Aaron Williams badmouths Canadians

[Guest Ray]

America blows their load over Austin. What's your point?

Um.......Austin was a GREAT wrestler.

[CanadianChick 0]

Sure he was. You keep telling yourself that.

[Guest Ray]

Sure he was. You keep telling yourself that.

Would you mind telling me how he wasn't?

[CanadianChick 0]

I'm sorry, but I don't consider kick-kick-punch-punch-kick-Lou Thesz Press-kick-Stunner great wrestling. But that may just be me.

[Guest Ray]

I'm sorry, but I don't consider kick-kick-punch-punch-kick-Lou Thesz Press-kick-Stunner great wrestling. But that may just be me.

Oh lord, I knew THAT crap was coming.

 

Let's just ignore the superb selling, smart ring psychology, amazingly deep storytelling... Yeah, all that means nothing because he didn't do enough suplexes or armbars.

[Highland 0]

Austin was a great wrestler in his Stunning Steve days and I've always been disappointed, injuries notwithstanding, that SCSA brawls rather than puts on a ***** classic. But he obviously knew what he was doing, since the brawling Steve Austin is the most over character of all time. Hogan can also lay claim to that lofty title, and we all know he was not mat tactician. It all makes you wonder if it's worth being a Benoit stuck forever in the mid card when the REAL secret is doing that Taker, SCSA, Hogan, Nash, HHH, etc. have done, which is brawl there way through most of their matched, do a spot or to, finisher, ring bell.

HBK and Bret are among the few world champions that could both brawl and wrestle, but they are in the minority.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm sorry, but I don't consider kick-kick-punch-punch-kick-Lou Thesz Press-kick-Stunner great wrestling. But that may just be me.

Oh lord, I knew THAT crap was coming.

 

Let's just ignore the superb selling, smart ring psychology, amazingly deep storytelling... Yeah, all that means nothing because he didn't do enough suplexes or armbars.

Dude, Austin's good but don't get too crazy. He's good, but he's Kobashi good, Benoit good or Tsuruta good. He's more in the Hart/Flair area of good.

[Guest JMA]

JMA, you REALLY have a bug up your ass about this whole Canada / France thing, don't you?

This has nothing to do with France. It doesn't even have that much to do with Canada. It has to do with Vince thinking he and his company are infallible. THAT'S what I'm pissed about. The xenophobia McMahon shows is also troublesome, but that's to be expected from him.

[Guest Ray]

Austin was a great wrestler in his Stunning Steve days and I've always been disappointed, injuries notwithstanding, that SCSA brawls rather than puts on a ***** classic. But he obviously knew what he was doing, since the brawling Steve Austin is the most over character of all time. Hogan can also lay claim to that lofty title, and we all know he was not mat tactician. It all makes you wonder if it's worth being a Benoit stuck forever in the mid card when the REAL secret is doing that Taker, SCSA, Hogan, Nash, HHH, etc. have done, which is brawl there way through most of their matched, do a spot or to, finisher, ring bell.

HBK and Bret are among the few world champions that could both brawl and wrestle, but they are in the minority.

"Brawling" is still wrestling, you know. Austin had plenty of great wrestling matches, while doing what some would call "brawling."

 

Witness his masterpiece at 'mania 17...

 

Dude, Austin's good but don't get too crazy. He's good, but he's Kobashi good, Benoit good or Tsuruta good. He's more in the Hart/Flair area of good.

Well, OF COURSE he's no Jumbo Tsuruta.

 

But he's FAR, FAR, FAR from "just a punch kicker" as so many people claim.

 

Austin brought so many great things to his matches, which go unnoticed by those who can't/won't look for them.

[Guest netslob]

ok, 2 things:

 

A). who is Aaron williams?

 

and B). Why should i care?

[Guest wildpegasus]

Sorry Ray, but I hated Wrestlemania 17. The whole match gave off the impression of being too fake looking to me. Smart at points like the Bret Hart sleeper/turnbuckle spot but still reeked of being way too fake.

