"RVD will never win the Heavyweight title, but..."

[KTID 0]

No they don't, they get excited when she comes out just like Stacey, Torrie etc. They could care less what she does/says as long as shes wearing a thong.

[Guest thrall585]

She has a book out, so people must care about her. Lita has tons of fans actually.

[KTID 0]

or be attracted to her.

[Guest thrall585]

Some people are attracted to her, and there are others that think she kicks ass. She has tons of fans, probably more than Trish.

[cabbageboy 0]

The KOTR final vs. Brock wasn't the main event of that show though. The riveting HHH/UT title match was.

 

If the crowd was depressed with that match I can hardly blame them. It was the worst booking decision of the past 5 years having Brock stomp RVD. It led to Brock getting pushed too hard too fast (and frankly he hasn't drawn a dime), and now has very little left to accomplish. And since RVD didn't get the title shot vs. the Rock at SS I don't think his career has ever quite righted itself.

 

You know why that decision was so fucking stupid? Here you have RVD, a guy who is quite over with no push and incredibly over with any kind of push. Now you have Brock, a jacked up rookie with no heat to speak of. It seems like the obvious thing is go with the guy who is actually over, and push him even harder...while keeping your hoss rookie fairly strong and let him build some heat over a few months.

 

Yeah, Brock started drawing some heat at SS with the Rock. Now just imagine if it had been RVD vs. the Rock in that match. Imagine how over RVD would have been if Rocky had jobbed clean to him.

 

I still maintain that they'll probably throw the world title on RVD sometime next year. Once they do the whole idiotic HHH/Orton feud and Orton has the title, you know Orton will flop horribly as champ. And since RVD's contract will be up it'll be a nice incentive for him to sign a new deal to give him some sort of title run.

 

Back to the original point of this thread. No, JR didn't actually say RVD will never win the world title. He just said he is the best guy who hasn't won the title yet. Now, unless they are truly retarded this has to be going SOMEWHERE doesn't it? I mean, surely JR wouldn't keep mentioning it if they weren't going to give him the title sometime.

 

And to close this, should RVD win the title I would mark out to unheard of levels. I'm talking about "Louisville wins the title in 1986" kind of marking out here (even if I was only about 6 then).

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

If the fans want RVD pushed, then push him.

 

I was completely against it two years ago, but that's because there were several guys (Angle, Jericho, etc) that were far better choices. On Smackdown, RVD would be nowhere with Guerrero being more over than him and 10x the wrestler.

My main arguements are with those like RVDMARK4:20 who claim that RVD is one of the best wrestlers in the company. Also, that you can't just put RVD in a title match against Goldberg next week and expect fans to buy it. If you are going to push, push him correctly. When Bret Hart won the WWF Title for the first time he was the #2 face in the company and was off main eventing Summerslam. These days the IC Title means less than the Cruiserweight (and much less than the US Title) so you can't do that. But it is a start. Start pushing him now, and maybe he'll be ready to get the World Title around Wrestlemania.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The KOTR final vs. Brock wasn't the main event of that show though. The riveting HHH/UT title match was.

 

WWE was so worried (mainly because of Austin's walk-out), they had to get the Rock to be there.

 

Never had someone going for the title got such a lack of reaction.

 

Yokozuna immediately comes to mind.

[Guest JMA]

I don't think anyone (RVD himself included) is going to say that RVD is a good technical wrestler. But I do fine him to vastly underrated in terms of skill. He doesn't use a variety of holds like other wrestlers. He seems to prefer the high-flying/maritial arts thing, obviously.

[Guest MikeSC]

Let it go man.

 

You'll get nowhere.

 

Although maybe he'll point out that RVD busted some people open TWO YEARS ago and injured HHH...which I think everyone on the roster can claim as HHH is very brittle.

 

All while ignoring HHH KOing Angle on a table and not realizing that HHH isn't completely perfect.

You mean the gimmicked table that broke when it wasn't supposed to?

 

That is Hunter's fault?

