The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[LaParkaMarka 0]

1. "Welcome to the Hellmouth" - Ep: A, Mon: A

2. "Harvest" - Ep: A, Mon: A

3. "The Witch" - Ep: A, Mon: B+

4. "Teacher's Pet" - Ep: C, Mon: D

5. "Never Kill a Boy on a First Date" - Ep: B, Mon: B

6. "The Pack" - Ep: B-, Mon: C+

7. "Angel" - Ep: A, Mon: A

8. "I, Robot -- You Jane" - Ep: D, Mon: F

9. "The Puppet Show" - Ep: B-, Mon: B-

10. "Nightmares" - Ep: B+, Mon: B

11. "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" - Ep: B, Mon: B

12. "Prophecy Girl" - Ep: A, Mon: A

I don't happen to think it's corny. It's not really fair to compare the number of good episodes to that of another season because the first one only had twelve episodes. Based on the number of episodes it has, I think it's pretty damn good.

 

And Moloch should NOT receive an "F."

Moloch was very corny. Getting into the "Demon Tree with DSL" realm of ubercorny.

 

I definately disagree with the Preying Mantis teacher getting a D. Screw that, she was great. The Pack was also really fun. Whoever graded that dislikes Xander.

[Anya 0]

Moloch is really funny. The only cool thing about the Mantis lady is that the actress was Sindel in MK Annihilation.

 

Xander is my favorite male character in the entire Whedonverse, but I hate the Pack. It's REALLY boring. There are too many shots of the pack just walking! Herbert the pig is awesome though.

 

 

My problem with season 1 is that there's no ANYA. Also it looks terrible on DVD.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Well, if you want to get technical about the Circle, we *were* introduced to the characters beforehand, starting with, what, episode 5 and Sebassis (demon slave~)? They built on from that, with Angel's connection to them (IZZY AND RACQUETBALL! CONTINUITY!), really, this episode we just learned that they're all together and they're like earth's Senior Partners, almost.

 

I'm just saying it's not like the introduced the entire clique, and all of its members in this episode.There has been build towards this, even if it was subtle (or, even if they weren't going with this all along). I have a feeling the finale would've been a lot more Illyria-centric if there was a season 6.

[Ripper 0]

Great ep.

 

 

Lets see...

 

Angel had sex with Eve and Darla, maybe Cordy and Nina and didn't lose his soul so that isn't anything new.

 

Angel Killed Drogan, but Drogan had been beaten tortured, burned...basically, he wasn't enjoying life right then. I think Drogans "Thank you" was thanking Angel for ending it.

 

Question...

 

Did Hamilton hear what they were saying behind the glamour or what?

[Guest Brian]

Also since when were the Senior Partners eternal and all that? Last I checked we didn't even know what they were. What EXACTLY are they? It's never made clear. I want to know how they connect to The First Evil too. They and FE sound almost exactly the same at times....

Isn't it sorta assumed that you're eternal when you reside in hell?

[Ripper 0]

Also since when were the Senior Partners eternal and all that? Last I checked we didn't even know what they were. What EXACTLY are they? It's never made clear. I want to know how they connect to The First Evil too. They and FE sound almost exactly the same at times....

Isn't it sorta assumed that you're eternal when you reside in hell?

and every old thing that has hit the show knows about the Wolf, Ram and Hart. It was just always understood that the senior partners were some of the old ones.

[Mole 0]

1. "Welcome to the Hellmouth" - Ep: A, Mon: A

2. "Harvest" - Ep: A, Mon: A

3. "The Witch" - Ep: A, Mon: B+

4. "Teacher's Pet" - Ep: C, Mon: D

5. "Never Kill a Boy on a First Date" - Ep: B, Mon: B

6. "The Pack" - Ep: B-, Mon: C+

7. "Angel" - Ep: A, Mon: A

8. "I, Robot -- You Jane" - Ep: D, Mon: F

9. "The Puppet Show" - Ep: B-, Mon: B-

10. "Nightmares" - Ep: B+, Mon: B

11. "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" - Ep: B, Mon: B

12. "Prophecy Girl" - Ep: A, Mon: A

I don't happen to think it's corny. It's not really fair to compare the number of good episodes to that of another season because the first one only had twelve episodes. Based on the number of episodes it has, I think it's pretty damn good.

 

And Moloch should NOT receive an "F."

Moloch was very corny. Getting into the "Demon Tree with DSL" realm of ubercorny.

 

I definately disagree with the Preying Mantis teacher getting a D. Screw that, she was great. The Pack was also really fun. Whoever graded that dislikes Xander.

No way, I love Xander. But the teacher turned into a fuckin bug, how high on the corny meter is that?

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Question...

 

Did Hamilton hear what they were saying behind the glamour or what?

He could've, but I'm thinking he noticed that the view from the window went a little cloudy. That, and everyone was just standing in the same position, making idle threats. He must be suspicious~

[Ripper 0]

Question...

 

Did Hamilton hear what they were saying behind the glamour or what?

He could've, but I'm thinking he noticed that the view from the window went a little cloudy. That, and everyone was just standing in the same position, making idle threats. He must be suspicious~

Yeah...I am thinking he woudl have been more smiley guy if he really thought that Angel was tearing them apart.

