The problem with match endings in the WWE.

[Guest Breetai]

What I'm talking about here is the one-dimentionality of match endings. This has more to do with the WWE style than anything else, the fact that almost every match involves the winning competitor's one finisher, and that's when YOU KNOW the match will end.

 

Example; Stone Cold. In practically 99% of his matches he ends with Kick-Wham-Stunner-1-2-3. Now consider someone else. Let's take Misawa for example. (Yes, I know that this isn't the puro board, but I'm using him for a reason.) Misawa has no less than 6 moves that can realistically end the match. (The Roaring/Rolling elbow, the bridged German Suplex, the Tiger Driver, the Tiger Suplex, The Emerald Fusion/Frosion/Erosion and, when all else fails, the mighty Tiger Driver '91.) This breaks up the monotony of every match ending with the same move, establishes certain moves as being truly deadly, and whats more, it puts Misawa in a position where he can put other wrestlers over without losing his heat.

 

By this, I mean the following. Consider his match agains Kawada in 94, considered by some to be the greatest singles match of all time. They threw everything they had at each other and in the end Misawa had to resort to using the TD'91. Consider the net effect; Kawada gets over as a major threat, as Misawa had to resort to such extremes to beat him, and Misawa goes over. The impression that the crowd gets is that while Kawada can't beat Misawa YET, that it's very possible, but at the same time, Misawa's still a badass.

 

Now can the WWE pull this kind of thing off? Generally no. 3 examples do come to mind, the first being HHH vs Cactus Jack, streetfight. Cactus kicked out of the Pedigree at the end, but then jobbed to a second one soon after. The effect of this wasn't the fans thinking "Hah, HHH is such a little bitch, Cactus kicked right out of the pedigree, that move is shit", rather they thought "Wow, taking the pedegree and kicking out means that cactus is a fucking indestructable badass, and HHH is a badass too, for being able to put him down. This was an example of VERY GOOD BOOKING, however, and not quite what we're looking at.

 

The second example, and more of an example of what NOT to do, is Austin/Angle, where Angle kicked out of the FUCKING STUNNER 3 FUCKING TIMES. For me at least that was very bad booking, as the overall worth of the stunner was IMMENSELY devalued in that match. (But then Austin went over everyone like he always does, so everything's allright now.)

 

The third, and perhaps best, example, is that of Undertaker v. Brock in the cell. Brock kicked out of the Chokeslam, BARELY scraped out of the Last Ride, and ended up winning the match. HOWEVER, the Tombstone wasn't used, and it's still very up in the air in kayfabe terms whether Taker could actually beat Brock, as the Tombstone is the wildcard. If Taker was a young up-and-comer with a future ahead of him and he could still draw I would book the feud between him and Brock to go longer until he finally overcame him with the Tombstone. Psychology in storylines = GOOD.

 

 

When you're armed with one finisher quite simply it becomes more difficult to put someone over while retaining your credibility. Even if you DO have multiples, care must be taken when booking so that they don't look to all be on par with one another and therefore universally weak. (See Jericho, Chris.) Also, care must be taken that the finishers are actually credible, otherwise you get scenarios like HHH finishing people off with a sleeper hold, which makes them look like jobbers not 'worthy' of a pedigree.

 

Of course bear in mind that this is the WWE we're talking about, and rich movesets seem to be their last concern. Also, the utilisation of multiple finishers in storyline purposes would take good booking, so that's the end of that idea.

[razazteca 0]

Booker T has about 4 finishers:

 

Bookend - Too bad only the Rock can do this move

 

Brisco Sunsetflip - I wish Booker T would use this more often and in tag team matches this would be perfect.

 

Axe Kick - I really don't like this one, but it fits the WWE style with his setup of BAM kick to mid-section then the AHHHHHHHHHHH war-cry and the finish.

 

Missle Dropkick - Could be used for near falls.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

raza, you forgot the Houston Hangover.

 

I'd like to see the wrestlers in WWE have more finishers. With the ban on head-dropping maneuvers, this would limit the amount of different moves one could use, but could also make the ones that are allowed to include a head-drop maneuver seem that much more badass. For example, I'll talk Kurt Angle.

