Randy Orton

[Guest RollingSambos]

Okay, for over a year now I've heard a vast majority of you smart marks refer to Randy Orton with names such as "SuckBag" and descriptions such as "worthless". I'm just interested as to why you think he is such a horrible performer. Don't just give me bullshit answers like, "His ring work sucks"...tell me WHY it sucks. Point out something that he does that you don't like. Don't make up outright lies either like, "He's not convincing me that he's cocky." You may as well say that he has a horrible physique. So let's get on with it...if Randy Orton is so goddamn bad, prove it to me.

 

Here's what I think is good about Randy:

 

1. I think that he's got a great look...he's 6'4", but he's not a heavily-muscled hoss...yet he doesn't look weak either. He's basically built perfectly for athletic competition and being a narcissist. A lot of smarks will argue that look and presentation means nothing, but it does. The more convincing that you look as an athlete, the easier it is to get over with the fans.

 

2. He's a very smooth worker. You can't take that away from him. You watch some guys who are green like Nathan Jones, and the action in the ring is stop-and-go. Orton may be a little green, but he hides it very well. I'm not saying that he was this smooth a year ago, but today he is. He never stops moving, something that The Rock also used to his advantage when he was still developing as a worker.

 

3. He's third generation. It's in the blood. Some may argue that this doesn't mean shit, but I think that growing up in the business gives you an edge. Look at guys like Curt Hennig, Bret and Owen, The Rock...when it's a family tradition, you tend to dedicate yourself a little bit more to being the best. You have something to live up to. I think that Randy is going to be one of the best one day.

 

4. His flying cross-body press...it's a thing of beauty. Ditto for his dropkick.

 

5. The RKO...I have never understood people bitching about it as a finisher. They say it's a crappy rip-off of the Diamond Cutter. Fuck that, the RKO looks a lot nastier than Page's Diamond Cutter. Randy gets major air before lowering the boom and the impact looks far more devastating...instead of just getting your face driven into the mat, there also appears to be impact on the jaw and chin ala the Stone Cold Stunner. Now I'm sure that the puro guys are going to jump in here and give a lecture on the finer points of a proper Ace Crusher, but nobody ever said that the RKO was an Ace Crusher or a Diamond Cutter or a Stunner. It's the RKO...it's a little bit of all of those moves, and it looks great.

 

6. The promos and the charisma...either some people around here are deaf and/or blind, or they just hate Randy so much that nothing he does will ever be good enough for them. For me, his promos ooze a natural cockiness. Like I've said before, he's not over-the-top with it like Lex or Buff Bagwell...he's just laid-back and very sure of himself. To me, that's a more realistic portrayal of conceit. And tell me that his entrance doesn't convince you that he thinks that he's the shit. Let's not forget those RNN Updates either...

 

7. I like his intensity in the ring, how when he gets the tag the first thing that he does is just beat the shit out of the guy before hitting any big moves on him. It reminds me of Austin and Angle, who will give you a good pounding before they actually wrestle you. He combines a mean streak with his God-given athletic ability, and it makes for a nice package.

 

8. He's athletic as hell...he's quick, he's got a great vertical leap, great timing...all of the elements that are going to help him become a great worker.

 

That's pretty much it...other than that, he just has that "X" factor that screams future superstar. You can just tell that he's destined for great things, and that he's not even 1/2 of the worker that he will become one day.

[teke184 0]

What it boils down to is that Orton is barely above average at this point in his career and yet he's getting the biggest blowjob push since Trips himself.

 

I'd say the kid's got potential down the road but it'll be ruined forever if they push him before he's ready... like they're trying to do now.

[Guest RollingSambos]

I'd say the kid's got potential down the road but it'll be ruined forever if they push him before he's ready... like they're trying to do now.

 

Oh really? See Maivia, Rocky.

 

Yep, he turned out to be QUITE the loser.

[Guest Choken One]

Good Look? I'll give him that.

 

He can hit a Dropkick and a Body Press. Yay. The two most basic moves in the history of wrestling.

 

RNN were nice. It fit him perfectly. Not "The Chosen One" gimmick he has now.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

For me personally, he does perfectly fine with the natural cocky attitude, his delivery is fine but what he says is what kills it for me. It's just basic heel stuff with "legend killer" stapled on top. Too be a cocky jackass, IMO, you have to at least have an obnoxious wit or sense of humor about you and he doesn't. I don't mean make him a comedy character but smartass remarks, like Hardy or Jericho makes. He's just an average heel who reminds people that he occasionally hits old people. Thats it.

 

His look is fine, the tattoos look wrong on him though. Other than that, I'm fine look wise with him.