[Guest JMA]

No way, I love Xander. But the teacher turned into a fuckin bug, how high on the corny meter is that?

It's not half as corny as Buffy fighting Dracula.

 

She-Mantis > Dracula

[Pegasus Kid 0]

It's hard to take these guys as the real deal when they've just shown up and been mentioned for the first time. They're the major players because...? Lindsey said so? After all the things Buffy and Angel have faced over the years this group is really anti-climatic. Buffy has taken on a god before. After that a room full of monsters of the week just isn't all that intimidating, even if you do have someone mention that they're major players.

I'm inclined to agree with this statement. Considering the Angel and Buffy Universe is the same, it doesn't make sense to have all these major players sitting in LA while Buffy fought a God and then literally prevented the end of the world when they had to go into the Hell Mouth with every single potential they could find and shut it down. If these major players had all these plans in motion for so many years, these Buffy events would be seen as something fucking with their plans and wouldn't have been tolerated.

 

While I'm intrigued by the idea behind this Black Thorne, I don't think it was laid out well enough (with proper reasoning). They've been given to big a role and history for the build they've gotten, not to mention how much their intentions conflict with so many issues both in previous stories in Angel and with events in Buffy. Bottom line; the writers saw they wouldn't get another season and had to throw everything into the pot for a big blow off before it was too late.

[Ripper 0]

The Black Thorn doesn't need a big history or even have to be mentioned before. Basically, it is still the senior partners plan. Just like Lindsey said, the Black Thorn are just the ones that can get the plan done because the Senior Partners are not on this plane of existance. So basically, they are just the hands of the bigger body. Unitl they senior partners put their final plan into the works, they probably were powerful but not controling everything. The black Thorns purpose is the bring forth the senior partners of the Wolf, Ram and Hart plan. Nothing more.

 

There were many apocolypse..ses...(what is the plural for apocolypse?) overted in teh Buffyverse and for the most part none had anything to do with the other. This is more of the same. This is the senior Partners apocolypse which they didn't bring to a head till recently. There was no need worrying about them when there were other apocolyi to worry about.

 

And it isn't the room o monsters that is suppose to be intimidating. It is the reprecussions of killing the Black Thorn members. Like Angel said. they aren't going to be a little peeved about this one and swear revenge. The Senior partners never really REALLY tried to kill angel because of all of the prophocies about him playing a role in their plans. He knows that this will make them say "screw that" and bring the hell fire down on them. That is the reprecussions. they know they can kill the Black Thorn members. What they also know is that they can't survive the reprecussions that Wolfram and Hart will bring down on them.

[Guest JMA]

Should we start a dead-pool to see who gets offed in the series finale?

 

Illyria would be the easiest, but I doubt Joss would kill two Amy Acker characters; I'm guessing it'll be someone else. I'm saying Lorne.

[Anya 0]

I still want to know what was up with the amulet. That's a pretty major plot point they've dropped. Who was it meant for? Why did they want to stop the FE? It makes no sense. I hate how after 7 years Buffy's final battle was used to hype a storyline on another show which ended up leading to nothing in the end anyway.

[Guest Brian]

I think since Hole in the World, they've dropped the major points of the Angel/Spike rivalry to work on what is somewhat of a love story. I think Wolfram and Hart was just playing its part to stop the encroaching apocalypse, because it was stepping in on their territory.

[Anya 0]

So then what was lindsey's connection to it? Why would W&H want Angel dead or Spike in LA? If the partners are eternal evil then what is their deal with FE? How did they even get an ubie crushing magic amulet anyway? It's not like the amulet just closed the hellmouth and ended that. It lead to the death-rebirth thing too. You can't just blow that off. They need to explain it!

 

 

It infuriates me to think that all that happened on Buffy, like Anya dying, was for NOTHING. A dropped story!

 

I'm never going to get over it. It's been a year and I'm still mad.

 

Why Joss? Why!?

 

 

What did Anya do to deserve that? Besides that little minor detail of killing countless men over the course of thousands of years. Other than that she was a good person. Kinda rude. But still good. A champion even.

 

 

God, I'm so mad. The amulet thing isn't even the worst part of it. Don't even get me started on how LAME the post-battle scene was in chosen.

 

 

If Wes suffers a fate like her I'm going to cry! and then complain forever.

 

 

What is FE up to now anyway? Just chilling out with the Bringers?

[Guest Brian]

Lindsay just knows shit.

 

I'm assuming they were using Spike to create problems with Angel. Just another distraction. You've got to remember, until You're Welcome, Angel was pretty much being pulled left and right by Wolfram and Hart, torn by his obligations and his conscience.

 

As for getting the amulet, I don't know, but is it really important. Wolfram and Hart had the key, they chose to lock the door, they wanted the prize to themselves. They closed the hell mouth. Just like during the fourth season, Jasmine used the Beast (and manipulated others) to get rid of all the evil so she could get a monopoly. Wolfram and Hart did the same thing.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Should we start a dead-pool to see who gets offed in the series finale?

I think the pic in Mole's sig tells us who takes the bullet.

