Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 But Plato's Cave is a very basic philosophy concept...I've been through 2 Philosophy courses and it's been heavily mentioned as well as in my European Literature class. It's a very popular idea. So he's not very smart for knowing about it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Yeah I was thinking....if I was in the Matrix...I WOULDN'T WANT TO LEAVE. Why the hell would I want to go from living real life to living in a piece of shit destroyed earth? q Well, after you were trained you'd be a virtual one-man army inside the Matrix; armed with an ecyclopiedic knowledge of every hand-to-hand fighting style known to man, and a full arsenal. Basically, you'd be the Punsiher. Plus, in the real world you'd be waging war against evil oppressors. Why WOULDN'T you want to fight? That's what men are supposed to do, not work in cubicles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 18, 2003 But Plato's Cave is a very basic philosophy concept...I've been through 2 Philosophy courses and it's been heavily mentioned as well as in my European Literature class. It's a very popular idea. So he's not very smart for knowing about it... That was my point. He made quite a fuss over Plato's cave. The guy just strikes me as the kind that LOVES to let everyone else know how smart he thinks he is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Well what's he's saying is making a lot of sense...I'm resisting going to the spoiler's page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 oh and for the record, no i did not come up with this shit on my own. i copied it from another msgboard that didn't give a good link. I think it came off of a matrix msgboard on imdb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 I read the spoiler page with pictures and i am not sure i buy it. first off, either they left out 3/4 of the movie on purpose or just cause they thought is wasn't important, secondly, were any of those pics anything that you couldn't just freeze fram from the trailer and post on the net? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 I did actually read the spoilers since it won't really affect whether I go see it or not. All I can say is.....be afraid, be very afraid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 I read two other spoilers for the flick and that one sums it up best. If I can remember where I saw the best one I'll post it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 I just rewatched Reloaded after reading this article and it helped me understand it way more. Alot of what was said in the first post of this thread makes sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 For anyone who cares, here is a complete spoiler for Revolutions...IT IS A COMPLETE SPOILER OF THE MOVIE! DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON"T WANT TO KNOW! COMPLETE REVOLUTIONS *SPOILERS!* PICS INCLUDED! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): If that's how the movie ends then I'm not seeing it. Them striking a deal with the machines to save zion would be absolutely stupid. How, after all this, could they end the movie with the matrix still intact??? And Trinity dying??? It has to be fake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 For anyone who cares, here is a complete spoiler for Revolutions...IT IS A COMPLETE SPOILER OF THE MOVIE! DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON"T WANT TO KNOW! COMPLETE REVOLUTIONS *SPOILERS!* PICS INCLUDED! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): If that's how the movie ends then I'm not seeing it. Them striking a deal with the machines to save zion would be absolutely stupid. How, after all this, could they end the movie with the matrix still intact??? And Trinity dying??? It has to be fake. I hope you are right man, I really do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 How on earth would they have been able to see the moive to give those spoilers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 The movie has been made for a couple of years now. And like I said, I have read the same spoilers from at least three different sites. Take it for what it's worth, but I am pretty sure they are correct. Which sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 As I have said since Reloaded came out, the Wachowskis booked themselves into a corner here. After Reloaded it dawned upon me that this thing can't really end to anyone's satisfaction. Here's some thoughts I had on those spoilers: Spoiler (Highlight to Read): This whole idea of the Oracle telling Neo to strike a deal with the machines to save Zion and take out mutual enemy Smith is complete bullshit. That said the idea of Smith taking over the Oracle and making her a clone sounds amusing. There are a goofy amount of deaths in this movie. How are we supposed to buy into Trinity and Neo BOTH dying in this movie considering they both already died in the previous movies and were brought back to life???? Also, Neo fighting the Smiths on a sidewalk sounds like a pretty uninspiring climactic fight considering what all is at stake. Another thing that sounds goofy (and also affirms my idea about the Matrix not being such a bad thing) is that apparently Neo and Morpheus decide that it's not such a bad thing after all, hence the desire to aid the machines in defeating Smith before he destroys everything. While I came to the conclusion that the Matrix isn't that bad of a thing a while ago, we've been force fed this bullshit about "The Matrix is evil, it isn't real" for 2 movies! Also, if that ending scene is correct I can already see the popcorn being thrown at the screen. The whole notion of the Oracle's prophecy of Morpheus "finding the One" actually meaning that he will simply find Niobe to be his girlfriend again is so mindblowingly retarded and offensive to the audience's intelligence. You mean to tell me after all this stuff in 3 movies of Morpheus being oh so serious about finding THE ONE to save humanity that all the prophecy was about was his love life???? Adding to the retardedness of it is that Niobe wasn't even a character in the first movie when this prophecy was first mentioned! So basically to sum it all up, the Matrix isn't destroyed really, Neo dies, Trinity dies, and we have a shaggy dog joke ending with the whole basis of the series being a reference to Morpheus scoring with a chick. Way to go Wachowski Bros.