Reason why Luger wrestled

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I thinik determining who is a "main eventer" in TNA is very interesting. I look at it like this - WWE has weekly TV and house shows that build to their major shows (ppvs once a month). The performers in the final match or what that show is built around (often McMahons eventhough they're not in the final match) are the main eventers. TNA doesn't really have a big show (ppv). They basically have a weekly TV show. The guys in the last match on RAW and Smackdown aren't always necessarily main eventers. You can't have the same couple of guys in that last match every week. When I look at TNA, I believe the main eventers are the guys that the MAJOR storylines are build around. Eventhough Raven is rarely in the last match, I consider him a main eventer there because he has been the focus of important storylines in TNA. I would not consider Douglas a main eventer, nor Gilberti. I'd go with Styles, Jarrett, Raven, I guess Sting (when he's there), Dusty Rhodes (when he's there), and that's about it right now. Luger coming in for 1 week and wrestling in the last match doesn't make him a main eventer in my mind as he really has no storyline of any importance.

[2GOLD 0]

Ok, so what's the problem?

Sting wanted to give a friend of his who is VERY down right now, a chance and to give him a chance he placed his job and reputation on the line with TNA.

 

Sting had to know TNA could say no and he could be without the job but he did it cause he realized Luger needed the chance. Was Luger complete crap? More than likely, but what did you expect from a guy who hasn't exactly worked a match in god knows how long.

 

I'm sure Sting knew after the match he was going to get heat for this move and what's really sad about this is if Luger had been any good, these same people would claim THEY brought in Luger and deserve all the credit. But since Luger sucked, they can officially place all of it on Sting and I doubt Sting cares they do.

 

Half the damn people on the planet have helped a friend out they weren't sure of and it blew up in their face. Sting wanted to give his friend a second chance he felt he needed and Lex didn't come through. At least he tried.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

1. I was for bringing Luger in.

 

2. I knew he would look like crap, and he did.

 

3. Sting putting his job and reputation on the line would be him asking TNA to bring in Luger. Sting refusing to work if they didn't bring in Luger is bush league and unprofessional, not just in wrestling but in the real world. What would happen if you told your boss you weren't coming to work tomorrow if he didn't hire your best friend?

[Jack_Bauer 0]

I guess the question would be, how far would you go to help a friend in need ?

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Good question. I'd go farther for a friend who didn't live a self destructive life and do it to themself, but that's me.

 

I worked at a supermarket for the 4 years I was at college. I never recommended anyone for a job b/c it was MY reputation on the line if that person f'ed up. I can't tell you how many countless times people got people jobs, the person would screw up and that other person then looks like a jack ass.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Sting doesn't need to be professional after all he's done in BIG TIME promotions. If they won't give his friend a job as a friendly suggestion then that sucks for TNA if Sting refuses to wrestle.

 

TNA needs Sting. Sting doesn't need TNA.

[Guest MikeSC]

Sting doesn't need to be professional after all he's done in BIG TIME promotions. If they won't give his friend a job as a friendly suggestion then that sucks for TNA if Sting refuses to wrestle.

 

TNA needs Sting. Sting doesn't need TNA.

TNA NEEDS Sting?

 

I guess he's popping big buyrates --- nope, no he's not.

 

I'm sure he's helping them sell out their --- nope, not doing that, either.

-=Mike

...He's probably churning out classics --- nope, not that, either.

[Guest MikeSC]

Ok, so what's the problem?

Sting wanted to give a friend of his who is VERY down right now, a chance and to give him a chance he placed his job and reputation on the line with TNA.

 

Sting had to know TNA could say no and he could be without the job but he did it cause he realized Luger needed the chance. Was Luger complete crap? More than likely, but what did you expect from a guy who hasn't exactly worked a match in god knows how long.

 

I'm sure Sting knew after the match he was going to get heat for this move and what's really sad about this is if Luger had been any good, these same people would claim THEY brought in Luger and deserve all the credit. But since Luger sucked, they can officially place all of it on Sting and I doubt Sting cares they do.