 

Kurt has the Angle Slam and the AnkleLock. He hasn't won without either of them in any given match, and most matches are won with the AnkleLock, as the Angle Slam is a set-up for it. What if Kurt had a wildcard move? Say, a normal, everyday piledriver? Or perhaps a type of leglock, such as the NagataLock? Maybe a NagataLock while he has an AnkleLock on the OTHER leg? It would add more excitement to a match if he were to require to bust out more and more maneuvers as the time went on to try and win the match.

 

But, like you said, with the WWE style being as constrictive as it is, adding more finishers to a worker's repertoire probably won't happen anytime soon.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

They seem to be trying to get Jericho over with that Flashback move as well to his Walls of Jericho... I won't comment on the Lionsault as too many people roll out of the way.

[clean rob 0]

Angle's Heel Hook/ RR'03 AnkleLock is kind of a third finisher, being as it is an advanced version of his usual Ankle Lock. I like the way the move's been booked, as it's kind of like what you're talking about with Misawa's TD '91 - in the really big matches where the Ankle Lock just won't put 'em away, he busts it out, but the Ankle Lock is still a very credible finisher.

[deancoles 0]

If Jericho was allowed to use the liontamer he'd have a credible finisher.

[Guest croweater]

Liontamer is far superior to the walls of Jericho and looks much more painfull. Of course he can't use it, you wouldn't want Jericho to have credibility.

The one thing Jericho is lacking is a strong finisher at the moment. No one taps to the walls of Jericho and no one gets hit by the lionsault......... except seemingly in tag matches.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Just a thing...

 

Kurt Angle has two finishers, but one has been devalued (Angle Slam)

 

I feel he could add a third if he wanted...use the Rings of Saturn...call them the Olympic Rings.

 

Just my two cents.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I think Jericho can't use the Liontamer because most of the big guys in the WWE aren't flexible enough to take it.

 

EDIT: Jericho also has the Breakdown. Big show has the wheelboro suplex and the Final Cut. Albert has like 5 finishers. Kane uses the powerbomb on occasion. Hurricane had the Vertebraker. Lots of guys have multiple finishers, but most don't use them often/anymore.

[Guest BDC]

This is something I'd love to see. My efed character has about six moves that can realistically end a match and if one doesn't work, he goes to something else. Not a big deal, right?

 

Apparently it is. My biggest gripe is why the DDT is called a head dropping move when it can be done relatively safely. I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

My bigger gripe with the DDT is how it seems nobody knows how to sell it or deliver it properly anymore. It seems only RVD can sell it right...

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

my efed character is guilty of employing only one finisher

[NoCalMike 0]

I have been ranting on this very subject for a long time now, however I have just accepted that WWE is not WRESTLING DRIVEN. The fans (majority of course) are not there to see a ***** match. They ARE there because Rock, or HHH, or Austin etc...has some new catch phrase or some new funny he ALWAYS DOES in a match. WWE fans are programmed to believe that "kick-wham-stunner" is the greatest way to end a match no matter what.

 

You have to view WWE as a product that is there for spectacle, which sometimes produces good matches on the side, not the other way around, because if so, you mine as well not even watch WWE.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Here's a great counter to the stunner.... let him kick-wham, then as soon as he puts his leg out to stun, grab the leg, pull it in and suplex him out of his boots in a trapped suplex.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Here's a great counter to the stunner.... let him kick-wham, then as soon as he puts his leg out to stun, grab the leg, pull it in and suplex him out of his boots in a trapped suplex.

Or, catch his leg as he goes for the kick, and turn it into a submission.

 

Angle proved that theory could work.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

How many guys does the submission counter?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

How many guys does the submission counter?

Real life...I think only Angel.

 

E-Fed...I had my David Flair do it to Steve Austin once. And my David Flair is on par with a Ric Flair of the same age, if not slightly better.

 

Now, if only reality could match that...*sigh*

[Guest Askewniverse]

Big show has the wheelboro suplex and the Final Cut.

