Randy Orton

[Lil' Bitch 0]

OMG, I can't believe Besus wasn't the one who started this thread.

[Highland 0]

Batista will be better than Orton, but I don't think either are that bad, and the Sean Waltman heat Orton gets from this board is just fucking ridiculous. If we're all pissed off at him because of his push then blame Vince, not Orton.

As for his moveset, promos, etc. he'll learn them and improve upon them as every single worker before and after him has/will do.

Give the guy a break.

Also, I like his finisher, especially the way he runs, jumps and just drives his opponent into the mat with the move. It looks alot better than the stunner, but I don't ever hear anyone bitching about how unconvincing that move is.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

How is the stunner unconvincing? You jack your jaw hard on a shoulder blade. I'd THINK that would hurt a little.

 

I don't like Orton right now because of how hard he's pushed in conjunction with his skill. That's not his fault in regards to how he's pushed but I just can't see anything in the guy other than him being a great bumping machine.

Besides the fact that he looks stoned out of his gourd all the time, he's not hateable cocky. He's "that's that loser who thinks he's the shit" cocky. He has no wit. If you want to go for cocky that works you go for Guerrero, Flair, Cena, Perfect, Michaels, etc. You don't go for Luger because that was never his strong point.

 

Legend Killer isn't working because all these legends pop back up all the damn time. Slaughter, Moolah, Mae, etc. are all going to be back. Shawn Michaels is still around and he jobbed to Orton.

[Damaramu 0]

I actually think his push is more confusing and stupid than anything. On the WWE's part.

He's booked as a big wuss who can't beat the legends without the help of Ric Flair. Then he and the WWE turn around and go on about how he's the legend killer and about how good he is. Yet.....he hasn't actually beaten a legend cleanly.......so in the fan's eyes he's just a big pussy.

It wouldn't be so bad if the announcers played it up like "Randy with that big ego! He didn't actually beat HBK!" No they play it up like he pinned the guy with one foot after a knock out punch!

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I'd say the kid's got potential down the road but it'll be ruined forever if they push him before he's ready... like they're trying to do now.

 

Oh really? See Maivia, Rocky.

 

Yep, he turned out to be QUITE the loser.

Orton is far from being the Rock......just to clarify.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Florida isn't "the south".

What planet did you come from to have a brainfart like *that*?

[Guest Goodear]

It's not the South in the way that a bunch of people there wear cowboy hats, say y'all, and fly Confederate flags all over the place. Florida is more of the place old people go to die.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Can someone make a list of who Orton has been convincingly put over, ala Triple H/Foley, Lesnar/Midcard or Goldberg/WCW Roster?

[Guest Goodear]

As far as 'clean' wins that were as clean as the driven snow?

 

Tommy Dreamer

Spike Dudley

Maven

Garrison Cade

Mark Jindrak

[Guest Ghettoman]

So can someone tells me how that = monster push?

 

The legend killer thing is to sell t-shirts and make his first line of fueds easier to justify. He's being put out there so he can become a recognizable face, and yes it's because the WWE feels they have a chance to make money with him in the future. He's got a great look, good nack for the little things like his old school beauty punches, ring awareness, good at selling through transitions, and the only things he really lacks to become a big time stick handler will come in time if he simply refines what he has.

 

I think all this talk is just because some peopel aren't behind his character, and when your not behind his character you go through great lengths to justify it as if it were based on absolute fact, which usually makes people stretch or invent there own truth.

 

No one's saying he's great, but you don't have to be great to get air time and experience, you just have to show promise, which he does.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

It's not the South in the way that a bunch of people there wear cowboy hats, say y'all, and fly Confederate flags all over the place.

You'd be surprised.

[Guest Goodear]

Ghettoman is indeed correct with only the extra-added caviate that Orton runs around with Triple H on camera (and ergo 'blows him') which is always a problem for SMs.

 

Also the 'shoving him down our throats' deal which is simply SM code for you know... pushing a guy.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

The legend killer thing is to sell t-shirts and make his first line of fueds easier to justify.

There's a legend killer T-shirt out there?

 

No one's saying he's great, but you don't have to be great to get air time and experience, you just have to show promise, which he does.

 

You can't say Jericho, Christian or Matt Hardy are any worse than he is, yet no one is claiming that they should be company pillars in five years. I wonder why that is.