 

Half the damn people on the planet have helped a friend out they weren't sure of and it blew up in their face. Sting wanted to give his friend a second chance he felt he needed and Lex didn't come through. At least he tried.

We're not discussing Sting asking "Hey, why don't we give Liger a shot?"

 

We're discussing Sting saying "If he doesn't work, I don't work".

 

Of course, TNA was asinine enough to CAVE IN. Heck, let Sting not work. With his lazy ringwork, how would you tell the difference?

-=Mike

...Who wonders why Rock catches so much heat for using a crappy Sharpshooter, but Sting's Scorpion, which looks LESS painful than Rock's WORST Sharpshooter, isn't a source of ridicule.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Sting doesn't need to be professional after all he's done in BIG TIME promotions.

What do you do for a living? Or are you still in high school or soemthing? I ask because EVERYONE in life should ALWAYS BE PROFESSIONAL. He's worked for big time companies so he can be a Dick? What the hell philosophy is that to go through your life with. So if someone leaves their wallet out I can take it because they were dumb enough to leave it out? There's right and wrong in the world, and feeling you're a big enough "star" that you can act like a jerk is absurd. I'll say it again and again and again:

 

Sting saying, "hey, what do you guys think about Lex Luger?" is TOTALLY different than saying "Oh, remember how we agreed to next week and you guys advertised me? Well I'm no-showing unless you bring in Lex Luger, who by the way is having trouble with the law right now."

[2GOLD 0]

TNA could have said no.

It was Sting playing hardball like most people with a high paying job. They didn't want to bring in Luger then they say no and find out what Sting does.

 

Odds are Sting would have worked the show anyway but he would have been able to tell Luger he did everything he could but it just wasn't happening.

 

TNA caved, that's the fault of TNA.

 

And before you even ask, no I am not in high school. I graduated college a few years ago and I still see what this was. It was Sting playing hardball to give his friend a chance. TNA says no and odds are Sting works the damn show anyway cause he agreed too. This was TNA caving in and if you ask me, TNA WANTED Luger (they brought in Duggan and Steiner for crap sake) and when he sucked they had someone to blame.

[Guest MikeSC]

TNA could have said no.

It was Sting playing hardball like most people with a high paying job. They didn't want to bring in Luger then they say no and find out what Sting does.

 

Odds are Sting would have worked the show anyway but he would have been able to tell Luger he did everything he could but it just wasn't happening.

 

TNA caved, that's the fault of TNA.

 

And before you even ask, no I am not in high school. I graduated college a few years ago and I still see what this was. It was Sting playing hardball to give his friend a chance. TNA says no and odds are Sting works the damn show anyway cause he agreed too. This was TNA caving in and if you ask me, TNA WANTED Luger (they brought in Duggan and Steiner for crap sake) and when he sucked they had someone to blame.

 

I'm not arguing that TNA was idiotic to cave in. Sting is useless anyway.

 

Doesn't make Sting less of a jerk for doing it.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

Finally got my tape (damn college and no PPV!) I was a strong defender of TNA for bringing in Luger who was down on his luck getting another chance.

-First of all the fact that Sting pushed for it and even made a condition should be no suprise. They have been best friends even through hard times forever. I'm not gonna fault Sting for being a good friend. No one should be down on Sting, he is the biggest star bar none TNA has, and he put over Styles huge on Wednesday.

-That said, I can not be happy with Luger's performence. I thought he would be humbled. I thought he would be out to prove people wrong, but I couldn't believe he wouldn't let Styles get one offensive move on him, or take any bumps for him, and would only be pinned by him after several bat shots and a roll up. The only way this would be good is if Luger had announced a 1 on 1 challenge next week and decisively put over Styles. I remember someone suggested a long term storyline for Luger where he consistently loses and starts to build babyface sympathy as the old star looking to recapture glory and eventually gets a big win. If Luger could have changed his attitude then it would have been a cool stoyline. Fuck him. TNA obviously did not really want him and it doesn't look like he'll be back. All muscles, no brains...

