Hate to say I told you so...

[Use Your Illusion 0]

If it wasn't for Shawn Michaels, that RAW Tag contest would of blown. Shawn's still got it, and good to see he's out there busting ass and reassuring long time HBK marks, such as myself, of his worth.

 

I loved the Buried Alive match, sure it was crap 'wrestling' wise, but Taker & Kane at WMXX will add to the nostalgia factor (not to mention the return of The Undertaker).

 

Great PPV all up, and hey - THEY BOOKED GOLDBERG THE RIGHT WAY.

 

I'm as shocked as you.

 

UYI

[tpww7 0]

I'm tired now so I'll respond in the morning but obviously you dont watch any good indies to think buildup and stories are done all in one show. And you made an intellegent argument? Care to point one out?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Michrome, what is RoH doing...1-2 shows a month now?

 

If you took all the GOOD MATCHES/ANGLES from a month's worth of Smackdown/Velocity/Raw, and a few house shows, plus the GOOD from the PPVs....WWE blows RoH away at every level.

 

There's no comparison, so don't act like the talent is so much better in RoH.

 

Sure, WWE is toned down during the week...maybe it's cause they work 4 times a week. Maybe it's because they have a true TV deal. Maybe they have to travel all over the world, wrestling 4 times a week....and not just once a month doing "super high spot moonsaults" from a cage or "60-minute four-ways" that PROVE that a wrestler who does one show makes the company "so much better" wrestling wise than WWE.

 

Don't bitch about "indy guys wrestling lots of shows a week" either...this was you saying that show-wise, RoH is better than WWE. The WWE puts a lot better out.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

tpww, I saw your little attempt to blend my sentences together and make my comments seem contradictory...

 

Pretty intelligent to me.

 

About Kane/Taker...I dunno...unless its a one time deal...maybe have Taker return and cost Kane a match with Goldberg

...but end it at WM, please. With Kane going over, though? See, it's a no-win.

 

They've done too much with Kane to put him in a feud with Taker again. One-last-time wouldn't be too bad, though.

 

Everyone's failed to mention the Brock/Goldberg confrontation tonight. The bar really dug that, although BG made Brock look like a complete, speechless pussy. At least the RAW title gained some notoriety for a change, though.

[Michrome 0]

RoH does 2 shows a month now. Indy wrestlers in general work multiple shows a week, and don't wrestle 3-minute specials.

 

RoH just recently had its first big spotfest style cage match, and it was a big success. It's not as if it's something they do every week, once again, after reading you're idiotic ramblings, I'm 100% sure you've never seen the product.

 

If you took all the GOOD MATCHES/ANGLES from a month's worth of Smackdown/Velocity/Raw, and a few house shows, plus the GOOD from the PPVs....WWE blows RoH away at every level.

 

No, no it doesn't. When was the last good, intriguing angle on Raw? The ECW invasion? Smackdown usually is good for a couple good matches, but lately it's been the drizzling shits outside of velocity (where RoH talent makes it tolerable). The same goes for Raw (which is always the drizzling shits). I laugh my ass off when I see people crowing about how great a 4 minute tag with Lance Storm and Chris Jericho was. On November first, Styles and Danielson had a singles match that I'd bet was WORLDS better than anything the WWE has done this month, and I haven't even seen it. There is more good wrestling on one RoH show than 3 months of WWE TV. And if the fact that Indy wrestlers don't work other shows doesn't count, then the house shows WWE workers do don't count either. Once again, you're clearly just trolling without ever having watched the product, so I wonder why I'm wasting my time.

 

But then again, with your indies, the BUILDUP and STORY are usually in the same night/angle...so I can see your perspective.

 

The Steve Corino-Homicide feud that will be blown off on 11/29 has been building up for 13 months. THIRTEEN MONTHS. Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

 

The Raven-Punk feud that will be blown off on 11/28 has been built up for over 8 months. Once again, get a freaking clue.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But how many shows has it been building up?

 

I like Samoa Joe. His match with London was pretty neat. He's nothin fancy. I like that.

[Michrome 0]

Well, it's been building up since the anniversary show, so...

2/8

3/15

3/22

4/12

4/26

5/31

6/14

6/28

7/19

8/9

8/16

9/6

 

Raven has been gone since being "crucified" on 9/6, and he's returning for a revenge blowoff.

[Guest Super Leather]

I rarely post on here and I did not see Survivor Series. However, I felt the need to comment on a couple things that Sledge said. And before I start, I will say that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not trying to start an online fight with a bunch of people that I don't know and probably won't ever meet in person.

 

Crowd heat does impact a match, by making it SEEM better...it doesn't necessarily MAKE it better...

 

In my opinion, it does. An amped-up crowd can make a match even better than it actually is, because if they are into what's going on in the ring, one would figure that the workers would go even harder to entertain the fans. To use an example that is admittedly non-WWE related, I just downloaded the first Wargames match from Soulseek recently, and I'd never gotten to see it before. The crowd is totally into the match almost from beginning to end and even the abrupt finish didn't seem to bring them down. The heat for this match helped me enjoy it even more than I would have, because the crowd heat made the bout that much more important.

