Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I was watching last nights show and wondered about some of the booking, (Although I like the bounty on Goldberg's head angle). I was supremely shocked, angry, and pissed at the fact that Mark Henry DESTROYED Shawn Michaels. I was about to turn the crap off... and then I realized there was a ladder match left. I was praying for a great match and not one giant piece of crap blow off... What I got was the reason I watch wrestling still today... an awesome match. I marked out for some of the stuff in that match, and you did too. Don't lie. That military press was just AWESOME. Anyways... that match reassured me that RVD was still a major player on RAW and not an afterthought. Christian still has a bright future. I gave the match **** stars based on the fact the crowd was hot and they took some serious bumps out there... And that match showed why I watch wrestling... IT'S WRESTLING!! NOT SOAP OPERAS!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I love how people act like that was the first time Rob Van Dam did the Gorilla Press Slam into a moonsault. He did it all the time in ECW. It may have been new to WWE fans, but it sure as hell wasn't new to me. I do agree that he should do more stuff like that however. He needs to re-expand his moveset. Not to mention, the slam landed on the ladder, so that was somewhat original. I wish people would give Christian a lot more praise for his role in the match as well. Remember, he's the man who had to take all of RVD's moves.... It's just stuff like this that points out how many people are just WWE fans instead of wrestling fans. If you just follow the WWE, you aren't a wrestling fan, you're a WWE fan. IT'S WRESTLING!! NOT SOAP OPERAS!! This is the WWE. They have always been about soap opera storylines, so why should they change now? Besides, it's not like the match was an athletic technical wrestling masterpiece. It was a gimmick match with a lot of spots and big bumps. If that's your idea of wrestling, then I guess you're in the right place (WWE). Don't get me wrong, I didn't think that the match was bad. I just think that ladder matches aren't original anymore, and everytime a big spot went down, I just had flashbacks to the first time I saw it. Obviously that took away some of the "wow" factor. I think some people are making the match out to be better than it was simply because RVD won the damn thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Hey jag... I've seen RVD do the military press before... I've just never seen him hold it that long. I didn't get to see a lot of ECW, and when I did, RVD mostly fought Rhyno. That ain't the type of guy you press in the air. Yes, I should give Christian credit. He's probably done more ladder matches than RVD (I don't know though). He did a great job out there, I always knew Christian was a great talent. I was just saying my faith in RVD is assured again. I've always had it for Christian. And finally... I'm a fan of several different federations. Despite my low income, I try to get TNA as much as I can. There you go jag... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I will go along with the fact that the ladder match is getting stale though... there is no denying that. If they brought every once in a while like they do Hell in a Cell, it would make it mean more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Dude, I wasn't addressing you personally, it was a generalization. I was just trying to make some points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 OK jag. My apologizes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humongous2002 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 They both took crazy bumps out there,but RVD was the main focus of the match while Christian has finally earned the respect of the fans. Let's see Booker T have an interesting match with Christian,i got nothing against Book but his feud with Christian was crap, at least with RVD their wrestling styles didn't clashed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted September 30, 2003 What!? Their wrestling styles most definitely clash. Did you see Unforgiven? The reason the match was good last night was because all of the spots were focused around the ladders. That pretty much hides the lack of chemistry between the two. RVD's style clashes with most people. That's why he is so good at bumping...because he has to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humongous2002 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 What!? Their wrestling styles most definitely clash. Did you see Unforgiven? The reason the match was good last night was because all of the spots were focused around the ladders. That pretty much hides the lack of chemistry between the two. RVD's style clashes with most people. That's why he is so good at bumping...because he has to be. I saw Unforgiven, their styles didn't clashed it's just that RVD was half assing at the beginning of the match but by the end it got interesting.I assume RVD was doing this b/c he was doing the job and at the time he wasn't getting a push(at all). I've seen