-

[Styles 0]

Sting saying, "hey, what do you guys think about Lex Luger?" is TOTALLY different than saying "Oh, remember how we agreed to next week and you guys advertised me? Well I'm no-showing unless you bring in Lex Luger, who by the way is having trouble with the law right now."

I don't think it was like that at all. I'm positive it went like this:

TNA: Sting, can you work a couple shows for us?

Sting: Only if you bring in Luger the second week.

TNA: Fine.

 

Im positive he didn't blackmail. Im sure it was a condition to him coming in though.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

That's what I'm thinking. I hardly think Sting was holding them at gunpoint. He would have to work the dates regardless if they brought in Luger or not.

 

As far as Sting having to be professional in TNA....I think the guy should be cut some slack for putting up with having to feud with Vampiro/Demon/Great Puta, having to put up with Hogan and Flair's bullshit for so long, and even putting over Meng. TNA is bush league and they nor can anyone expect him to give them the same respect he gave WCW. He's also helping out his best friend which is far more important to him than WWE's distant competition.

 

Add to that that he has to work those dates anyway and it was probably agreed to before his first appearance.

 

Of course Luger's another one of those smark hated wrestlers so he didn't get the same treatment as Sanders until Sanders got the boot. No one cared that Sanders was employed because of the fact that he was friends with Disqo and Russo. He's said time and time again that he loves the business as much as Goldberg and he's as entertaining on the mic as butter dripping down your forehead.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Sting doesn't need to be professional after all he's done in BIG TIME promotions. If they won't give his friend a job as a friendly suggestion then that sucks for TNA if Sting refuses to wrestle.

 

TNA needs Sting. Sting doesn't need TNA.

TNA NEEDS Sting?

 

I guess he's popping big buyrates --- nope, no he's not.

 

I'm sure he's helping them sell out their --- nope, not doing that, either.

-=Mike

...He's probably churning out classics --- nope, not that, either.

Yaha, OWNED!

 

Well, OTP, I guess butter dripping down your forehead must be the equivalent of a World Series at he bottom of the 9th inning when the two teams are tied and there are 2 outs, because Sanders is pretty fucking good on the stick. Shit in the ring, but solid on the mic.

 

See, Sanders? Charisma, mic skills, sells pretty good. Gilberti? Charisma, mic skills, is an average wrestler. Luger? Little charisma, no mic skills, is worse than Nathan Jones on an off-day in the ring.

 

TNA doesn't need Sting. They don't need anybody that had name value 5 years ago, and don't anymore. They don't need anybody but younger wrestlers that have decent looks and can GO in the ring, hold their own on the mic, and are willing to get better and better with the promotion. They need to innovate and revolutionize, not do the things that barely worked 10 years ago with the same guys who can barely go anymore.

 

So come up with something else we can all disprove. It's fun.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Well, OTP, I guess butter dripping down your forehead must be the equivalent of a World Series at he bottom of the 9th inning when the two teams are tied and there are 2 outs, because Sanders is pretty fucking good on the stick. Shit in the ring, but solid on the mic.

 

See, Sanders? Charisma, mic skills, sells pretty good. Gilberti? Charisma, mic skills, is an average wrestler. Luger? Little charisma, no mic skills, is worse than Nathan Jones on an off-day in the ring.

 

TNA doesn't need Sting. They don't need anybody that had name value 5 years ago, and don't anymore. They don't need anybody but younger wrestlers that have decent looks and can GO in the ring, hold their own on the mic, and are willing to get better and better with the promotion. They need to innovate and revolutionize, not do the things that barely worked 10 years ago with the same guys who can barely go anymore.

 

So come up with something else we can all disprove. It's fun.

Solid on the mic? More like soiled undies on the mic. All he can do is act like an even less believable jackass than Randy Orton. What he gets praised for are his promos against Cat and Flair. Standing there and acting like a dweeb while Flair and Miller are near you isn't that hard to do.

 

As far as Luger having no charisma or mic skills? I'll admit that. If it was before this whole drug thing I'd bring him in as well. Luger had a tremendous presence as a face. He got over from standing there. The crowds were hot for his matches with Roadblock. I personally don't think he's good myself right now but I was just trying to point out that other wrestlers who aren't good either got jobs because of their friends.