 

And no one says he's great? Did you read the first post of this thread? Or the RAW thread?

[razazteca 0]

It's not the South in the way that a bunch of people there wear cowboy hats, say y'all, and fly Confederate flags all over the place.

You'd be surprised.

Try living in the Panhandle and you will find out that Jeff Foxworthy is god. Panama City is called the Redneck Riveria, BAWH GAWD!

 

Randy Orton still sux.

[Guest Goodear]

You can't say Jericho, Christian or Matt Hardy are any worse than he is, yet no one is claiming that they should be company pillars in five years. I wonder why that is.

 

'No one' meaning JR and The King who are the worst announce crew since Lee Marshall and Eric Bischoff?

 

Anyway...

 

Jericho is totally wrong for the 'future champion' push because he's already been the champion. Plus you certainly don't want Jericho to be Triple H's lackey so it makes no sense for him to be in Randy's spot as lackey.

 

Christian and Matt Hardy have also been around the federation forever and would be ill suited to be members of 'the next generation' since they're already tied very closely to the current one. Their characters (of a complete self-centered jerk and a psuedo cult leader) also don't translate into being lackeys like Orton is doing.

[2GOLD 0]

I'm waiting for someone to claim Randy Orton is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

 

Oh and shoving down my throat is not my lingo for being pushed. It's my lingo for "Christ, you just HAD a segment two minutes ago...and ten minutes before that.....and ten minutes before that!"

 

Go back to complaining about the shoulder, at least that way he was on tv for about 20 seconds and then was gone.

[Guest Ghettoman]

You can just tell that he's destined for great things, and that he's not even 1/2 of the worker that he will become one day.

 

Most flattering thing I found and that doesn't seem like he's saying he's up there with the upper echelon of workers.

 

All of us who like him right now are behind his character and see some obvious signs of him becoming something. No one's saying he's already merited this super push, which is often talked about but never seen, were saying he's not the cancerous worker turning off and putting fans to sleep like some of his detractors would love to have you believe, and that yes, Randy Orton is a likable and enjoyable character right now.

 

And of course there's legend killer shirts, in production or on shelves, they're there.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Florida is more of the place old people go to die.

 

It's actually quite crime-ridden. I hate that, when people just assume it's a Disney-sponsored retirement community.

[Guest Ghettoman]

2GOLD, can you tell me how TV time=push? Did Austin get a bigger push than Taker in the last say 4 months?

 

There making him a recognizable face, he has reason to be around, and he's effective right now. Thats not a push, thats called being used, your probably just not used to it being a more meaningful thign.

[Guest Goodear]

I'm waiting for someone to claim Randy Orton is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

 

Way to miss the point (again and continuously). No one here other than the guy is super perfect and the king of all he surveys and cures cancer with his bile. It just seems like a certain number of people have decided that he's a 'suckbag'. Obviously, you would rather turn this into a battle of big ass extremes, neither of which are accurate, than actually debate a sensible point.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Goodear, what are you talking about with the lackey stuff? And Ghettoman, whether you like his character or not is not the point.

 

What I mean is that Orton is touted as the 'future of the business' and believe me it is NOT limited to JR and King. Quite a few people swallow their Kool-Aid. What does he do that's better than anyone else? Nothing. Batista has beaten HBK more convincingly than Orton has ever done.

[razazteca 0]

The only way Orton could of gotten over was if Goldust was his partner. Goldie can work miracles but he is gone now and shall be missed.

[Guest Goodear]

I go to the lackey stuff because the whole 'future champ' propaganda stems from The Evolution stable that has the expressed purpose of past, present, and future championships. It is my opinion that Jericho, Christian, and Matt wouldn't fit within that stable right now as the 'future' like Orton and Batista due to their prior experience in WWE.

 

Now, if you want me to tell you that JR and The King should 'talk up' everyone like they do Dave and Randy... I would be happy to do that. I'm totally of the opinion that they should build up for workers through commentary than they do presently. But it doesn't make me hate the younger members of Evolution because they actually got it right.

 

 

*** What I mean is that Orton is touted as the 'future of the business' and believe me it is NOT limited to JR and King. Quite a few people swallow their Kool-Aid. ***

 

If you're talking about average fans and such... well good. Why wouldn't you want to get a guy marked with the 'future superstar' label? Slap it on as many people as you can.