 

Now let's take Rey Mysterio vs. Ultimo Dragon at the 1996 Wargames. It's a great match for the most part and both wrestlers were some of my primary reasons for tuning into the mid-90s WCW. However, the crowd is mostly sitting on their hands, only popping for a few big moves once in a while. I don't get it either, but the mostly dead crowd definitely brought down the enjoyment level for me. Not by a whole lot, but enough to where I acknowledge it.

 

Apologies for using WCW matches as an example. They were the first that came to mind, and it's too late at night for me to start racking my brain thinking of WWE examples.

 

 

BUILDUP FOR A MATCH and the STORY OF THE MATCH are two different things.  Stop acting like I think they're the same.

 

Aren't they the same, though? Isn't the buildup part of the story of the match, at least when it's initially broadcast? The background info is extremely important as it gives you more reasons to watch the match, aside from Nathan Jones' incredible workrate or something.

 

Let's say Evolution sans HHH (remember, he's out for the time being) beat down Goldberg in the parking lot and injured his ankle a la the Horsemen and Dusty Rhodes circa 1985, a few weeks going into Survivor Series. I say this because apparently Trips was working Goldberg's leg during their match. It would tie directly into the story of the SurSer match itself, since part of the in-match angle would be "Can Bill Goldberg work through the pain shooting up and down his leg with every step he takes...to overcome the onslaught of HHH, who has threatened his job and his very livelihood by putting a $100,000 bounty on his bald bald head, payable to anyone with wrestling boots that can take him out? Has he been thoroughly softened up by the parking lot beatdown by Evolution? Can he handle the inevitable outside interference as well as the trickery of one Cerebral Assassin? Was his initial defeat of HHH a fluke, or can we truly believe the hype? I mean, BAH GAWD King! So many questions that will be answered in this knock-down, drag 'em out, smashmouth battle of the wills! This ain't ballet folks, and we have these two monsters of the mat to prove that!"

 

Your answer, as I would have booked it: Throughout the match, HHH attacks the bad leg of Goldberg, trying to slow him down and thus make it more difficult to hit power moves such as the Jackhammer. Flair himself does the same when Goldberg's thrown out of the ring in his direction. Goldberg sells the leg (wishful thinking, I know), but is somehow still able to work through the pain nonetheless. At one point in the match, he hits the spear and lifts HHH up for the Jackhammer, but his previously-injured leg gives way and Hunter comes crashing down on Goldberg and covers him for a close 2-count. BAH GAWD King, it looks like Goldberg's title reign is coming to an end as his leg is just too injured to properly be able to execute his finisher and put away the challenger! HHH takes the advantage for some time but Goldberg starts mounting the big Superman comeback. Each member of Evolution interferes in the match and is disposed of in rapid succession by the champion. "Goldberg smells victory! He's working through the pain like a true blue WWE superstar would!" However, the rampant interference gives HHH some recovery time as he sneaks up on Goldberg and nails him from behind and sets up the Pedigree, only to have it blocked by a backdrop. To further sell the leg punishment (a backdrop from that position does require leg strength after all), we can have Goldberg stagger off to the corner to use it as support as he grips his leg in pain. HHH loses his mind over not being able to put away Bald Bill but has made the cardinal mistake of turning his back on his opponent. Meanwhile, Goldberg notices that HHH is flustered and thrown off of his game plan and seizes the opportunity. HHH turns around and eats a spear that turns him inside out. A working-through-the-pain-in-the-name-of-victory Jackhammer and a 1-2-3 later and "If you didn't believe the hype before, BAH GAWD you'd better start now."

 

That's as good of an example as any about how the buildup to the match directly plays into the story itself.

[Guest Jim Ross]

What rocked about Survivor Series was the fact that the Earth Mover vehicle was called 'HOSS'. Check your tapes

 

RoH will never reach as dizzy heights as that.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Not for nothing but i'm getting sick and tired of Orton's super push, the guy hasn't drawn a dime yet and doesn't have any real heat but WWE still pushes this no-talent like he is worth something.I still don't see what's so special about this green unover rookie.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Didn't like the PPV at all except for the tag match and the Survivor Series matches. A definite step down from last month's PPV. One thing I noticed is that people were into the Raw Survior Series match big time but people weren't interested in HHH vs Goldberg at all. In fact a sizeable portion of the people watching left (where I was at) and the others just weren't really interested.

[Guest Goodear]

The main event suffered from a lack of build up in my opinion, WP. With Triple H hardly on the shows leading up to the title shot and Goldberg doing a similar approach, it comes as little surprise that people looked at the RAW tag as the main event since it got most of the hype.

[Damaramu 0]

Well I was expecting nothing and got SOMETHING so I'm satisfied.

Couple of comments though:

 

-The SD! Tag match was to quick. There were to many shotgun eliminations.

 

-Kane should've done to Shane what UT did to Vince.

 

-There was something satisfying about watching Vince get beaten within an inch of his life.