 

They need young wrestlers that have decent looks, can go in the ring, hold their own on the mic, and are willing to get better? Well they have about two, AJ Styles and Daniels. They'd have two more if Sting and Jarrett were still young. They have or had Killings and D'Lo but obviously they weren't important enough. They needed to make room for Shane Douglas. You can't expect to compete with WWE with their ex midcarders and two no names and then a fed full of indy scene overhyped workers.

 

I haven't heard reports in a while but it seems like TNA is relying moreso on Panda to support them then being able to support themselves. Before TNA becomes even known to the regular fans on a large basis it has to establish itself. It has to grab the current wrestling fans and entice them. They aren't going to entice them with a slew of people they don't know or guys they might remember from Sunday Night Heat.

 

Once you establish your company you can start phasing out the favorites and putting in new guys. Wrestling fans know Sting. They don't know of Chris Sabin. ECW tried to become big using people no one knew. Where is it now?

 

They need to innovate and revolutionize, not do the things that barely worked 10 years ago with the same guys who can barely go anymore.

Doing spotfests with a catchy name for the division is revolutionary? You can't revolutionize with spotfests and thankfully TNA's trying to phase that out of their X division.

 

Wrestling's been through the carny stage, the larger than life characters stage, the goofy characters stage, the attitude era, and the only way I could see them revolutionizing is if they possibly go the route of MMA which is gaining support. They wouldn't need to do MMA but they could try and make it seems like the matches are legit and just show people beating the crap out of each other with no theatrics.

[Guest MikeSC]

Solid on the mic? More like soiled undies on the mic. All he can do is act like an even less believable jackass than Randy Orton. What he gets praised for are his promos against Cat and Flair. Standing there and acting like a dweeb while Flair and Miller are near you isn't that hard to do.

 

Honestly, I never got the Sanders love --- but I'd give HIM a shot over a guy who has proven, for about 5 years now, that he doesn't have a good match left in him. His mic work isn't great --- but it's better than Sting's (and, it goes without saying (though I'm saying in regardless), better than Luger's).

 

As far as Luger having no charisma or mic skills? I'll admit that. If it was before this whole drug thing I'd bring him in as well. Luger had a tremendous presence as a face.

 

Yet without a Flair to play off of, crowds never seemed to flock to see him. Odd.

 

He got over from standing there. The crowds were hot for his matches with Roadblock.

 

Did you see these matches? I can't claim to have ever known or heard of one --- so how you can attest to the crowds being "hot" is questionable.

 

I personally don't think he's good myself right now but I was just trying to point out that other wrestlers who aren't good either got jobs because of their friends.

 

No doubt. Nash got his job due to HHH. If HHH refused to work unless they signed Nash, it'd be comparable.

 

They need young wrestlers that have decent looks, can go in the ring, hold their own on the mic, and are willing to get better? Well they have about two, AJ Styles and Daniels. They'd have two more if Sting and Jarrett were still young. They have or had Killings and D'Lo but obviously they weren't important enough. They needed to make room for Shane Douglas. You can't expect to compete with WWE with their ex midcarders and two no names and then a fed full of indy scene overhyped workers.

 

So, you FIX this by signing guys who have no real history of drawing (Sting, Luger, and Douglas --- heck, add Jarrett to that list)?

 

Why the heck would they need to make room for Shane? Can't they find another bloated loudmouth? I'm sure Mark Madden will work cheap.

 

I haven't heard reports in a while but it seems like TNA is relying moreso on Panda to support them then being able to support themselves. Before TNA becomes even known to the regular fans on a large basis it has to establish itself. It has to grab the current wrestling fans and entice them. They aren't going to entice them with a slew of people they don't know or guys they might remember from Sunday Night Heat.

 

So, they sign guys fans haven't seen in a year or so and who they didn't WANT to see for several years?

 

That's a plan?

 

Once you establish your company you can start phasing out the favorites and putting in new guys. Wrestling fans know Sting. They don't know of Chris Sabin.