 

If you're talking about people here that are scared that Orton will main event Wrestlemania... well, I think they're wrong but hey, I've been wrong before.

[2GOLD 0]

God, lighten up.

 

What the hell is the point of debating if you can't toss in a joke every once and a while? This isn't Congress for goodness sake.

 

I'd actually would like it if someone DID call him the second coming of Jesus, least then he could team with HBK and maybe The Choir Kid could get him over.

 

All I said the guy gets way too much tv time (not his fault of course), I think he looks and sounds like Lex Luger, I think he has Luger's gimmick and all he needs is a mirror to walk to the ring with, and I can't see the guy as the future.

 

You may be right, I may be right. But if we can't interject comedy then things get too damn serious discussing a guy who is greener than a field in Ireland.

[Guest RollingSambos]

QUOTE (RollingSambos @ Nov 25 2003, 12:09 AM)

Florida isn't "the south". 

 

What planet did you come from to have a brainfart like *that*?

 

Planet Traskiak.

[J. Hungerford Smith 0]

*sheds a tear*

[Guest Goodear]

Must be from that Banky school of comedy that I really don't get. More's the pity, if only I were more sofisticated I'm sure I would be coughing up blood from the pain of laughing so very hard...

 

Like Shawn Michaels!

[razazteca 0]

All I said the guy gets way too much tv time (not his fault of course), I think he looks and sounds like Lex Luger, I think he has Luger's gimmick and all he needs is a mirror to walk to the ring with, and I can't see the guy as the future

All Randy needs to do now is drink Stacker2 from a fancy wine glass and proclaim that he is the greatest young talent on Raw today.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I go to the lackey stuff because the whole 'future champ' propaganda stems from The Evolution stable that has the expressed purpose of past, present, and future championships.  It is my opinion that Jericho, Christian, and Matt wouldn't fit within that stable right now as the 'future' like Orton and Batista due to their prior experience in WWE.

Yet all three are as good as playing 'cocky' characters as Orton is, yet JR isn't constantly touting how well they can take moves, or King on how good-looking they are. Hence my point.

 

Now, if you want me to tell you that JR and The King should 'talk up' everyone like they do Dave and Randy... I would be happy to do that.  I'm totally of the opinion that they should build up for workers through commentary than they do presently.  But it doesn't make me hate the younger members of Evolution because they actually got it right.

 

Of course they should build up their workers through their words. Didn't say to the contrary.

 

If you're talking about average fans and such... well good.  Why wouldn't you want to get a guy marked with the 'future superstar' label?  Slap it on as many people as you can.

 

Do you watch Velocity? Sean O'Haire has taken up permanent residence there yet he's constantly touted as 'the future'. It's laughable. And why wouldn't you want it slapped on as many people? Two words: Billy Gunn. People were praising him as the next Shawn Michaels after he broke away from Bart in late 96 (no joke). Then came the 99 push and JR and King were treating him not unlike they treat Orton today. But hey, if you throw darts long enough you'll eventually hit the target.

 

If you're talking about people here that are scared that Orton will main event Wrestlemania... well, I think they're wrong but hey, I've been wrong before.

 

Yeah, let's not get into that.

 

Anyway, I am probably anticipating Orton/RVD more than any other match for several reasons.

 

1) There's little crossover in the respective fandoms. Very few RVD fans like Orton and several Orton fans don't like RVD.

2) The match itself won't be anything special because RVD doesn't care unless there's a prop involved and Orton isn't anywhere close to dictating a match's pace.

3) The arguments afterward about who made the match suck from the respective camps.

Edited November 25, 2003 by Mulatto Heat

[2GOLD 0]

All I said the guy gets way too much tv time (not his fault of course), I think he looks and sounds like Lex Luger, I think he has Luger's gimmick and all he needs is a mirror to walk to the ring with, and I can't see the guy as the future

All Randy needs to do now is drink Stacker2 from a fancy wine glass and proclaim that he is the greatest young talent on Raw today.

 

See?

 

Have some fun with it.

 

Man, it's not like any of us can be proved right or wrong this damn early in the guys career. Some of us have problems with the guy, but I don't "hate" him. I dislike him and don't see anything but that doesn't make me wrong.

 

Lack of comedy is what causing stupid fights over things.