill Angel. That plan failed, but it was never his big plan - just a bonus. Since he and Eve were in cohoots and if Eve was working for the Senior Partners before Angel was in charge (aka 5.1), it is feasible that Lindsay got the amulet and got it into WR&H.

 

This does dumb down the effect of Spike saving the world through the use of the amulet, however, Buffys finale wasn't about Spike; it was about Buffy, and her no longer having the pressure of saving the world every day.

[Anya 0]

Whatever the case they need to SAY IT. It's ridiculous that such an important thing is so confusing everyone has their own take on it.

 

 

It bugs me that Buffy's role in beating the FE was like irrelevant. Spike did all the work, or more accurately the amulet did. The sythe, the SITs, Buffy and Faith ended up amounting to nothing at all. They could have just as easily sent Spike down alone.

 

 

Obviously Anya is in heaven, but I wonder what it's like for her. Buffy's descripion, where she had this feeling everyone she cared about was ok, sounds pretty lame for An. I bet whatever it's like she has lots of money.

 

 

My new avatar is the best ever.

[Golgo 13 0]

Are we really sure about that?

 

Yes, Anya died trying to save the world. However in the 1000 or so years previous to that much of her life was spent killing numerous people.

 

Spike went along basically the same path, albeit in a much shorter frame of time, and we're led to believe he was destined for hell.

[Guest JMA]

It's not half as corny as Buffy fighting Dracula.

 

She-Mantis > Dracula

You're crazy.

Nope.

[Guest Brian]

Buffy's role was huge. She's the one that trusted Spike when everyone was willing to off him. She the one that had faith in Spike when he was going crazy.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The avatar is good...

 

... but I think we need to see a full body shot of Bunnyanka.

 

And by that I mean...

 

... Me.

 

BOING~!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

This is the best I could find.

 

How's that?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I need to see the feet and tail. It's really the whole thing and how she wears it that makes it hot...

 

...

[Ripper 0]

The Amulet. It didn't matter who used it. The SP always knew that the ensouled vampire would play a big part in their apocolypse. They invested time and energy into angel because, hey, he is the soul vamp. Then up come ANOTHER vamp with a soul. I would guess they only wanted one left. No matter which one, they wanted to get rid of one. Send the amulet to sunnydale with Angel to stop the First's Apocolypse(which was interfering with their plan) AND get rid of one of those damn souled vamps so they could focus their attention on one. If anything they probably wanted Angel to use it since Spike was more recently evil. Lindsey got the amulet and found a way to bring spike back to distract angel.

 

There you go.

[Mole 0]

1. She died fighting to save the world. That gets you major points.

 

2. Just like Angel and Spike her story is one of redemption. She used to be really evil, but eventually became only really obnoxious and greedy.

 

3. Her role as a small business owner/entrepreneur is an inspiration for all demonkind. She shows that demons and humans can coexist thanks to the wonders of capitalism.

 

4. Her wit, sarcasm and inappropriate enthusiasm boosted morale for the scoobies whenever they were in dire trouble.

 

5. There are tons of instances of her helping to save the world. Like she came up with the ideas of how to beat Glory by getting them to think outside the box. They were thinking inside the damn box until she spoke up!

That would be like saying Andrew is a champion then.

[Anya 0]

I want the bunny Anya action figure.

 

 

Andrew is also a champion. His is yet another epic tale of redemption.

 

 

 

And yes, we ARE really sure she is in heaven. I just know. Screw Spike. She is there, with lots of money, an alternate heaven dimension Xander who isn't a fat one eyed construction worker, and NO bunnies.

[dubq 0]

Obviously Anya is in heaven

Give me a break..

[Guest JMA]

We really need to get a dead-pool started. Who does everyone think will be offed?

 

I'm saying Lorne. Of course, they could always punk out and kill Harmony since she's evil.

[Mole 0]

Once again, I love Anya and she is one of my favorite characters. However, she is NOT a champion. This is the defintion(s) for champion.

 

cham·pi·on (chmp-n) n.

 

 

1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition. - Not Anya

 

2. One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a champion at teaching. - Not Anya, unless you count her teaching of magics that she knew, but she wasn't a champion when it came to teaching.

 

3. An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a champion of the homeless. - Well, she supported people who were demons but she wasn't ardent about it.