 

Seeing as how Sting hasn't really popped buyrates, attendance, or anything --- the fans don't care about Sting.

 

ECW tried to become big using people no one knew. Where is it now?

 

WCW tried to survive by using over-the-hill guys who couldn't draw flies any longer.

 

What happened to them?

 

They need to innovate and revolutionize, not do the things that barely worked 10 years ago with the same guys who can barely go anymore.

Doing spotfests with a catchy name for the division is revolutionary? You can't revolutionize with spotfests and thankfully TNA's trying to phase that out of their X division.

 

Spotfests CAN'T reviolutionize, honestly. They are an attraction --- they are not the draw.

 

But doing horrible main events week after week is a WORSE idea.

-=Mike

[Guest JacK]

Of course Luger's another one of those smark hated wrestlers so he didn't get the same treatment as Sanders until Sanders got the boot. No one cared that Sanders was employed because of the fact that he was friends with Disqo and Russo. He's said time and time again that he loves the business as much as Goldberg and he's as entertaining on the mic as butter dripping down your forehead.

That's as entertaining as Sanders's mike work?

 

*rushes off to find the butter*

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Honestly, I never got the Sanders love --- but I'd give HIM a shot over a guy who has proven, for about 5 years now, that he doesn't have a good match left in him. His mic work isn't great --- but it's better than Sting's (and, it goes without saying (though I'm saying in regardless), better than Luger's).

Sanders hasn't proved he has a good match in him and he hasn't been wrestling in the mainstream as long as Sting who has had a ton of matches. I'd rather have a guy who I know used to be able to go than someone who I know could never go.

 

Yet without a Flair to play off of, crowds never seemed to flock to see him. Odd.

Odder still how there were points when he was really over with no Flair involvement. Summer of 1993 vs. Yokozuna. When he was partnered with Sting. All of his matches against the nWo and big jobbers like Roadblock. If you haven't, watch Starrcade 1996. The crowd is dead for the whole thing until Luger/Giant when Luger wakes them all up. I'll honesty say I haven't done any buyrate research but I know Luger was incredibly over at times and that can't be denied.

 

Did you see these matches? I can't claim to have ever known or heard of one --- so how you can attest to the crowds being "hot" is questionable.

I saw both of his matches against Roadblock in which the crowd was on fire. Face Lex Luger played the hero/face in peril extremely well. I also find it funny that you say you've never heard of them so it's questionable as to whether it's true. Remember folks, if TheMikeSC hasn't seen it, it didn't exist.

 

No doubt. Nash got his job due to HHH. If HHH refused to work unless they signed Nash, it'd be comparable.

HHH would be found in breach of contract though. I'm almost positive that it was agreed upon before the dates because Sting HAD to work those four appearances.

 

So, you FIX this by signing guys who have no real history of drawing (Sting, Luger, and Douglas --- heck, add Jarrett to that list)?

 

Why the heck would they need to make room for Shane? Can't they find another bloated loudmouth? I'm sure Mark Madden will work cheap.

The comment about Douglas was sarcasm. No you don't fix it by that but honestly you don't fix it by alienating workers who the general wrestling crowds know in case it might interest them either. It helps nothing if the crowds don't pay to see them but sometimes nostalgia acts garner people's interests faster than someone they can't recognize.

 

So, they sign guys fans haven't seen in a year or so and who they didn't WANT to see for several years?

 

That's a plan?

You atleast TRY and see if name value works. I heard that the buyrates went up in April because of Raven. You know it wasn't because Raven can wrestle.

 

Seeing as how Sting hasn't really popped buyrates, attendance, or anything --- the fans don't care about Sting.

The only time I ever heard of any of TNA's buyrates was in the Raven period. Is there anywhere that archives TNA's buyrates?

 

WCW tried to survive by using over-the-hill guys who couldn't draw flies any longer.

That much is known. At the same time however, ECW did what some people want TNA to do. I say try and get some people with name value in then entertain them with the other guys too.