 

Austin's pretty good but my main problem with him is his punching. Punching is illegal. Punching is not wrestling and when you do it 500 times in a match it gets annoying because this isn't boxing. It's wrestling. And don't get me started on those punches after the Lou Thez press.

 

The things I did like about Austin though was the fact he never slacked off and had a very good work ethic. Also, he knew what he was doing in the ring and brought along with him great facial expressions.

[Highland 0]

["Brawling" is still wrestling, you know. Austin had plenty of great wrestling matches, while doing what some would call "brawling."

 

Witness his masterpiece at 'mania 17...

 

[but he's FAR, FAR, FAR from "just a punch kicker" as so many people claim.

 

Austin brought so many great things to his matches, which go unnoticed by those who can't/won't look for them.

Point taken.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Is Williams just kayfabing and doing a heel article? It just seems like he's using reverse physcology.

 

WP-Canadian and proud of it!

 

Curses, looks like his article is working on me.

They're just trying to get any excuse they can to explain why Shawn Michaels, one of Raw's top faces, gets booed whenever they are in Canada while Chris Jericho gets a hero's ovation.

[bob_barron 0]

The whole match gave off the impression of being too fake looking to me.

 

You can say that about any wrestling match.

 

Smart at points like the Bret Hart sleeper/turnbuckle spot but still reeked of being way too fake.

 

Why? It was a nice wink wink to those who remember Survivor Series 96 and showed that Austin had learned from his previous mistakes and Rock had watched tapes and knew how to counter certain holds.

 

Austin's pretty good but my main problem with him is his punching. Punching is illegal.

 

But the X-7 match was no-DQ.

[Damaramu 0]

To anyone who says Austin wasn't a great worker....you obviously have no idea what a good wrestling match is. Austin did them in his sleep during his Stunning Steve days. In 96-98 he was putting on great matches in the WWF. Once the injuries took there toll in late 98/99 though he started slowing down and started brawling. Then when he came back in late 2000/2001 and wrestled someone that would light a fire under his ass(see:Benoit) he exploded and had the best matches of the year. No doubt 2001 was Austin's year and he was having great matches without even thinking about it. Witness Summerslam 2001 where he CARRIES Angle.

Then when he started not giving a damn in 2002 he started sucking.

Basically Austin can have a great match when he feels like it.

If you think he's a bad wrestler then you either:

a) don't know good wrestling

b) are just saying that because you don't like what he's doing to RAW.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The match at Wrestlemania 17 comes off as too fake. The point of wrestling is to make it look REAL. From what I remember-

 

The sharpshooters were horrable as this alone ruins the match for me

 

Bad Blade job

 

Fake looking punches

 

I imagine the people's elbow made an appearance here. If so, that automatically makes a match negative stars

 

A good percentage of Rock's arsenal comes off as too fake. I don't think I have to explain this. Austin, while not as bad also suffers from this.

 

Barron, I didn't mean the turnbuckle spot seemed fake. I was talking about the overall match.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

To anyone who says Austin wasn't a great worker....you obviously have no idea what a good wrestling match is. Austin did them in his sleep during his Stunning Steve days. In 96-98 he was putting on great matches in the WWF. Once the injuries took there toll in late 98/99 though he started slowing down and started brawling. Then when he came back in late 2000/2001 and wrestled someone that would light a fire under his ass(see:Benoit) he exploded and had the best matches of the year. No doubt 2001 was Austin's year and he was having great matches without even thinking about it. Witness Summerslam 2001 where he CARRIES Angle.

Then when he started not giving a damn in 2002 he started sucking.

Basically Austin can have a great match when he feels like it.

If you think he's a bad wrestler then you either:

a) don't know good wrestling

b) are just saying that because you don't like what he's doing to RAW.

Ahem. A certain dude named Benoit also had a pretty good (if not better) year then Austin in 2001.

 

- Royal Rumble Ladder Match w/ Jericho

- Kick ass match on RAW w/ Eddy G that nobody remembers

- WrestleMania 17 Match w/ Angle

- RAW Cage Match w/ Angle

- Ultimate Submission match w/ Angle

- 2 out of 3 Falls w/ Angle.