 

I've seen plenty of HHHatred here (God knows he isn't my fave), but that is just absurd.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

"RVD selled good"?

I should've said "sold." Big deal.

 

Anyway...

 

RVD's inepititude in the ring hardly affects my ego, personally. If it does for you, so be it.

Actually, what I said was that you had to "get your ego in check." You seem to think you're never wrong (and I'm not the only one who thinks this). And when a large group disagrees with you you seem to think they're all acting like sheep. Or, in this case, "RVD fanboys."

 

"Oooh, I hurt, I hurt --- now I'll jump the top rope and splash you --- now I'm hurting again". My God, I've seen Tanaka/Awesome with better selling.

What did you want from them? To lay on the mat holding their sides for several minutes?

If he's going to sell leg or rib injuries, he shouldn't be hopping to the top rope in one swift little move. That is just common sense. His moves are flashy for the sake of being flashy (the point of the somersault in the Rolling Thunder is, what, exactly? No different than Konnan's piss-poor somersault into a clothesline spot) and nothing he does seems to hurt. His kicks are weak(Rico throws markedly better kicks --- but seeing his OVW work, he's also a much better worker than Rob), his forearms are almost embarrassing --- heck, the best selling he does, honestly, is selling pain in the ribs when he hits his finisher.

 

Everything else is "I hurt --- until it's my turn to do a spot". It's called crap psychology and horrid selling. Rob's got in droves. I know somebody here claims that RVD v Lynn matches were LADEN w/ psychology, but that's just a myth in his own mind.

 

Is he the worst worker on RAW? No. Is he even BAD? No. He's OK. There are better workers on RAW --- heck, Hurricane has more of a legit beef about his treatment than does RVD --- and there are worse workers. I'm not going to say "Push Storm over him" becaus Lance doesn't deserve it.

 

But I'll definitely stick Rico, Goldust, and Hurricane over him in terms of in-ring ability and connection to the fans. Heck, Rico drew heat while paired up with the heat vacuums known as Three-Minute Warning.

 

He's nothing special. He's OK.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

People, there's a BIG difference between someone who gets pops (Lita, Funaki etc.) and someone who the fans actually care about (RVD, for instance).

Well, Funaki can outwork Rob in his sleep. Given a chance, he could probably become a legit CW contender. His mic skills aren't considerably worse.

-=Mike

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Let's not forget the jobber HHH nearly killed in his debut WWE match.

[humongous2002 0]

TheMikeSC is full of shit.

Yup, just as the sky is blue and the rain makes the green grass grow.

 

 

BUT....

 

Since coming to the WWE over 2 years ago...when has RVD been in a main event match and NOT gotten the crowd into it and loud as hell?

 

King Of The Ring final vs Brock. And yeah, Brock was making people sit on their hands at the time but Rock had them going from the word go just after that.

Nah, correction. Brock had a fan reaction starting from SummerSlam, which wasn't even the reaction he was LOOKING to get. Even before that, when they were building the feud up, Brock got nothing. After the Brock-Super Push from Hell, I never ever want to hear WWE say again that they don't choose who gets pushed; the fans do. Never had someone going for the title got such a lack of reaction.

 

And the apathy at King of the Ring for RVD/Brock, though I DO remember there being some considerable support for RVD, would be placed on Brock. RVD had a heat-filled match with Jericho just minutes earlier, while Brock had a pretty much dead match with Test. Who then could be attributed to the dead crowd, if there was one ?

Brock at the KOR was nothing more than a rookie with the super-push w/o any heat(see Orton) and the match was badly booked since it came out looking like a squash, that's why the crowd was dead.

At Summerslam he was getting pops but that's because of the fans hatred towards the Rock, people just didn't want to see him as a part time hollywood champion, Brocky got over but the fans can't really connect with him, that's why it was so easy to turn him heel b/c the fans are not going to care for a monster that beats everybody.

Now about the RVD haters, they are nothing more than a joke to me, their reasons for RVD not being ready to main event are outlandish, let them hate all they want but the facts are these, RVD is way over no matter what.