[Guest MikeSC]

Honestly, I never got the Sanders love --- but I'd give HIM a shot over a guy who has proven, for about 5 years now, that he doesn't have a good match left in him. His mic work isn't great --- but it's better than Sting's (and, it goes without saying (though I'm saying in regardless), better than Luger's).

Sanders hasn't proved he has a good match in him and he hasn't been wrestling in the mainstream as long as Sting who has had a ton of matches. I'd rather have a guy who I know used to be able to go than someone who I know could never go.

 

So DO give a chance to a guy who has sucked for TONS of matches --- but DON'T give a chance who HASN'T sucked for TONS of matches?

 

Yet without a Flair to play off of, crowds never seemed to flock to see him. Odd.

Odder still how there were points when he was really over with no Flair involvement. Summer of 1993 vs. Yokozuna.

 

Amazingly enough, that is one of those programs where the lack of Luger being over the most laughed about.

 

Hint: If Luger actually WAS over, he would've won the World Title at SSlam. But, the lack of crowds at house shows and lack of reaction when Lex would "steal" the World Title and be called "World Champion" killed it.

 

When he was partnered with Sting.

 

No crowds. No buyrates. No ratings.

 

All of his matches against the nWo and big jobbers like Roadblock.

 

EVERYONE drew well with the nWo at first. And the Roadblock match seems like a myth, to be honest.

 

If you haven't, watch Starrcade 1996. The crowd is dead for the whole thing until Luger/Giant when Luger wakes them all up.

 

Crowd was hot for the entire show. I don't know which SC '96 you watched.

 

I'll honesty say I haven't done any buyrate research but I know Luger was incredibly over at times and that can't be denied.

 

Funny, bookers and promoters wouldn't agree.

 

Did you see these matches? I can't claim to have ever known or heard of one --- so how you can attest to the crowds being "hot" is questionable.

I saw both of his matches against Roadblock in which the crowd was on fire. Face Lex Luger played the hero/face in peril extremely well.

 

Of course, the ATTENDANCE at these shows was ... what?

 

I also find it funny that you say you've never heard of them so it's questionable as to whether it's true. Remember folks, if TheMikeSC hasn't seen it, it didn't exist.

 

I doubt anybody here --- well, outside of you --- heard of these heat machines that WAS the Luger v Roadblock series.

 

But, hey, if you say it was a hot crowd, so be it.

 

Funny that the program didn't make it to TV or PPV --- seeing as how it drew such impressive heat and all.

 

No doubt. Nash got his job due to HHH. If HHH refused to work unless they signed Nash, it'd be comparable.

HHH would be found in breach of contract though. I'm almost positive that it was agreed upon before the dates because Sting HAD to work those four appearances.

 

Reading the story, it doesn't appear that YOUR version is quite the way it happens.

 

So, you FIX this by signing guys who have no real history of drawing (Sting, Luger, and Douglas --- heck, add Jarrett to that list)?

 

Why the heck would they need to make room for Shane? Can't they find another bloated loudmouth? I'm sure Mark Madden will work cheap.

The comment about Douglas was sarcasm. No you don't fix it by that but honestly you don't fix it by alienating workers who the general wrestling crowds know in case it might interest them either.

 

Seeing as how Sting hasn't draw ANYBODY since 1998, your point is beyond moot.

 

It helps nothing if the crowds don't pay to see them but sometimes nostalgia acts garner people's interests faster than someone they can't recognize.

 

And SOMEBODY missed Luger?

 

Who is this person?

 

So, they sign guys fans haven't seen in a year or so and who they didn't WANT to see for several years?

 

That's a plan?

You atleast TRY and see if name value works. I heard that the buyrates went up in April because of Raven. You know it wasn't because Raven can wrestle.

 

Raven, at his most drugged out, could work CIRCLES around Sting and Luger. And he can book decently as well. AND he can work the mic.

 

Seeing as how Sting hasn't really popped buyrates, attendance, or anything --- the fans don't care about Sting.

The only time I ever heard of any of TNA's buyrates was in the Raven period. Is there anywhere that archives TNA's buyrates?

 

As a rule, if the buyrates WERE popped --- it would've been mentioned by, well, TNA themselves. But, it wasn't --- and it hasn't.