 

 

 

 

Though since this is the final episode and the Apocolypse, I think they all should just die out.

[Anya 0]

I can accept that the amulet is there "just because". It is a fantasy show after all.

 

But the idea that Spike coming to LA was their evil scheme is such a stretch. How could they have possibly known he would end up using it? How could they know once he got his body back that he'd stay in LA instead of going straight to Buffy(which was also just total crap). What would have happened had Andrew worn it? Or Willow? How does Lindsey tie in? Was he part of the plan or working alone?

 

So...the idea is....W&H wanted FE to lose and for Spike to mess with Angel. So they gave Angel the amulet and assumed he'd give it to Spike who they assumed would just stay in LA. Then Lindsey found the amulet and brought back Spike and played him against Angel. So Lindsey was working with the partners then? Where does the amulet stuff play into Lindsey joining the cult too?

 

 

And where is FE in all this? It should be furious. You'd think FE and the partners would be linked, or even the same thing, and wouldn't want to get in each other's way like that.

[Guest Brian]

"It's not about winning, it's about what's at stake."

- Angel from "That Vision-thing" (3x02)

 

The thing about the FE is you can't beat it. Evil is in everyone. That's why earth is the home office. And it's like he said last episode, this isn't something you can just win. The FE is still there, always has been, it just though it could manifest itself in a stronger form by sending the ubervamps to take over.

[Guest Brian]

They knew it was going to get to Spike because they knew Buffy was going to choose to give it to Spike.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, but why did it go back to being passive? What's stopping it from just getting more ubies?

 

Shouldn't it be pissed the partners ruined it's scheme? It just went away.

 

 

 

That's sooo lame. They just "knew" Spike would get it? Why not have someone else just give it directly to Spike then? Even if they did that it doesn't explain what Lindsey's deal was. The whole thing is such a bizarre, convoluted plan when the goal was just to screw with Angel for a couple months.

[Guest Brian]

Evil will always be there. Always has and always will. The first can just bide its time until it gets another opportunity, because wasn't this one predicated on the fact that Willow's resurrection went without a sacrifice?

[Guest Brian]

Spike did what he did out of love. They knew that if Spike knew Buffy chose him rather than Angel, he would wear it.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, which is something they should have played up more. They never went over exactly when FE's window to attack was over, what it got to do, ect. They should have explained that if it's ubie plan failed that it would be forced back into the dark for many more years or whatever. Instead Buffy told it off and it just bailed. lame.

 

 

Just thinking about W&H's amulet plan is so silly. Whichever senior partner brought up the idea should be demoted to evil janitor.

[Jingus 0]

Alright, this looks like Yet Another Neverending Debate, so let me make a point right here: Joss Whedon is an ordinary mortal human being. He is not the God Of Writing, nor are any of his staff. He makes mistakes, writes plot holes, forgets continuity, and sometimes chooses to go with a weaker plotline instead of a stronger one. Simple fact is that in this season of Angel, much like season 7 of Buffy, the show's creators have simply forgotten to tie up a LOT of loose threads. (Being told 2/3rds of the way thru "Oh by the way, we're canceling the show, this is your last season" couldn't have helped, either.)

[Anya 0]

Yeah. I understand. I can tolerate a LOT of mistakes.

 

Like with the Black Thorn. I understand they needed a big bad for the final battle. Using the past villains from this season like that and Angel's promo did about as good of job as they could have done given the time and circumstances. It's lame, but I'm not THAT upset.

 

But some of this isn't minor. This amulet thing ties not only into this season, but Buffy's end as well. You can't just blow it off.

 

 

 

Joss used to be the god of writing! I don't know what his problem is though. The god of writing would not kill someone off just for shock value.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It's hard to take these guys as the real deal when they've just shown up and been mentioned for the first time. They're the major players because...? Lindsey said so? After all the things Buffy and Angel have faced over the years this group is really anti-climatic. Buffy has taken on a god before. After that a room full of monsters of the week just isn't all that intimidating, even if you do have someone mention that they're major players.

I'm inclined to agree with this statement. Considering the Angel and Buffy Universe is the same, it doesn't make sense to have all these major players sitting in LA while Buffy fought a God and then literally prevented the end of the world when they had to go into the Hell Mouth with every single potential they could find and shut it down. If these major players had all these plans in motion for so many years, these Buffy events would be seen as something fucking with their plans and wouldn't have been tolerated.

 

While I'm intrigued by the idea behind this Black Thorne, I don't think it was laid out well enough (with proper reasoning). They've been given to big a role and history for the build they've gotten, not to mention how much their intentions conflict with so many issues both in previous stories in Angel and with events in Buffy. Bottom line; the writers saw they wouldn't get another season and had to throw everything into the pot for a big blow off before it was too late.

Angel and Co. were in Pylea when Buffy fought Glory and Buffy told Angel to stay in LA incase the First got past her in Season 7.

[Anya 0]

That whole thing about a second front in LA was such crap. If FE had won an army of ubies would be overrunning the earth! Even Angel saw through it and called her out on it.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

...

 

and I thought *I* was obsessed with these shows. You guys are nuts.