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 As I have said since Reloaded came out, the Wachowskis booked themselves into a corner here. After Reloaded it dawned upon me that this thing can't really end to anyone's satisfaction. Here's some thoughts I had on those spoilers: Spoiler (Highlight to Read): This whole idea of the Oracle telling Neo to strike a deal with the machines to save Zion and take out mutual enemy Smith is complete bullshit. That said the idea of Smith taking over the Oracle and making her a clone sounds amusing. There are a goofy amount of deaths in this movie. How are we supposed to buy into Trinity and Neo BOTH dying in this movie considering they both already died in the previous movies and were brought back to life???? Also, Neo fighting the Smiths on a sidewalk sounds like a pretty uninspiring climactic fight considering what all is at stake. Another thing that sounds goofy (and also affirms my idea about the Matrix not being such a bad thing) is that apparently Neo and Morpheus decide that it's not such a bad thing after all, hence the desire to aid the machines in defeating Smith before he destroys everything. While I came to the conclusion that the Matrix isn't that bad of a thing a while ago, we've been force fed this bullshit about "The Matrix is evil, it isn't real" for 2 movies! Also, if that ending scene is correct I can already see the popcorn being thrown at the screen. The whole notion of the Oracle's prophecy of Morpheus "finding the One" actually meaning that he will simply find Niobe to be his girlfriend again is so mindblowingly retarded and offensive to the audience's intelligence. You mean to tell me after all this stuff in 3 movies of Morpheus being oh so serious about finding THE ONE to save humanity that all the prophecy was about was his love life???? Adding to the retardedness of it is that Niobe wasn't even a character in the first movie when this prophecy was first mentioned! So basically to sum it all up, the Matrix isn't destroyed really, Neo dies, Trinity dies, and we have a shaggy dog joke ending with the whole basis of the series being a reference to Morpheus scoring with a chick. Way to go Wachowski Bros.! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): The One is the kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Let me just say Reloaded has totally made me not want to see the next movie. They've complicated this so much that I don't think there's anyway to resolve it in only 1 movie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Hm, how's about we let them tell the bloody story and then try and figure out if all our little theories are correct. Somehow, I seriously doubt the Waichowski's have allowed the ending to this to be leaked. And I also doubt that your average leak-geek supplying it would have a firm enough grasp on what they've been trying to do to give an accurate set of spoilers. But that's just me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Is it still a spoiler when you have no idea what is being said? A while back I remember reading here about the "Bill and Ted" ending, and personally I think that would be the best way to go... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Hm, how's about we let them tell the bloody story and then try and figure out if all our little theories are correct. Somehow, I seriously doubt the Waichowski's have allowed the ending to this to be leaked. And I also doubt that your average leak-geek supplying it would have a firm enough grasp on what they've been trying to do to give an accurate set of spoilers. But that's just me. In this day and age it's damn near impossible to keep something this big under wraps for this long. I'm buying it for now, but it still won't keep me from seeing it next month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Mr. J, let's say you are right about that last bit of spoiler info about...... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): The lame kid actually being the ONE. Does that make it suck any less? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Oh no, it still sucks, horribly. Just like the entire spoiler. That is a terrible direction for the movie to go, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2003 Ok I reread those spoilers and I'm not entirely sure I understand the whole part about... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): The kid being the ONE. I'm assuming he is the one because he takes over as Architect at the end? Did the Wachowski Bros. not realize that NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THAT KID! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 Wait, so all this time The One was really just a program and not the destined prophecy we've come to believe since 1999? Man, what the fuck... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 I don't exactly know dude. I even read that whole page of spoilers and it didn't really say anything about The One just being a program (or maybe it did between the lines, hell who knows?