Europeans are worse than cockroaches

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What the hell? If you don't believe in [islam], it's not exactly like you need to pay attention to the tradition of disassociating yourself from it.

You're an ignorant fool. Do you think someone's attention might be gained by death sentences for "apostates" (defined, among other things, as anyone who renounces Islam for any reason whatsoever) which even family members have a religious duty to execute?

Point 1) Did I say one had to go around parading this knowledge? No. You could tell yourself you don't believe in whatever faith and as long as you don't make it well-known to other people, you won't face a backlash.

 

Point 2) Any country that would legally let someone get away with a religion-induced murder is downright loony. This is all covered in my new book which I've been preaching to this forum for months now:

 

[Guest JMA]

Point 2) Any country that would legally let someone get away with a religion-induced murder is downright loony. This is all covered in my new book which I've been preaching to this forum for months now:

 

Can I have a copy?

[MrRant 0]

I won't read it due to it probably having left wing bias.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I won't read it due to it probably having left wing bias.

Actually, that's all just in one chapter (Chapter 13: "Random Bush Bashing And Namecalling Without Reason") The first 12 chapters are fine.

 

And watch out for the sequel, "Theo-Crazies" coming in bookstores next year.

[Vyce 0]

I won't read it due to it probably having left wing bias.

Actually, that's all just in one chapter (Chapter 13: "Random Bush Bashing And Namecalling Without Reason") The first 12 chapters are fine.

 

And watch out for the sequel, "Theo-Crazies" coming in bookstores next year.

Can I get a signed copy?

 

Or maybe just a free premium membership to jobberoftheweek.com?

 

Or a "The Theocracy Stops Here" doormat?

[Firestarter 0]

I'm sure someone as learned as yourself would know about wonderful Christian ideas like the Inquisition

Look, you're new here, so you probably aren't aware that I'm one of the most consistent critics of Christianity on this board. I'll refer you to this NHB thread for documentation:

Christianity &c

"As a sociological phenomenon Christianity bears the responsibility for each and every horror committed in its name, from the witch-hunts of the Inquisition to the racks and the iron maidens and the torture-chambers of "Innocent" VIII to the abortion clinic bombings to the snipers and the chanting bullies and the death threats, the collaboration with the Nazis, the slaughter of the Albigensians and Waldenses, the Children's Crusade and the Anglicans murdering the Protestants, and the Protestants murdering the Catholics and the Baptists and the Jesuits, and the Roman Catholics murdering everyone else. It is the personal responsibility of each and every Christian of any denomination or no denomination at all to make absolutely certain that NOTHING of the sort ever happens again. It is dangerously delusional, the absolute height of smug hypocrisy, the most offensive pinnacle of historical revisionism, to pretend for one second that none of these obscene atrocities had anything to do with the Bible or Christianity. No sect which claims Jesus as a saviour is exempt. None. You don't just have the blood of the Lamb on your hands, you have the blood of unnumbered millions."

 

as well as other intolerant acts that led to the deaths of millions of people that continue to this day in parts of the world

You don't say.

 

You are quick to call me ignorant, but I am not the one harping shrillingly that converting the Middle East will make the world a better place

Neither am I. Show me one sentence in which I have advocated "converting the Middle East."

 

you're a fool to believe so

You're a liar to claim that I do.

[Firestarter 0]

Point 2) Any country that would legally let someone get away with a religion-induced murder is downright loony.

Interestingly, this covers quite a few Moslem (of course) countries. Four years ago, the Pakistani Parliament refused to condemn so-called "honor killings," a term which includes such lovely traditional customs as the murder of women who have been raped. In the name of tolerance, such respect for similar traditional customs might well be demanded in a number European countries over the next several decades.

 

So, we agree that Moslem countries are, in general, "downright loony." I'd add "filthy," "disgusting," "barbaric," "vicious," and "ignorant" to that description, but that's just me.

 

Anyway, thanks for making my point.

[Insane Bump Machine 0]

There's a reason parties like Joerg Haider's in Germany and Pim Fortuyn's in the Netherlands have gained support.

Jörg Haider and 'his' party, the FPÖ, are not German, they are Austrian. Haider is also not in charge of his party anymore.

 

Just FYI.

[Firestarter 0]

There's a reason parties like Joerg Haider's in Germany and Pim Fortuyn's in the Netherlands have gained support.