RVD/Christian matches from early 2002 and they were fun to watch, ever since HHH took over RAW the wrestlers haven't been that motivated to perform, except for Jericho and HBFey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I saw Unforgiven, their styles didn't clashed it's just that RVD was half assing at the beginning of the match but by the end it got interesting. Have it be their styles, or whatever. SOMETHING sure as fuck was clashing in that match. It was one of the most brutally painfull matches that I've ever had the displeasure to see before. Retire the ladder match, for at LEAST a year. Knowing WWE though, they'll have a TLC rematch between the two guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Also, to be more on topic. My faith in RVD to be a world champion has still yet to be created. It takes more than just the fans cheering you on to go all the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamoaRowe 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karc 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I lost all faith in RVD after Unforgiven 2002, and I lost all faith on RAW after HHH got the fake title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garth 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Care to explain how RVD is as bad as hunter instead of just throwing out a complete generalization about the two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Are you kidding me?? NO ONE is as bad as Hunter... well.. maybe Goldberg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Care to explain how RVD is as bad as hunter instead of just throwing out a complete generalization about the two. Nah, Mike's word is gold. He says something without backing it, and you just have to accept it - because Mike is never wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Care to explain how RVD is as bad as hunter instead of just throwing out a complete generalization about the two. HHH can actually work a match. HHH can actually sell, can actually work the mic, and can actually use a little psychology in a match. Hunter is hardly a great worker --- he's not even close --- but he's much closer than Rob is. Rob can't work the mic to save his life, his ring work is nothing but spots, and he half-asses it most of the time, which is unforgivable in my eyes. What the heck can RVD do? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 RVD's style clashes with everyone else's style because he's a mix of spotmonkey and flippyflopping martial artist/kickboxer/whatever, not even a cruiserweight wrestler in terms of ... well, actual wrestling skill. Or so he's being watered down to such by the WWE. I heard he's used at least a few actual wrestling moves in ECW. Which ones though, I forget. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Care to explain how RVD is as bad as hunter instead of just throwing out a complete generalization about the two. Nah, Mike's word is gold. He says something without backing it, and you just have to accept it - because Mike is never wrong. Ah, slams from the RVD fanboys. Ouch. It's hardly MY fault that he can't work the mic, a match, or have a watchable match without props. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2003 RVD's style clashes with everyone else's style because he's a mix of spotmonkey and flippyflopping martial artist/kickboxer/whatever, not even a cruiserweight wrestler in terms of ... well, actual wrestling skill. Or so he's being watered down to such by the WWE. I heard he's used actual at least a few wrestling moves in ECW. Which ones though, I forget. You heard wrong. He's actually BETTER in the WWF/E than he was in ECW. -=Mike ...The only thing worse than RVD's current matches would be if they were LONGER Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 RVD's style clashes with everyone else's style because he's a mix of spotmonkey and flippyflopping martial artist/kickboxer/whatever, not even a cruiserweight wrestler in terms of ... well, actual wrestling skill. Or so he's being watered down to such by the WWE. I heard he's used actual at least a few wrestling moves in ECW. Which ones though, I forget. You heard wrong. He's actually BETTER in the WWF/E than he was in ECW. -=Mike ...The only thing worse than RVD's current matches would be if they were LONGER *steers clear of all ECW singles matches with RVD* Thanks for the warning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 I MUCH prefer to see HHH and Goldberg with the title, all backstage antics aside. I don't see how anyone can look at RVD as of right now and see "Champion of the World". If he was a heel and played up THAT character, perhaps all of his faults would then be things in his favor, but as he is right now I don't see world champion. I see Mr. forever in the midcard. Perhaps it's the old school fan in me with the old school thinking coming through, but whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Also, don't get me wrong. I look forward to each and every time RVD is in that ring. I watch his every match on the edge of my seat, and I LOVE his style. It just doesn't say "World Champion" to