 

The RKO is a very good move, it just doesn't scream finisher to me, seems like a solid transition move, I preferred the Overdrive AKA Elix SKipper's Play Of The Day he used a few times but thats just me. Hell I think his neckbreaker variation is more devastating looking

 

The dropkick and cross body block look great but they both are more readily identified as big comeback moves, ya know, like when a face is making a big fiery comeback and not egotistical heel moves.

 

As far as the third generation thing goes, all of those people you mentioned did extensive work in much smaller promotions. Randy was of course in OVW but he knew where he was headed day 1, so it is a bit different. He never really had to prove himself, he got handed a pretty good deal right off the bat.

 

But overall, I don't mind him really. He's still new at the whole wrestling thing so I don't expect him to be Jesus but I think most are just annoyed by him being placed so high on the card without doing anything particularly interesting.

[Guest RollingSambos]

He can hit a Dropkick and a Body Press. Yay. The two most basic moves in the history of wrestling.

 

He doesn't just hit the dropkick and body press, Chokes, he has the best dropkick and body press in the business. The body press is hardly "basic" the way that he does it...and only somebody with his athleticism could pul lit off. Give credit where it's due.

[Tawren 0]

Here's what I think is good about Randy:

 

1. I think that he's got a great look...he's 6'4", but he's not a heavily-muscled hoss...yet he doesn't look weak either. He's basically built perfectly for athletic competition and being a narcissist. A lot of smarks will argue that look and presentation means nothing, but it does. The more convincing that you look as an athlete, the easier it is to get over with the fans.

Looks mean jack shit as far as ability goes, and most of us bitch about how little ability he has.

 

2. He's a very smooth worker. You can't take that away from him. You watch some guys who are green like Nathan Jones, and the action in the ring is stop-and-go. Orton may be a little green, but he hides it very well. I'm not saying that he was this smooth a year ago, but today he is. He never stops moving, something that The Rock also used to his advantage when he was still developing as a worker.

 

Agree that he is smooth, I do. [/Yoda]

 

3. He's third generation. It's in the blood. Some may argue that this doesn't mean shit, but I think that growing up in the business gives you an edge. Look at guys like Curt Hennig, Bret and Owen, The Rock...when it's a family tradition, you tend to dedicate yourself a little bit more to being the best. You have something to live up to. I think that Randy is going to be one of the best one day.

 

Just because he is third generation doesn't make him good. Maybe this doesn't exactly fit, but my dad works in the oil business-that doesn't automatically make me good at it.

 

4. His flying cross-body press...it's a thing of beauty. Ditto for his dropkick.

2 good moves that all the other generic hoss(or non-hoss)es can do.

 

5. The RKO...I have never understood people bitching about it as a finisher. They say it's a crappy rip-off of the Diamond Cutter. Fuck that, the RKO looks a lot nastier than Page's Diamond Cutter. Randy gets major air before lowering the boom and the impact looks far more devastating...instead of just getting your face driven into the mat, there also appears to be impact on the jaw and chin ala the Stone Cold Stunner. Now I'm sure that the puro guys are going to jump in here and give a lecture on the finer points of a proper Ace Crusher, but nobody ever said that the RKO was an Ace Crusher or a Diamond Cutter or a Stunner. It's the RKO...it's a little bit of all of those moves, and it looks great.

 

I think it looks bad because he runs and jumps...it really takes the point of the move away to me.

 

6. The promos and the charisma...either some people around here are deaf and/or blind, or they just hate Randy so much that nothing he does will ever be good enough for them. For me, his promos ooze a natural cockiness. Like I've said before, he's not over-the-top with it like Lex or Buff Bagwell...he's just laid-back and very sure of himself. To me, that's a more realistic portrayal of conceit. And tell me that his entrance doesn't convince you that he thinks that he's the shit. Let's not forget those RNN Updates either...

 

I really don't see that. I see a lot of forced confidence. He doesn't look natural when he gives an interview. But that might be him reading from the script the writers give him, I don't know.

 

7. I like his intensity in the ring, how when he gets the tag the first thing that he does is just beat the shit out of the guy before hitting any big moves on him. It reminds me of Austin and Angle, who will give you a good pounding before they actually wrestle you. He combines a mean streak with his God-given athletic ability, and it makes for a nice package.

 

Agree.

 

8. He's athletic as hell...he's quick, he's got a great vertical leap, great timing...all of the elements that are going to help him become a great worker.

 

Just because he can jump high doesn't make him a good worker.

 

 

My opinions.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

Oh really? See Maivia, Rocky.

 

Yep, he turned out to be QUITE the loser

 

Yeah but, WWE know when to quit with it. Now it seems like WWE won't give up with Orton anytime soon.