Jörg Haider and 'his' party, the FPÖ, are not German, they are Austrian.

Shit. IBM is correct, of course; I messed up.

 

Haider is also not in charge of his party anymore

Huh. When did this happen? I vaguely remember reading something about this, but I can't remember where.

[Insane Bump Machine 0]

Huh. When did this happen? I vaguely remember reading something about this, but I can't remember where.

After his party lost huge in the last Austrian election a year ago (11/24/02), he retired from almost all his duties. He's still active in his own district 'Kärnten', but that's it.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm sure someone as learned as yourself would know about wonderful Christian ideas like the Inquisition

 

Ironically, that actually went against the teachings of Jesus.

 

, as well as other intolerant acts that led to the deaths of millions of people that continue to this day in parts of the world.

 

Where in the world are Christians causing the deaths of millions to this very day? I'm more than mildly curious. I can point to areas where Christians are getting slaughtered solely for their beliefs (see East, Middle)

 

You are quick to call me ignorant, but I am not the one harping shrillingly that converting the Middle East will make the world a better place. It won't, and you're a fool to believe so.

 

Islam is a bastardized religion that praises violence. No good can come from it.

 

Is Christianity a better solution? Well, it couldn't be WORSE. Heck, why not lt Buddhism get a run there?

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

The latest in a long, bloody tradition of honor killings.

 

Sorry, it's from FAUX.

 

Honor Killings Move West

 

Tuesday, November 11, 2003

 

By Amy Kellogg

 

 

 

LONDONG — In parts of some countries in the Middle East and South Asia, the penalty for a particularly shocking sort of murder is basically nothing, because honor killing is simply a tradition.

 

But it's a tradition some immigrants are taking with them to Britain, where police are on a mission to end the practice that they say has no honor.

 

In one case, a 16-year-old Kurdish girl, Heshu Yones, moved to England with her family who were refugees from Saddam Hussein's Iraq. She embraced the ways of her new home but was still proud to be a Kurd — she dressed up, wore makeup and fell in love.

 

For that, her father stabbed her 17 times with a kitchen knife last October and killed her. He recently pleaded guilty to the murder. The girl apparently planned to run away but decided not to because she thought it would ruin her family.

 

The killing apparently was sparked by the belief that she brought shame to the family. Women who want a divorce, reject an arranged marriage or have a boyfriend while living with their parents sometimes are killed because their actions are perceived as a dishonor to the family.

 

Heshu's case was a wake-up call for London's police. Dozens of similar cases have been identified within the past year, and police and citizens are now working to raise awareness of the issue.

 

"Many women, unfortunately, in our country had little rights so we don't know what our rights are when we come here," said Diani Nammi of the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Project.

 

Nammi said the men and women in her community who support honor killing are part of a minority, but changing their views may take a long time.

[Guest JMA]

Londong?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

you guys are talking about big, big, changes to the reigon

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

 

how will we bring Democracy to the Middle East without, at some point, coming into direct conflict with the Saudi goverment (and others)?

We won't.

I never said it was a bad thing.

[Guest BDC]

Flat-out wrong. Christianity (as taken from the New Testament) does not say that anyone who refuses to believe in Jesus must pay a higher tax, nor does it say that "unbelievers" must be subjugated or killed. Christianity does not say that it is a sin to allow an "infidel" to hold power, social, economic, political, military, or any other kind, over a "believer." Christianity does not demand the murder of "apostates." Christianity does not claim that spreading the political power of the church over the entire world, through force, is a religious duty. Christianity does not claim that agreements and treaties with "unbelievers" are immaterial, null and void, and may be broken without dishonour. Christianity doesn't promise paradise to people who commit suicide to murder others. No even remotely Christian preacher in the United States would say anything of the sort. Not even lunatics like Falwell, Robertson, and Buchanan. You know what does explicitly say every single one of these things? Islam.

 

To go further, think about this: in all the words you've heard out of Falwell (who is simply an inexcusable case) and the rest, where have they done anything like that. Robertson doesn't like three of the justices on the Supreme Court. So what does he do? Get some little friend of his to run into the homes with a bomb on their chest? He asked people watching his show to pray about it. Ooooooh.

 

Making that sort of comparison isn't just laughable, it's outright disgusting. White trash idiots that attend KKK rallies saying that Christianity means that only white people should live on the earth is about as close as we get to the Muslim suicide bomber.