- TLC 3

- Smackdown in Edmonton w/ Austin.

 

The problem w/ Austin is his inconsistency. The guy can go from hot to cold in a heartbeat. I find that his main issue lies in matches where he has nothing to gain from the end result. If Austin knows he's going over (vs Rock at Mania, vs Benoit in Edmonton, vs Angle at SummerSlam) then the workrate is dramatically increased. Compare that to matches where he wasn't going over or didn't care (vs Angle at Unforgiven, vs Jericho at No Way Out, vs Hall at Mania) then you get a very different situation.

[Damaramu 0]

To anyone who says Austin wasn't a great worker....you obviously have no idea what a good wrestling match is. Austin did them in his sleep during his Stunning Steve days. In 96-98 he was putting on great matches in the WWF. Once the injuries took there toll in late 98/99 though he started slowing down and started brawling. Then when he came back in late 2000/2001 and wrestled someone that would light a fire under his ass(see:Benoit) he exploded and had the best matches of the year. No doubt 2001 was Austin's year and he was having great matches without even thinking about it. Witness Summerslam 2001 where he CARRIES Angle.

Then when he started not giving a damn in 2002 he started sucking.

Basically Austin can have a great match when he feels like it.

If you think he's a bad wrestler then you either:

a) don't know good wrestling

b) are just saying that because you don't like what he's doing to RAW.

Ahem. A certain dude named Benoit also had a pretty good (if not better) year then Austin in 2001.

 

- Royal Rumble Ladder Match w/ Jericho

- Kick ass match on RAW w/ Eddy G that nobody remembers

- WrestleMania 17 Match w/ Angle

- RAW Cage Match w/ Angle

- Ultimate Submission match w/ Angle

- 2 out of 3 Falls w/ Angle.

- TLC 3

- Smackdown in Edmonton w/ Austin.

 

The problem w/ Austin is his inconsistency. The guy can go from hot to cold in a heartbeat. I find that his main issue lies in matches where he has nothing to gain from the end result. If Austin knows he's going over (vs Rock at Mania, vs Benoit in Edmonton, vs Angle at SummerSlam) then the workrate is dramatically increased. Compare that to matches where he wasn't going over or didn't care (vs Angle at Unforgiven, vs Jericho at No Way Out, vs Hall at Mania) then you get a very different situation.

Ok you can have the Royal Rumble match, the Eddie G. match, the WM match, the Cage Match, and the Austin match.

But the TLC3 match blew(it was all laying around in between spots) and Benoit left halfway through, Ultimate Submission was just plain boring and had some odd psychology, and the 2 out of 3 falls match was nothing special and Austin's best match from that year(against Angle at Summerslam) beats it.

 

Like I said....it's like Austin has an on and off switch. And when he turns it on....well to be cliche...IT'S ON. He can crank out a good match while he's asleep. I'm not denying that he has times when he just doesn't try(and it still ends up being about ***) but some people are saying that he's not good at all. Which simply isn't true to anybody who's actually watched wrestling for any length of time.

 

I mean come on CanadianChick. You think Edge is good but not Austin? Edge couldn't hold Austin's jock EVER.

[CanadianChick 0]

First off, I never said Austin wasn't good, I said he wasn't great. People are acting like I just called Austin the worst wrestler ever.

 

Since someone earlier in the thread said Austin has "great" storytelling skills, I would love examples that don't include someone named Bret Hart.

 

And "Masterpiece" at WM XVII? You have got to be kidding me. What in god's name made this match a masterpeice? Here's a question to everybody who loves that match: why doesn't Rock ever get any credit? It's always Austin.

 

Austin had a pretty good year in 2001, but before Benoit got injured, his matches were much better. I'm pretty sure LOTC already pointed that out, but the point should be emphasized.

 

To say that I say that Austin isn't a great worker because I don't know what good wrestling is is ridiculous. And to say I just say that because I don't like what he's doing right now is equally ridiculous. I can seperate what someone has done in the past compared to what someone is currently doing.