[Toxxic 0]

RVD vs HHH is going nowhere except get a lot of people VERY het up. So I'm going to sit in the middle and allow both side to attack me as I unfold the logic that is:

 

RVD vs Goldberg

 

Can RVD work better than Goldberg?

Oh hell yeah.

 

Does RVD care more about the business than Goldberg?

Oh hell yeah.

 

Does he get paid LESS than Goldberg?

I'm not doubting it.

 

Is he as over as Goldberg?

Um... not sure. RVD CAN get huge heat - or his matches can bomb, ala Unforgivable's Triple Threat (and you can't tell me that was ALL Christian's fault). But then again, the people can chant and chant for Goldberg - then go dead when he appears. Remember last week's Raw, and Goldbeg's "believe the hype!" mini-promo? I've heard Nash get louder pops.

 

Is RVD a safer worker than Goldberg?

Well, RVD's busted some people open with the Van Daminator, but he very rarely does that anymore. True, he crushed Hunter's throat, but it was probably difficult to judge how far Hunter would need to be to safely execute a Five Star when he'd never done it from there before. RVD does work stiff though, or at least he SHOULD work stiff - when he works easy it looks really crap.

Goldberg meanwhile - he's not a really bad offender, but he has a rep as being a bit careless, or so I've heard, and lest we forget he did effectively end Bret hart's career with one misjudged kick to the head...

 

So, RVD would be a better champ than Goldberg. I know it can't happen next week (face vs face? Not possible!) - but it should.

[KTID 0]

Of course RVD would be a better champ than Goldberg, he'd also be a better champ than HHH, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, Randy Orton and most of the RAW roster.

[Guest Coffey]

HAHAHA

[KTID 0]

Who would be your ideal RAW champ, Jago?

[Guest Coffey]

Right now, or over a period of time to build them up?

 

For the record, I was just laughing at your blind RVD following again.

 

It's almost like you ignore everything that has been said over the last four days because I LIKE RVD CUZ HE RULEZ

[KTID 0]

BUT HE DOES RULEZ!!!1

[KTID 0]

Oh yeah, back on topic...

 

1) Who would you have had walk out of the elimination chamber with the belt.

 

2) If the winner of RVD/Kane got a title shot at Unforgiven, who would you have win that match and would you have them win the title at Unforgiven?

[TheFranchise 0]

'Goldbeg's "believe the hype!" mini-promo? I've heard Nash get louder pops.'

 

I found that to be very funny.

[bob_barron 0]

Oh yeah, back on topic...

 

1) Who would you have had walk out of the elimination chamber with the belt.

 

2) If the winner of RVD/Kane got a title shot at Unforgiven, who would you have win that match and would you have them win the title at Unforgiven?

1) Booker T

2) Kane and possibly- as long as Shane O Mac wasn't involved

[Guest Coffey]

Oh yeah, back on topic...

 

1) Who would you have had walk out of the elimination chamber with the belt.

 

2) If the winner of RVD/Kane got a title shot at Unforgiven, who would you have win that match and would you have them win the title at Unforgiven?

1.) Goldberg

2.) I would've had Kane go over RVD and then Goldberg go over Kane in their first meeting.

[bob_barron 0]

Oh- was that referring to the first or second elimination chamber?

[Guest Coffey]

Booker T. wasn't even in the fucking EC.

 

EDIT: n/m, beaten.

[KTID 0]

The second one.

[bob_barron 0]

I would've had Goldberg win the EC and then beat HHH at Unforgiven before feuding with Kane leading to a match at SurS

[KTID 0]

So, Goldberg's your ideal World Heavyweight Champion?

[Guest Coffey]

No. You ask who should've won the last EC, not who our ideal World Champion was.

[bob_barron 0]

So, Goldberg's your ideal World Heavyweight Champion?

He's the best of the lot.

 

Until they build up RVD I'd rather Goldberg be the World Champ