[Guest JMA]

White trash idiots that attend KKK rallies saying that Christianity means that only white people should live on the earth is about as close as we get to the Muslim suicide bomber.

Actually, there are Christian terrorists. These are the people who blow up abortion clinics and such. Of course, there are FAR more Muslim terrorists. Which isn't a knock against Islam, just a fact.

[Guest Cerebus]

So, we agree that Moslem countries are, in general, "downright loony." I'd add "filthy," "disgusting," "barbaric," "vicious," and "ignorant" to that description, but that's just me.

 

Look, I'm not going to defend the vast majority of these Muslim countries (not Moslem CE...thats an improper spelling like Koran) but the way you categorize them is that they are all filled with nasty brutes...thats not really true. For the most part they are filled with decent, generous, friendly, and hard working people that have been propagandized to death by thier leaders for thier own ends. And I'm sure if they had anything close to an open society they would become far less radicalized...I mean look at what happens to thier kids when they come to the United States. Also, not all of the people in those countries are Muslim, many, like my grandparents who came from Palestine, are Christian.

[Guest BDC]

There are two spellings to Moslem and Koran. Arabic writings don't include vowels, so spelling varies.

[Firestarter 0]

not Moslem CE...thats an improper spelling like Koran

BDC already took care of this one.

 

the way you categorize them is that they are all filled with nasty brutes...thats not really true. For the most part they are filled with decent, generous, friendly, and hard working people

Have you taken a poll?

 

[they] have been propagandized to death by thier leaders for thier own ends

Quite true. And as a result, they are barbaric, vicious, ignorant, filthy, vile, and downright loony.

 

I'm sure if they had anything close to an open society they would become far less radicalized

I agree,

 

I mean look at what happens to thier kids when they come to the United States

but don't be too confident:

 

Soon after the terrorist attack, the New York Times chatted with students at the Al Noor School, a private Islamic academy in Brooklyn... the students stated point-blank that they would not fight for America against a fellow Muslim, denied that Osama bin Laden was behind the attacks, and criticized the United States for always opposing Muslims.

"Isn't it ironic," one student sneered, "that the interests of America are always against what Muslims want?"

Students from the Al Noor School were interviewed again a few weeks ago, this time by CBS' "60 Minutes." The students instantly and enthusiastically agreed with the proposition that a "Muslim who becomes a suicide bomber goes to Paradise for that action." "Definitely," one student said, calling a female suicide bomber "very brave."

"Do you believe they are martyrs? Holy martyrs?" Again, without hesitation, the students affirmed: "Yes" and "of course."

As to whether suicide bombers would go to Paradise, the students said they earnestly hoped so. "I mean, they're doing it for a good cause," one boy explained. "I pray that they go to Paradise," another said. Not only that, but one student said, "I think we'd all probably do the same."

- My Name is Adolf

 

not all of the people in those countries are Muslim

Most are.

[Guest Cerebus]

No Arabic DOES have vowels BDC, its just that some letters have no English equivalent. The Muslim holy book's first letter is basically the emphatic counterpart to the english "K" (which is in Arabic) and has no equivalent in English (it is a very deep sound from the back of the throat). Since "qu" usually represents a deeper "kah" sound in English than "ko" I feel it is the better representation of the letter. Another example is "Baghdad" since the letter that the "gh" represents has nothing close to a similar sound in English beyond "gh". Also most Arabic speakers prounounce the 'a' with a 'u' but this is the way the Birtish named it so it will stay i suppose.

[Guest Cerebus]

CE,

Different ways of spelling "muslim" I suppose...but I think the American spelling is closer imo (since the British looks like its pronounced "Mohs-lim" which is totally wrong). And no I havn't taken a poll or anything like that but its a feeling I have from knowing so many in my life. Would you like to take a poll of how many people in the US are decent, generous, friendly, and hard working people? You couldn't but I have the same thing to say about Americans as well. While I know you can never be sure the radicalization of parents is diluted when the new generation grows up in the US, if you ever speak with a lot of 2nd generation immigrants (i.e. the children of immigrants) you'll see that many of the old identities are left behind...whether thats a good thing or not i'll leave you to decide but it does mean that the chances of radicalization are lower.

[Guest BDC]

There are multiple spellings of Arabic words, okay? That's enough. Qu'ran, Moslim, Koran, Muslim, whatever. That's not the real point.