 

TMD, why bring Edge into this discussion? How does that justify Austin being a so-called great wrestler? I'll say this though: I'd rather watch a Edge match rather than an Austin match any day of the week.

[Guest Ray]

Since someone earlier in the thread said Austin has "great" storytelling skills, I would love examples that don't include someone named Bret Hart.

Just to name a few...

 

Raw 11/20/00

Raw 1/8/01

No Way Out 2001

Wrestlemania 17

Raw 5/21/01

Smackdown 5/31/01

Smackdown 6/4/01

Summerslam 2001

 

don't tell me Austin was carried.

 

And "Masterpiece" at WM XVII? You have got to be kidding me. What in god's name made this match a masterpeice?

Amazingly deep story?

Enormous intensity?

Superb facial expressions?

 

A truly amazing performance from Austin. His portrayal of a desperate man willing to do anything to win was beautiful. The subtle ways he cheats, etc... All superb.

 

Here's a question to everybody who loves that match: why doesn't Rock ever get any credit? It's always Austin.

Because it was Austin telling the great story. Rock does his job, but he's clearly along for the ride.

 

Austin had a pretty good year in 2001, but before Benoit got injured, his matches were much better. I'm pretty sure LOTC already pointed that out, but the point should be emphasized.

His point is wrong. Austin was easily the best wrestler in 2001. I love Benoit more than anyone, but there's NO way he had a better year than Austin. Yeah, the ladder match was great. The WM17 match with Angle was good, but not even close to Austin-Rock. The cage match was good, but overrated, and remembered for the bumps. The submission match and 2/3 falls matches with Angle were not great, or even close to great. TLC3? Give me a break. Benoit's best work in 2001 was with Austin, who essentially guided the injured Benoit through the match.

 

Austin was easily one of the best the WWF ever saw.

[CanadianChick 0]

Just to name a few...

 

Raw 11/20/00

Raw 1/8/01

No Way Out 2001

Wrestlemania 17

Raw 5/21/01

Smackdown 5/31/01

Smackdown 6/4/01

Summerslam 2001

 

don't tell me Austin was carried.

 

Can you please specify which match those Raw/Smackdowns are? But I can comment of the others.

 

No Way Out 2001: Alright, I'll admit this was good storytelling. It was the payoff to a 6 month build.

Wrestlemania 17: Man wanting belt. Yeah, deep.

Summerslam 2001: Paranoid man wanting to keep built. Another deep one.

 

Amazingly deep story?

Enormous intensity?

Superb facial expressions?

 

A truly amazing performance from Austin. His portrayal of a desperate man willing to do anything to win was beautiful. The subtle ways he cheats, etc... All superb.

Deep storyline? I covered that already.

Enormous intensity? Sure, there was intensity. I'll give you that.

Superb facial expressions? I'll keep this in mind the next time I judge the greatness of a match. Because, you know, the facial expressions just MAKE a match.

 

It doesn't take a great actor to play a desperate man. You know who is just as good at doing that, all the time? Triple H.

 

Because it was Austin telling the great story. Rock does his job, but he's clearly along for the ride.

You know what? Rock did the 'desperate man willing to win belt' just as well as Austin. The only reason why Austin's acting job stands out is because he turned heel at the end.

 

Austin was easily one of the best the WWF ever saw.

No, he wasn't.

[bob_barron 0]

11.20- v. Benoit

1.8- v. Angle

5.21- w/HHH v. Benoit/Jericho

5.31- v. Benoit

6.4- Spike?

[Guest Askewniverse]

6/4/01 Raw (not Smackdown)- Austin vs. Jericho

[Damaramu 0]

TMD, why bring Edge into this discussion? How does that justify Austin being a so-called great wrestler? I'll say this though: I'd rather watch a Edge match rather than an Austin match any day of the week.

Just proving my point that you don't know what a good wrestler is. Austin's best match is better than 10 of Edge's best combined.