 

I guess, in other words, what happened with The Rock just happened, it wasn't planned out but, The Rock just took off. Now it seems like WWE wants it to happen again and instead of letting it just happen they are trying to plan every little thing out.

[Downhome 0]

Listen.

 

 

 

 

 

It's coming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PAINFULLY AVERAGE~!

[Tawren 0]

He can hit a Dropkick and a Body Press. Yay. The two most basic moves in the history of wrestling.

 

He doesn't just hit the dropkick and body press, Chokes, he has the best dropkick and body press in the business. The body press is hardly "basic" the way that he does it...and only somebody with his athleticism could pul lit off. Give credit where it's due.

I don't know about body press, but LOTS of people do better dropkicks than him.

[Guest RollingSambos]

2 good moves that all the other generic hoss(or non-hoss)es can do.

 

No...last time I checked, flying cross-bodies and dropkicks are not "hoss" moves. I think you are thinking of spinebusters and big boots.

[Tawren 0]

2 good moves that all the other generic hoss(or non-hoss)es can do.

 

No...last time I checked, flying cross-bodies and dropkicks are not "hoss" moves. I think you are thinking of spinebusters and big boots.

Note how I put the (or non-hoss) in there. I meant anyone from OVW. They all do dropkicks and spinebusters, etc. etc. Example: Jindrak and Cade.

[Guest Choken One]

He can hit a Dropkick and a Body Press. Yay. The two most basic moves in the history of wrestling.

 

He doesn't just hit the dropkick and body press, Chokes, he has the best dropkick and body press in the business. The body press is hardly "basic" the way that he does it...and only somebody with his athleticism could pul lit off. Give credit where it's due.

I don't know about body press, but LOTS of people do better dropkicks than him.

Hardcore Holly

Erik Watts

HBK

Eddy...

The Short little Vanilla Indy Boys (London, Spanky and the rest of them)...

[2GOLD 0]

The WWF pushed Rocky as a face and the crowd hated him, then they just went with it.

 

Randy doesn't have the charisma of the Rock. And Randy isn't being pushed down our throats as a face.

 

His look screams nothing more than Lex Luger Version 2 and his in ring talent is just above Luger in every area.

 

And he damn sure doesn't have the charisma to pull off a Rock like save. Hell, the only guys with the charisma to even be able to walk near the same ballpark as Rocky are Jericho and Matt Hardy.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Hardcore Holly

Erik Watts

HBK

Eddy...

The Short little Vanilla Indy Boys (London, Spanky and the rest of them)...

 

HBK doesn't have a better dropkick. Holly? Maybe. Personally, I like the way that Orton snaps his off and gets such great height at the same time. To each his own.

 

By the way, don't bring puro or indy or NWA-TNA guys into this because this is the WWF folder and I am only comparing Orton to other WWF workers.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

If they keep him in the IC Divison for now, then I think he will evolve into a much better heel in a couple of months. Just give him a couple more feuds, with guys like RVD/Booker and other faces, and over time, he will become big.

[JHawk 0]

He doesn't just hit the dropkick and body press, Chokes, he has the best dropkick and body press in the business. The body press is hardly "basic" the way that he does it...and only somebody with his athleticism could pul lit off. Give credit where it's due.

 

I'll agree with you on the bodypress, particularly the version he does that looks like a standing frog splash, but I'll disagree with you on the dropkick. Maven and Mark Jindrak both get higher in the air on their dropkicks, and so could Bob Holly before the last injury.

[Guest Choken One]

The WWF pushed Rocky as a face and the crowd hated him, then they just went with it.

 

Randy doesn't have the charisma of the Rock. And Randy isn't being pushed down our throats as a face.

 

His look screams nothing more than Lex Luger Version 2 and his in ring talent is just above Luger in every area.

 

And he damn sure doesn't have the charisma to pull off a Rock like save. Hell, the only guys with the charisma to even be able to walk near the same ballpark as Rocky are Jericho and Matt Hardy.

Are we only refering to Raw brand here?

 

Cuz Eddy and Cena have pretty damn good charisma...

 

 

HBK has pretty good Charisma when he isn't on JESUS mode.

 

Don't forget about mr Overrated...RVD.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Randy doesn't have the charisma of the Rock.

 

NO ONE has the charisma of Rock 2003, but don't jump to conclusions. Rock wasn't exactly electrifying in 1997 or even 1998. I think that now he's hit his peak but it took him many, many years to get there.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

20 years ago he'd be perfect

 

Thing is today like The Rock you actually have to have catchphrases and ring work that gets the crowd in to your matches to get where Randy is headed.