 

4. One who fights; a warrior. - She did fight, but was she a warrior? Hmm, I wouldn't call her a warrior

 

tr.v. cham·pi·oned, cham·pi·on·ing, cham·pi·ons

 

1. To fight for, defend, or support as a champion: championed the cause of civil rights. - Like I said before, she defended people who were demons, but she never protested or fought for it. However, for this definition I guess you can call her a champion this way. But that would be saying I am a champion for always defending wrestling, but I am no where near a champion.

 

2. Obsolete. To defy or challenge. Hmm, well this definition isn't in use anymore if I am understanding their wording of obsolete. But if it is still in use, then she did challenge things. However, people challenge things everyday so that would make everyone a champion.

 

adj.

1. Holding first place or prize: a champion show dog. -Not Anya, unless she won something that I can't remember.

 

2. Superior to all others: “the champion playboy of the Western World” (John Millington Synge). -Not Anya

 

It doesn't look like Anya is a champion. Besides, just because you are redeming yourself, doesn't make you a champion. Andrew is NO WHERE near a champion, he was only "good" for a little while and he didn't even do that many bad things before hand.

 

Angel, Spike, and Buffy are champions. I can see Cordy being a champion, but that is pushing it big time.

[Anya 0]

An is first place: In my heart.

 

She is an ardent supporter of capitalism.

 

She's obviously superier to all others. Just ask her!

 

She fights....with Xander.

 

 

 

Face it, she's a champ.

[Mole 0]

Okay Anya, whatever makes you sleep better.

[chaosrage 0]

I couldn’t kill any of my core four and still call it a happy ending I couldn’t kill Dawn and still call it a happy ending

 

It's not a happy ending if Dawn dies, but it's a happy ending if Anya dies? Why couldn't he just kill off Kennedy if he wanted to kill someone...

[Max Danger 0]

If Dawn had died, Buffy would have been sad, hence it wouldn't be a happy ending. Yeah, Anya dying wasn't exactly a happy ending either, but I think Joss was meaning moreso along the lines of Buffy's happiness, her being the main character and all.

 

Also, killing Kennedy wouldn't have had much impact. It would have been just like Amanda the Vampire Slayer dying. Anya was someone people liked and was an actual regular. Those tend to have more impact than the guest stars.

 

Though, honestly, I would have rather seen anyone outside the core four die before Anya. But oh well.

[chaosrage 0]

If Dawn had died, Buffy would have been sad, hence it wouldn't be a happy ending.  Yeah, Anya dying wasn't exactly a happy ending either, but I think Joss was meaning moreso along the lines of Buffy's happiness, her being the main character and all.

When Anya died, Xander was sad. ..Well, he should've been. And Buffy should have been sad because Spike died. They won, but I don't get how he thinks it was a "happy" ending. If anything, it was bittersweet.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

An is first place: In my heart.

 

She is an ardent supporter of capitalism.

 

She's obviously superier to all others. Just ask her!

 

She fights....with Xander.

 

 

 

Face it, she's a champ.

This may be the giant birthday drunk in me. but I agree. Plus, Anya was hot.

[Mole 0]

BAHHH! It was a happy ending.

 

The whole series was about how Buffy was always alone because she was a slayer. But, since there are slayers everywhere she isn't alone anymore.

[Ravenbomb 0]

speaking of Xander, would he be considered a "champion"?

[Anya 0]

Anya's death wouldn't bother me as much if the scoobies didn't no sell it. I hate how Joss felt he HAD to go for a goofy pop culture reference scene as the end, with them talking about the mall. That may have been a big part of the show but it shouldn't have come before a proper send off. Plus the actual joke was unfunny.

 

The same thing applies to Spike's death, but I don't care about him as much.

[Max Danger 0]

I'm sure, once they had time to process everything, they paid due respects to Anya and the others that died, but you couldn't have them all standing around looking sad or crying to end the show. Truth be told, Xander was the only person who was going to be greatly affected by Anya's death, and they added a small scene with him and Andrew to kind of take care of his feelings on it. Did you want him to fall to his knees and start crying? Had to have them feel slightly good about things to close out the show. Time for mourning would be once they, like I said, were able to fully grasp what all had happened.

[Anya 0]

They don't all have to be weeping, but they could show some reaction. It's almost like they didn't even notice she missed the bus! You can have a happy ending and acknowledge some of their friends didn't make it out.

 

The scene with Andrew is decent, but as soon as it's over he walks over to the others and just suddenly stops caring and starts talking about the mall. WTF? That stuff wasn't even funny.

 

 

And yeah, Xander falling and crying would be good. Spike did that in The Gift and it was awesome.