me right now. I'm really just as big a fan of him as most of you are. I just like to, in my mind, put things into perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 When I hear people discuss their lack of "faith" in RVD as world champion, I want them to stop and think about how much faith they have in Triple H as champ. Then I think they would at least see it as a step up. Honestly, RVD is just as bad as Hunter. -=Mike Care to explain how RVD is as bad as hunter instead of just throwing out a complete generalization about the two. Nah, Mike's word is gold. He says something without backing it, and you just have to accept it - because Mike is never wrong. Ah, slams from the RVD fanboys. Ouch. It's hardly MY fault that he can't work the mic, a match, or have a watchable match without props. -=Mike Can't work the mic ? Again, give him time. It's the same answer every week. Give him some god damn to work the microphone, and we can see how he does. I still don't think his mic skills are bad at all. I found his interview with Triple H before Unforgiven last year pretty entertaining, and if he was given material to work with, I think he could do a good job. But, like he said, he's told to say the word "Cool" and that's it. Give him something else to do. Can't work a match ? Matter of opinion. I think he can. You think he can't. Whatever, we've argued about all this before already. No watchable matches without props ? RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero - Backlash 2002 RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero - Judgment Day 2002 RVD vs. Chris Benoit - Raw 2002 RVD vs. Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2002 RVD vs. Triple H (OTHERS may disagree) - Unforgiven 2002 RVD vs. Chris Jericho - King of the Ring 2002 and countless times on Raw. But now you'll go "Wah, wah, those aren't watchable. And those are really good wrestlers." when you realize you've been proven wrong. But hey man, as my favorite wrestler AND yours says, "Whatever. It's all cool" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Heel RVD --- Passable on the mic when using his cocky "I'm better than you" character. Face RVD --- Can't cut a main event promo to save his life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Kind of hard to get better on a mic when you aren't working with the damn thing and your whole character is to act like a moron so Triple H/Goldberg can talk for 30 minutes and make a crowd sleep. If I remember right, HBK wasn't that good with a mic at the start either. Not that I am in any way saying HBK/RVD should even be compared, but I can't see what harm it would do to have a champion who wrestles on a show instead of talking. I'd take RVD wrestling over a Triple H "I AM THAT DAMN BORING" promo. Who is going to give a damn about a champion that just talks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted September 30, 2003 Who is going to give a damn about a champion that just talks? I heard that Hulk Hogan was pretty popular in his day. It wasn't because of his technical wrestling skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheAnvil Report post Posted October 1, 2003 . Can't work the mic ? Again, give him time. It's the same answer every week. Give him some god damn to work the microphone, and we can see how he does. I still don't think his mic skills are bad at all. I found his interview with Triple H before Unforgiven last year pretty entertaining, and if he was given material to work with, I think he could do a good job. But, like he said, he's told to say the word "Cool" and that's it. Give him something else to do. Can't work a match ? Matter of opinion. I think he can. You think he can't. Whatever, we've argued about all this before already. No watchable matches without props ? RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero - Backlash 2002 RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero - Judgment Day 2002 RVD vs. Chris Benoit - Raw 2002 RVD vs. Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2002 RVD vs. Triple H (OTHERS may disagree) - Unforgiven 2002 RVD vs. Chris Jericho - King of the Ring 2002 and countless times on Raw. But now you'll go "Wah, wah, those aren't watchable. And those are really good wrestlers." when you realize you've been proven wrong. But hey man, as my favorite wrestler AND yours says, "Whatever. It's all cool" A. RVD can't work the mic! Are you in denial? Please, I mark for wrestlers, but that doesn't make me deaf, dumb, or blind. Get the net. B. As for your watchable matches...look who they're with. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, and HHH. These guys are the better guys in the business, if you have a bad match with them, you've done something seriously wrong. If you want to say that RVD can work a match, look at the last PPV. He was working with Jericho and Christian, two of the best workers in the business, and he flopped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2003 HHH is a better worker than RVD, but RVD sure doesn't bring the headaches that HHH being champion does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