When did Big Show use a wheelbarrow suplex?

[razazteca 0]

But has Booker T ever used the Hangover in WWE?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

But has Booker T ever used the Hangover in WWE?

He used it against Show to win a match, I believe.

[J.B. Buzzkill 0]

He used it at 'Mania against HHH, too.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Big show has the wheelboro suplex and the Final Cut.

When did Big Show use a wheelbarrow suplex?

I think they're referring to the wheelbarrow powerbomb he's used before.

[haVoc 0]

Didn't he land right on Triple H's head?

[The Mandarin 0]

I have been ranting on this very subject for a long time now, however I have just accepted that WWE is not WRESTLING DRIVEN. The fans (majority of course) are not there to see a ***** match. They ARE there because Rock, or HHH, or Austin etc...has some new catch phrase or some new funny he ALWAYS DOES in a match. WWE fans are programmed to believe that "kick-wham-stunner" is the greatest way to end a match no matter what.

 

You have to view WWE as a product that is there for spectacle, which sometimes produces good matches on the side, not the other way around, because if so, you mine as well not even watch WWE.

WOW. That just summed up everything right there. I can't think of anything to add to that.

 

Nicely done.

[clean rob 0]

To the best of my knowledge, Booker T has used the Harlem/Housten Hangover only twice on WWE TV. Once as the finish to his match with Big Show at Vengeance '02 (when it popped the crowd huge) and once at WM XIX on HHH, where he fluffed it a bit and HHH kicked out (naturally).

[AndrewTS 0]

My bigger gripe with the DDT is how it seems nobody knows how to sell it or deliver it properly anymore. It seems only RVD can sell it right...

And Morely.

 

The second example, and more of an example of what NOT to do, is Austin/Angle, where Angle kicked out of the  STUNNER 3TIMES.

 

Actually, he fell out of the ring on the second one, getting some recovery time.

 

However, I get your point.

 

I have just accepted that WWE is not WRESTLING DRIVEN. The fans (majority of course) are not there to see a ***** match. They ARE there because Rock, or HHH, or Austin etc...has some new catch phrase or some new funny he ALWAYS DOES in a match.

 

HHH hasn't really been a draw, Rock's gone for now and Austin's basically retired.

 

I beg to differ with that belief as well. Marks can get into good matches if they care about the characters.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

My bigger gripe with the DDT is how it seems nobody knows how to sell it or deliver it properly anymore. It seems only RVD can sell it right...

Ever think maybe it's RVD that CAN'T sell it right? Morley knows how to sell it the head drop way if you're going to use it as such but RVD basically holds himself up on his head and flips over and it doesn't look like it even hurt. I've never been a fan of the version where you try and drop them on the top of their head. I'm more about the Chyna/Rock/Raven/Roberts variety.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Big show has the wheelboro suplex and the Final Cut.

When did Big Show use a wheelbarrow suplex?

He used it a while ago, like rigth after he came back. He used it before or during his use of the Final cut. And it looke more like a powerbomb into a reverse electric chair drop almost, since it was done the same way he does everything else- slowly;)

[Guest Askewniverse]

Big show has the wheelboro suplex and the Final Cut.

When did Big Show use a wheelbarrow suplex?

He used it a while ago, like rigth after he came back. He used it before or during his use of the Final cut. And it looke more like a powerbomb into a reverse electric chair drop almost, since it was done the same way he does everything else- slowly;)

Okay, I know what move you're talking about. It's called the Alley-Oop, but it isn't a wheelbarrow suplex. A wheelbarrow suplex is an entirely different move.

Edited November 30, 2003 by Askewniverse

[AndrewTS 0]

To the best of my knowledge, Booker T has used the Harlem/Housten Hangover only twice on WWE TV. Once as the finish to his match with Big Show at Vengeance '02 (when it popped the crowd huge) and once at WM XIX on HHH, where he fluffed it a bit and HHH kicked out (naturally).

Well, if he used it more often, it would fit the criteria for the SUPER FINISHER a la the Tiger Driver '91. That is, if it actually got the win each time it was used.