 

-Also the ending to that match seemed to put Kane over more than anything. Notice how we never saw Vince after he climbed into the loader? It was all Kane.

 

-The SD tag match was to short

 

-The Mark Cuban thing was ONLY there so that the live crowd would boo Orton. I guess the figured out that he's heatless.

 

-I called the ending to the RAW Tag Match as soon as the ref bumped. I kept saying "When's Batista coming out?" and then when he came out I was like "Oh there he is." I knew it was coming.

 

-Shawn and Vince gave MANLY blade jobs

 

-Way to do the right thing HHH. Goldberg was once again the shitkicking badass that he should be

 

-NO match was above ***. And no star ratings are not an opinion. As me, Rudo, and Ray always try to say...there are certain factors that make a match good. You can't say "It was entertaining! *****!" Then Big Show/Angle from Backlash would be *****.

 

Overall it was better than expected...but it wasn't "OMG GREATEST PPV OF THE YEAR~!" that honor is still reserved by Royal Rumble, WMXIX, or Vengeance.

[Guest NCJ]

I agree certain factors make a good match, but star ratings are an opinion based on what you put the most emphasis on. I doubt you, Rudo, and Ray all see every match the same. There are certain undeniable factors that make a good movie, but when rating movies from different genres and comparing them it is up to each person to decide what they care for the most. Yes wrestling is wrestling, but different matches are suppose to convey different things. And each person takes what they want to focus on from that match.

[Eclipse 0]

One of the best PPVs in a while by the WWE. It kept me entertained the whole time.

 

I still don't get ALL THE HYPE FOR Holly, and he is taken out like 3 seconds into the match. That Shane /Kane match was brutal. I cringed when Kane fell on his head....and then got laced with the door.

 

RAW SS match...BEST OF THE NIGHT! Wow....Evolution put themselves WAY over with that Batista interference. HBK put on an awesome performance.

 

The SD SS match was ok. The letdown was that it ended too quickly. UBER mark out moment when Cena lifted Show for the FU.

 

And surprisingly enough, HHH lost again.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Sledge, I stopped reading after the 'Kane looked credible' arguement...the ROH stuff didn't help either. I get your point and all, and it's nice to see someone positive about the WWE product, but insulting ROH isn't a good idea.

 

 

As for the show...

 

I like Randy Orton. So shoot me. I'm an Orton fan, and I enjoyed him out there tonight. The selling of the Stunner was funny as hell.

 

Admitedly, I got a kick out of the guys in the front row with derogatory signs for each hell Raw guy in the tag match...the Orton one with his head, and 'total idiot' on was funny.

 

Michaels saved the show for me. Awesome stuff. The blade job made the whole match memorable for me. **** for the match...I don't know, it seemed a little plodding in places, D-Von needs to do soemthing over than a flying shoulderblock and the tag moves, Jericho's chair shot, Austin hitting Bischoff and Orton without physical provocation and Bubba was one of the last two for the face team. But I enjoyed it.

 

Back to Orton...that skit with Cuban pissed me off. WHY couldn't that time have been given to Noble/Tajiri, which had a STORYLINE...had big time crowd heat, yet ended up as a 3 minute Heat match.

 

Vince's bladejob made me smile. In a good way. Gave the match a better feel, just like the Raw Tag.

 

The SD Tag was ridiculous to begin with. Why put A-Train and Bradshaw in a match, so they can get eliminated within a couple of minutes. I felt sorry for the Train out there, considering that he's had not too bad matches recently, and gets treated like that. But, it's nice to see Benoit and Cena getting the rub.

 

I too noticed the digger saying 'HOSS' on it. Too funny.

 

I dug the women's match tonight, and the tag title match was tolerable.

 

Credit to Kane for trying his best with Shane. I still dig some of Shane's stuff, in a markish sort of way, but the feud's run it's course with even me. That ambulance door shot to Kane was sick as hell.

 

HHH-Goldberg was boring. Enough said.

 

 

All in all, a decent enough show. Nice to see the WWE pushing the new talent...even if it is Randy Orton who most people here seem to hate, and Cena who's not exactly a smark favourite in the ring either. Plus the Benoit push begins. Hopefully there's less McMahon-o-mania at Armageddon.

[Enigma 0]

I watched on Ring of Honor show back in 2002 and thought it was the most boring pile of shit I've ever seen.

[Guest Anglesault]

It's not like Kane and Shane locked up and then Shane used his brute strength to overpower him.

 

Did you people even watch the damn show?

 

AT ALL?

 

Shane lunged and Kane went over the roped, SICKLY dropping right on top of his head. Shane then cracked him 3 times with TV monitors, broke down his legs with cane-shots...

 

It made sense.

No it did NOT.

 

If Kane is an unstoppable monster, Shane shouldn't dominate the match and come a breath away from winning.

 

It SHOULD have been a preview Buried Alive where Shane gets like three punches, all shrugged off and laughed at and then MASSACRED without another offensive move.

 

THAT'S how you build a monster.