[Damaramu 0]

No Way Out 2001: Alright, I'll admit this was good storytelling. It was the payoff to a 6 month build.

Wrestlemania 17: Man wanting belt. Yeah, deep.

Summerslam 2001: Paranoid man wanting to keep built. Another deep one.

Are you just trying to look wrong through this whole thread? We're not talking about the story surrounding the match. We're talking about the story that was told THROUGH THE MATCH. You know wrestlers create a story with there movements in a match....and Austin was the best. That's what he means by good storyteller. Not the way he portrayed the storyline.

 

No, he wasn't.

 

Yes he was.

 

Oh and watch some old WCW Stunning Steve stuff. It easily blows away anything the WWE is putting on today. Ever seen the Hollywood Blondes?

[bob_barron 0]

6/4/01 Raw (not Smackdown)- Austin vs. Jericho

That match sucked- Stupid ending that made no one look good and was flat through out

[CanadianChick 0]

TMD, why bring Edge into this discussion? How does that justify Austin being a so-called great wrestler? I'll say this though: I'd rather watch a Edge match rather than an Austin match any day of the week.

Just proving my point that you don't know what a good wrestler is. Austin's best match is better than 10 of Edge's best combined.

Yes, I do know what a good wrestler is. Benoit-great wrestler. Bret Hart-great wrestler. Eddie Guerrero-Great wrestler.

 

And for the record, I have yet to see a match of Austin's that is better than the No Mercy tag match last year. You know, the one with Edge in it! Hey, looks like I found one match that surpasses Austin's best. Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

And for the matches, I have a shoddy memory, so I can't recall any great storytelling in those matches. But I won't say that there wasn't, because, well, I can't remember. Except for that Spike match. In my opinion, that was Spike telling the story mostly. You know, underdog defending girlfriend.

[Damaramu 0]

You've got to be kidding...right? Austin's match with Benoit in Edmonton was light years ahead of that.

Oh I know a match Austin was in that was better than anything Edge could dream of. WrestleWar 92 War Games. You know widely considered the best american match of the 90's. The best cage match ever. You're saying that that tag match is better? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man you're denser than I thought.

[CanadianChick 0]

No Way Out 2001: Alright, I'll admit this was good storytelling. It was the payoff to a 6 month build.

Wrestlemania 17: Man wanting belt. Yeah, deep.

Summerslam 2001: Paranoid man wanting to keep built. Another deep one.

Are you just trying to look wrong through this whole thread? We're not talking about the story surrounding the match. We're talking about the story that was told THROUGH THE MATCH. You know wrestlers create a story with there movements in a match....and Austin was the best. That's what he means by good storyteller. Not the way he portrayed the storyline.

I am saying what 'storytelling' he did during the match. The 'story' he told during the matches were 'man wanting belt' and 'paranoid man wanting to keep belt'. There was no other storytelling. If there was, please, enlighten me.

 

Yes he was.

 

Oh and watch some old WCW Stunning Steve stuff. It easily blows away anything the WWE is putting on today. Ever seen the Hollywood Blondes?

 

Yes, I have seen Hollywood Blondes, and they were damn good. But that's only a fraction of his career. In WWE, he was never a great wrestler. That's were the high point of his career happened, so shouldn't that be the best judge on whether he was a great wresler?

[CanadianChick 0]

You've got to be kidding...right? Austin's match with Benoit in Edmonton was light years ahead of that.

Oh I know a match Austin was in that was better than anything Edge could dream of. WrestleWar 92 War Games. You know widely considered the best american match of the 90's. The best cage match ever. You're saying that that tag match is better? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man you're denser than I thought.

Austin's match with Benoit in Edmonton was great, but not as great as people claim. And why would I say any different if I'm a huge Benoit fan? The 10 germans were a great specticule, but were useless and stupid in the context of the match. And the finish sucked.

 

I'll admit, I have not seen the 92 War Games match recently enough to judge it. So I will not comment on that.

 

Oh, and I'm loving the personal cheap shots. Just keep it coming. Because that'll make your point look better.