 

The fact of the matter is, you're getting people raised in societies that are glorifying death and brutality (Palestinians to fight Israelis, Israelis because they're constantly under attack) and in turn, you're pretty much just getting an entire generation raised on bloodshed.

 

Marney is pretty much correct. If the Palestinian leaders didn't encourage this kind of barbarism, then there would be no need for the Israelis to do what they're doing but under current circumstances, all hell can break loose every friggin' day.

[Guest Cerebus]

Did I say otherwise? My mom is Palestinian and she's certainly not radicalized in any sense of the word because she was born and raised in the US not Bethlehem. Same with me, so I don't completely disagree with Marney but I think there should be more of a difference made between the truly radical (the suicide bombers), the majority who have been swayed by the total bombardment of government propaganda (most of the everyone else), and the people who refuse and resist (usually dissidents who are tortured, killed, and jailed) and we should recognize that people in the 2nd group are good people controlled by corrupt evil regimes...WHICH ANY SOCIETY IS SUSEPTIABLE TO! It doesn't matter if its religious, political, or social corruption but any society can be taken over by these types of regimes not just ones with muslim populations.

[Firestarter 0]

people in the 2nd group are good people controlled by corrupt evil regimes...WHICH ANY SOCIETY IS SUSEPTIABLE TO!

Some more so than others. It's a question of degree. I'm not saying that nothing of the sort can ever happen here, but with its constitutional basis, freedom of speech, transparent procedures, accountable institutions, and finely tuned system of checks and balances, the US is unarguably far less susceptible to corruption, injustice, and evil than authoritarian regimes such as Communist China, Stalinist Russia, or Moslem Saudi Arabia.

 

It doesn't matter if its religious, political, or social corruption but any society can be taken over by these types of regimes not just ones with muslim populations.

But throughout history, religious regimes have caused great suffering. It's the nature of revelation - how can anyone dissent from the word of God? Once you're convinced that you're privy to divine truth, argument is futile and compromise meaningless. Since Moslem countries usually enforce revelatory laws (the Shariah &c), and since the Koran's rules reach into practically every aspect of people's lives and social structure, Moslem countries inevitably tend towards totalitarianism and repression. And that leads to corruption, injustice, and evil.

 

QED

[Guest BDC]

Better yet, since the Sunni view is that the Koran is to be view literally and not interpreted... funfunfun.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

*whistle*

 

Cancer Marney has been docked 5 points for using Ann Coulter as a source. (O'Reilly = -3, Coulter = -5, Savage = -7)

 

Cerebus316 fumbles, attempted distraction over spelling. The ball is moved back 10 yards.

 

Resume!

 

 

I believe the problem with Marney's comments (and the appearant beliefs of this administration) is the idea that you can change the culture of the entire Middle East region by using guns to keep out the unwanted elements. I know this is a risky comparison, but the Taliban did much the same thing, destroying museums and demolishing national treasures because they were considered an unwanted element in their rule.

 

No nation on Earth will part with it's culture easily. Although it can be removed from everyday life, it cannot be totally forgotten. The best possible scenario is that Middle East governments stop sponsoring Islamic traditions (such as the honor killings discussed above) but that isn't going to happen without making quite a few enemies out of other nations, and I'm not just talking about the middle east here.

 

Afghanistan, alright. Iraq, it'll squeak by. But messing around with too many countries will basically send a message that the United States is willing to take over any country it simply doesn't like, and then we've got problems.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Afghanistan, alright. Iraq, it'll squeak by. But messing around with too many countries will basically send a message that the United States is willing to take over any country it simply doesn't like, and then we've got problems.

We have to take that chance sometimes. It may not sit well with other nations, but if a nation is believed to be a threat to U.S. interest, action should be taken before it's too late.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

We have to take that chance sometimes. It may not sit well with other nations, but if a nation is believed to be a threat to U.S. interest, action should be taken before it's too late.

Well, say what you want about the evidence in Iraq, I think it will eventually blow over. However, there ARE other ways to stick it to the problem without using the military. Diplomacy and especially Economics are far too often looked over anymore.

[Vern Gagne 0]

We are using other methods besides force. Look at North Korea, and Iran has examples. So far i'd say it's been last resort in Iraq, and Afghanistan.

[Firestarter 0]

Diplomacy and especially Economics are far too often looked over anymore.

You mean after oh say the last 12 years or so? Hilarious.