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuban Linx 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 I hope those spoilers aren't correct. I've seen plenty of theories and possible plots for Revolutions that completely blow those spoilers out of the water in just about every possible way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 I just watched Reloaded and I'm waiting for Revolutions to come out. As far as the possible ending of Neo and the other programs being deleted and the Matrix living being rebooted after Zion's fall and rise from it's ashes, I think it's a great idea and a complete change from the "Hero saves the world" bullshit that we are all accustomed to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ram Report post Posted October 19, 2003 If those spoilers are true, then Revolutions will be the biggest cinematic dissappointment in a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 Well, a cynical ending can be a good thing (see T3, that was a real downer but was very effective). But in this case after waiting 3 movies there really needs to be a legit payoff. The problem is that Reloaded screwed the pooch so much that there is really no good way of paying it off. From any angle you look at it, people will be pissed: --If Neo and Co. succeed and destroy the Matrix, freeing everyone, then everyone will be pissed at having to live in a scorched earth hellhole. --If Neo and Co. fail then the entire series is kinda pointless and people will be pissed. What those alleged spoilers point to is a really odd and uneasy combination of those two, and it works perhaps even worse than either scenario. If I had to write a finale given the insane rules and backstory here's what I'd go with for an ending: --Neo and Smith finally have the big showdown, with Smith cloning at such a rate that it overloads the Matrix. Neo doesn't KNOW this exactly, I mean if he did he'd just say fuck it and let the Matrix be destroyed by Smith. It wouldn't just be guys fighting on a street like we see in the trailer. It would be an epic brawl going all over every place we've seen in the Matrix....entire buildings are destroyed, the earth shakes, etc. After whooping about 100 Smiths the real Smith just tells his clones to back off, he wants it mano a mano. Neo starts kicking his ass obviously, and after a while Smith turns chickenshit and starts bringing in more and more clones to the point where the Matrix starts breaking down. Everything starts just blowing up left and right, but Neo manages to make it to a predetermined phone and gets out...then BOOM! Matrix is destroyed. Problem is though, there would need to be another plot thread with Morpheus and Trinity leading forces into the mainframe where all the humans are kept in the pods. We have a big battle here as well, with our heroes winning out and taking control of it, shutting down the control the Matrix has over everyone. Thus everyone is able to live once the Matrix is destroyed. It should be noted that this can't actually DESTROY the Matrix but does create the gap for Neo and Smith to duke it out. Now, what to do? Well, everyone is free, Matrix is all destroyed. There needs to be one last killer scene with the newly freed people seem to be puzzled and not really all that into living in a post apocalyptic world. From here I see two acceptable endings: 1. Someone (Morpheus for example) gives the big speech telling everyone that things will be ok and while life might not be as good on the surface now as it was in the Matrix, at least they have a real freedom to make their own choices. From here the puzzled or upset looks turn to ones of slightly hopeful optimism, and they rebuild Zion for the last time. 2. This is more go for broke. The people are REALLY unhappy with being freed from the Matrix and now living in a scorched hellhole. Once they find out who "liberated" them an especially radical group starts a riot and during this EVERYONE (Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, etc) is wiped out. In other words it all ends in a state of chaos, a troubling mob rule. I think both of those scenarios actually make decent sense, though the casual viewer might not be too thrilled with the 2nd option. Might be considered too bleak. Either way it works better than that page of spoilers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackFlagg 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 2. This is more go for broke. The people are REALLY unhappy with being freed from the Matrix and now living in a scorched hellhole. Once they find out who "liberated" them an especially radical group starts a riot and during this EVERYONE (Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, etc) is wiped out. In other words it all ends in a state of chaos, a troubling mob rule. Total anarchy is good for me, heh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2003 (edited) I like the idea that everyone is really a program and Smith is the human element. That can be played off of well. If any of that number crap gets involved I hope the Wachowski brothers get hit by a bus. Idea for ending: Neo fights Smiths Neo finds out Smiths are the humans So playing up the idea that the programs try to avoid deletion Neo leads Zion (who don't know they are programs) to try and destroy Smiths. So pretty much you get a Neo heel turn, while Trinity, Morpheus, etc. think they are fighting the good fight. I think there is enough thought in there with the "humans are a virus" bit and the idea that the programs want to avoid deletion. Makes you think back to the previous two films, but isn't absurd in the lengths it tries to make you think. After that I would have Neo win just because I like the bad guy winning, but either way works. Edited October 19, 2003 by the pinjockey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