 

Orton has one catchphrase that i've heard so far that he utters in the most robotic fashion-

"I'm the legend killer...because I kill legends"

 

Diamond Cutter > RKO

 

While trips is in the vault he should grab a box full of ddp matches for Orton so he can study the diamond cutter and learn to do it right.

 

 

I'm not an Orton hater.I just don't see what seperates him from guys like jindrak and cade other then a bunch of tattoos and a relation to some past greats.Their characters are bland, period.

[teke184 0]

I'd say the kid's got potential down the road but it'll be ruined forever if they push him before he's ready... like they're trying to do now.

 

Oh really? See Maivia, Rocky.

 

Yep, he turned out to be QUITE the loser.

The problem is they're trying to create another Rock instead of just doing what's best for Randy. Creating a Rock to begin with was an accident... trying to recreate what happened is flirting with disaster unless they kid excels tremendously in the ring or on the mic, which he hasn't shown yet. The only mic work Orton's really gotten over with was the RNN stuff.

[Tawren 0]

Randy doesn't have the charisma of the Rock.

 

NO ONE has the charisma of Rock 2003, but don't jump to conclusions. Rock wasn't exactly electrifying in 1997 or even 1998. I think that now he's hit his peak but it took him many, many years to get there.

WrestleMania 14, early 98, Rock interviewed by Jenny McLastName. Charisma-right there.

[Guest RollingSambos]

I just don't see what seperates him from guys like jindrak and cade other then a bunch of tattoos and a relation to some past greats.

 

The arrogance, the charisma, the association with the top heel stable on RAW...

 

Plus, Cade and Orton are both better than Jindrak. Jindrak is an amazing athlete but he only has 2 moves, the springboard flying clothesline and the dropkick. Orton is actually developing a moveset.

[Guest RollingSambos]

WrestleMania 14, early 98, Rock interviewed by Jenny McLastName. Charisma-right there.

 

That interview wasn't any better than the RNN Updates, the "smell what I'm cooking" bit just happened to catch on like wildfire. The "oral office" bit was actually very cheesy and he fucked up a line about the homeless. That's the difference between Rock of 1998 and Rock of today: back then, you could tell he was cutting a promo. Now he just seems so much more natural and sure of himself and not reading from a script.

[Guest Choken One]

I'd say the kid's got potential down the road but it'll be ruined forever if they push him before he's ready... like they're trying to do now.

 

Oh really? See Maivia, Rocky.

 

Yep, he turned out to be QUITE the loser.

The problem is they're trying to create another Rock instead of just doing what's best for Randy. Creating a Rock to begin with was an accident... trying to recreate what happened is flirting with disaster unless they kid excels tremendously in the ring or on the mic, which he hasn't shown yet. The only mic work Orton's really gotten over with was the RNN stuff.

You would think they learned their lesson with Warrior and Luger not being the NEXT hogan.

 

 

Also it applies with HHH, when HHH was TRIPLE H, THE GAME...he was something special but as THE NEXT RIC FLAIR he's nothing.

 

Character or ring wise.

[Guest Choken One]

WrestleMania 14, early 98, Rock interviewed by Jenny McLastName. Charisma-right there.

 

That interview wasn't any better than the RNN Updates, the "smell what I'm cooking" bit just happened to catch on like wildfire. The "oral office" bit was actually very cheesy and he fucked up a line about the homeless. That's the difference between Rock of 1998 and Rock of today: back then, you could tell he was cutting a promo. Now he just seems so much more natural and sure of himself and not reading from a script.

As opposed to mr mumbles BRILLIANT promos so far?

 

 

He butchered the line to Austin two weeks ago and even Dave Batistia had to pick up the ball there.

[Guest RollingSambos]

HHH doesn't suck because he's the "next Ric Flair", he sucks because he's a roided cripple.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

IMO, Batista has shown more consistent mic work. He's not as naturally cocky, but his overall delivery is much better.

[2GOLD 0]

You can't learn charisma, you either have the shit or you don't. Even when Rock was Rocky Maviva, you could almost sense the guy was loaded with charisma. It was just there.

 

You can learn to work a mic, but that's not charisma. Rock had the ability to make you love him or hate him without opening his mouth, the guy was just that loaded with the stuff. Nothing about Randy Orton makes me seperate him from the rest.

 

The guy is Luger with some more air, nothing more and nothing less. He looks like nothing more than an arrogant jock.

[Guest RollingSambos]

He butchered the line to Austin two weeks ago and even Dave Batistia had to pick up the ball there.

 

Jesus Christ, I'm not saying that Orton is the perfect promo man! I'm pointing out that OTHER now-great promo guys made mistakes in their rookie years. So Orton is allowed to fuck up a few times without you guys writing him off.

 

Man, read what I am actually saying before you attempt to make a point.