 

WCW tried to survive by using over-the-hill guys who couldn't draw flies any longer.

That much is known. At the same time however, ECW did what some people want TNA to do. I say try and get some people with name value in then entertain them with the other guys too.

 

So, if the guys don't draw and haven't for years (if ever) --- how EXACTLY do they have "name value"?

-=Mike

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Thank you, Mike, for calmly saying what I would have spouted off laced with profanity about Raven being a good worker.

 

Raven's had more EMOTIONAL matches than anybody else in TNA. He's also one of the best mic workers EVER, and is a very good booker. So, again...tell me Raven can't work.

 

Re: ECW's bankruptcy

ECW went out of business due to Paul having little knowledge of the BUSINESS aspects of running a promotion. He tried to go too far too soon, and as a result was in debt up to his receding hairline. ECW's demise had little to do with the actual product, and more to do with Paul being good as a booker and awful as a corporate guy.

[Guest MikeSC]

Thank you, Mike, for calmly saying what I would have spouted off laced with profanity about Raven being a good worker.

 

Raven's had more EMOTIONAL matches than anybody else in TNA. He's also one of the best mic workers EVER, and is a very good booker. So, again...tell me Raven can't work.

Honestly, I wasn't a big believer in him --- until I saw his classic with Saturn at FB '98. Then I realized that I couldn't think of the last BAD Raven match (his squash US Title loss doesn't really count) and realized that it couldn't be ALL carry jobs. So, it dawned on me that Raven COULD work --- though I still am not fond of his ECW work. His WWE and WCW work was rather good and showed his abilities.

-=Mike

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Forget it I won't argue about this anymore. I shouldn't even have mentioned Raven as now all of the marks for his cut and paste booking and garbage matches will eat me alive.

 

As far as Sting, I don't know what the buyrates have been for TNA's shows. No one's archived them so I can't do any research.

 

As far as Luger never having any heat, I won't argue with you about that. I've seen you say RVD has no heat before. It seems like you cover your ears and shout. In response to you thinking I'm lying about the two matches Luger had with some jobber it wasn't a program. It was in the string of matches where people would go nuts for him racking bigger guys ala Brock F5'ing Big Show in November 02.

[Guest MikeSC]

Forget it I won't argue about this anymore. I shouldn't even have mentioned Raven as now all of the marks for his cut and paste booking and garbage matches will eat me alive.

 

Ah, now I'm a Raven mark. You know, I AVOIDED calling you a JJ lemming --- though it seems to be fitting.

 

As far as Sting, I don't know what the buyrates have been for TNA's shows. No one's archived them so I can't do any research.

 

Again, if they DID good numbers, THEY would mention it. THEY would hype it.

 

As far as Luger never having any heat, I won't argue with you about that. I've seen you say RVD has no heat before.

 

Fans tend to sit on their hands for most of his matches, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

It seems like you cover your ears and shout.

 

With RVD? Um, it's called watching a match and not jerking off the entire time.

 

In response to you thinking I'm lying about the two matches Luger had with some jobber it wasn't a program.

 

Amazingly enough, when something GETS pops, they tend to use it in situation where it might make money. I'm not saying your lying per se, but ...

 

It was in the string of matches where people would go nuts for him racking bigger guys ala Brock F5'ing Big Show in November 02.

 

Hmm, and this "string" happened when, exactly?

-=Mike

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

1. I think Mike Sanders is funny on the mic

 

2. Raven can't carry anyone...but he's so smart about how a match should be layed out that he puts his opponent in the position of REALLY having to blow it to have a bad match. Vampiro blew it...and it sucked. Styles used it and it rocked.

 

3. Everytime Mike says RVD doesn't get a reaction when you can clearly see and hear that he does (and YES that means during the match too) I wonder why he keeps going out on that limb and sawing it from the tree when he obviously wants to have his other (IE: Valid) opinions heard.

 

4. I guess TNA is really desperate to keep Sting around. On one hand...I get it (he's the biggest name that hasn't worked for Vince...and therefore not a "WWE reject") On the other...the next interesting thing they do with Sting will be the first in...oh...6 years?

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Ah, now I'm a Raven mark. You know, I AVOIDED calling you a JJ lemming --- though it seems to be fitting.

Why would you call me a JJ lemming? I wasn't calling you a Raven mark.

 

Again, if they DID good numbers, THEY would mention it. THEY would hype it.

Just like WWE talks about their buyrates even during the attitude era and as late as Invasion?

 

Fans tend to sit on their hands for most of his matches, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Which matches would these be? I can only remember two matches where the crowd was absolutely dead and that was the three way with Chrestholdian and Chris Jericho and the match with Triple H.

 

With RVD? Um, it's called watching a match and not jerking off the entire time.

Who said anything about jerking off during an RVD match? I was just saying that you deny RVD is really over with the crowd.

 

Amazingly enough, when something GETS pops, they tend to use it in situation where it might make money. I'm not saying your lying per se, but ...

The pop was for Luger not the match or for the jobber and they did make a program out of Luger racking huge guys.

 

Hmm, and this "string" happened when, exactly?

1996. Obviously you don't remember the hype for Luger/Giant. You obviously didn't watch or remember any of the shows either.

[Guest MikeSC]

Again, if they DID good numbers, THEY would mention it. THEY would hype it.

Just like WWE talks about their buyrates even during the attitude era and as late as Invasion?

 

"(blank) PPV sold out in 45 minutes" was said.

 

"Highest rated show on cable TV" sounds familiar.

 

Fans tend to sit on their hands for most of his matches, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Which matches would these be? I can only remember two matches where the crowd was absolutely dead and that was the three way with Chrestholdian and Chris Jericho and the match with Triple H.

 

v Flair at NM was DEAD. v Benoit at SSlam hardly had a big reaction. ANY of his tag work with Kane was dead. His match with Kane at SSlam was mute.

 

With RVD? Um, it's called watching a match and not jerking off the entire time.

Who said anything about jerking off during an RVD match? I was just saying that you deny RVD is really over with the crowd.

 

He's NOT. Crowds are no better with him on the show. Buyrates are no better. Ratings are no better. Numbers are hard to disprove.

 

He appeals to the ECW mutants. Always has.

 

Amazingly enough, when something GETS pops, they tend to use it in situation where it might make money. I'm not saying your lying per se, but ...

The pop was for Luger not the match or for the jobber and they did make a program out of Luger racking huge guys.

 

Seeing as how I have an obscenely large collection of WWF TV from that era, they managed to avoid having this heat formula on TV.

 

OR PPV.

 

Strange.

 

Hmm, and this "string" happened when, exactly?

1996. Obviously you don't remember the hype for Luger/Giant. You obviously didn't watch or remember any of the shows either.

 

Umm, the biggest Luger v Giant match from 1996 was at GAB --- and it was not CLOSE to being the most hyped match on the show. It was almost an afterthought.

-=Mike

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Oh no, OTP, some people recognize that Raven is one of the best workers of all-time when it comes to making a match interesting! They recognized that he books what works! They recognized that, since he realizes he's not a great WRESTLER, he uses weapons as a part of the overall match, and not just focuses on them! DAMN THEM!!

 

But yeah, saying RVD has no heat is stupid. He has heat, but it's just not to the level of where it was, say, 2 years ago.

[Michrome 0]

Sting's appearance did pop a bigger buyrate, at least the first time he came. However, it went back down to prior levels soon after, seeing as they failed to capitalize on his appearance with a strong show.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Seeing as how I have an obscenely large collection of WWF TV from that era, they managed to avoid having this heat formula on TV.

a.)He didn't have the Rack until atleast 1995 almost when he left if not after

b.)It wasn't on WWF TV

 

Umm, the biggest Luger v Giant match from 1996 was at GAB --- and it was not CLOSE to being the most hyped match on the show. It was almost an afterthought.

-=Mike

 

Actually it was at Starrcade 1996 as it was the match that woke the crowd up, put Luger over, and wasn't treated like an afterthought.