res37618 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 OK . . . in looking at the DVD calendar included with my No Mercy '03 DVD, it appears that WWE has changed the "Monday Night Wars" DVD to the "Rise and Fall of WCW". Now, assuming that the disc will have extra matches (and assuming it's only a one-disc release), what exactly will be included as "extras" for the DVD? Here's what I think: Hogan vs. Goldberg (Goldy wins WCW title) A match from the first WCW Nitro (either Flair/Sting or Hogan/Big Bubba) Sting vs. Hogan (Starrcade '97) Chris Benoit vs. Sid Vicious (Benoit wins vacant WCW title, leaves next day) Flair vs. Sting (last WCW Nitro) Not the world's greatest matches, but 5 matches which kinda truly fall into place when talking about the "Rise and Fall" of WCW. What do you guys think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JRE Report post Posted November 30, 2003 It'll start in March 2001. End in November 2001. That's all Realistically though. They'll use the Nash/Hogan finger-poke inncident as the "turning point" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Everyone seems to forget WCW existed before the fall of it. (Starrcade 97 I think) 1996 is going to a major rise obviously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Ideally, They HAVE to show a Cruiserweight Match becuase that was one of the key draws WCW had. I hope they include the WHOLE wcw history...not just the Nitro Era. I'd say make it a Two disc DVD...One with 6 hours of Matches and one that gives a history review with assorted promos and interviews with all the players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 It'll start in March 2001. End in November 2001. That's all Realistically though. They'll use the Nash/Hogan finger-poke inncident as the "turning point" Dude, use logic here. Hogan and Nash had absolutely nothing to do with WCW's downfall. It was, and always has been, that evil Canadian Bret Hart. He forced them to sign him for an unbelievable amount of money, and gave them back nothing in return. I mean, even Hulk Hogan said "He ruined the WCW, brother." If you can't trust Hogan, my god, who can you trust? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted November 30, 2003 It'll start in March 2001. End in November 2001. That's all Realistically though. They'll use the Nash/Hogan finger-poke inncident as the "turning point" Dude, use logic here. Hogan and Nash had absolutely nothing to do with WCW's downfall. It was, and always has been, that evil Canadian Bret Hart. He forced them to sign him for an unbelievable amount of money, and gave them back nothing in return. I mean, even Hulk Hogan said "He ruined the WCW, brother." If you can't trust Hogan, my god, who can you trust? I've never heard anybody involved with the WWF ever say anything close to that. Heck, Vince's assumption about it was, actually, dead-on balls accurate "Bret, they'll have NO clue what to do with you". WCW took the hottest star in the business and BURIED him completely in 2 months. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 It'll start in March 2001. End in November 2001. That's all Realistically though. They'll use the Nash/Hogan finger-poke inncident as the "turning point" Dude, use logic here. Hogan and Nash had absolutely nothing to do with WCW's downfall. It was, and always has been, that evil Canadian Bret Hart. He forced them to sign him for an unbelievable amount of money, and gave them back nothing in return. I mean, even Hulk Hogan said "He ruined the WCW, brother." If you can't trust Hogan, my god, who can you trust? I've never heard anybody involved with the WWF ever say anything close to that. Heck, Vince's assumption about it was, actually, dead-on balls accurate "Bret, they'll have NO clue what to do with you". WCW took the hottest star in the business and BURIED him completely in 2 months. -=Mike Obviously, you missed that episode of Confidential then. -=Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 (edited) I've never heard anybody involved with the WWF ever say anything close to that. Heck, Vince's assumption about it was, actually, dead-on balls accurate "Bret, they'll have NO clue what to do with you". WCW took the hottest star in the business and BURIED him completely in 2 months. -=Mike It was on Confidential--Bret was said to be the sole reason for the fall of WCW. Edited November 30, 2003 by AndrewTS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 They buried him the NIGHT he showed up. Why the wasted 5 weeks to bring him in just to interfere in the Biggest Match in WCW's History... He should have cut a promo that night...since Starcade 1997 was the biggest night in the company's history... Instead they stuck him with Flair for a couple months and then he floated around with the U.S title for a while and then he did nothing. It wasn't until Mid 1999 (post-Owen Might I add) that Russo (of all people) decided to do the right thing and Put BRET on top and have him run the show and sadly that lasted about 10 weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iliketurtles 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 WCW's usage of Bret is what really started the downfall from the company...they took the WWF's hottest star and literally made no use of him within weeks of his debut in the company. I'd say that was key...as well as the disaster of Hogan/Sting @ Starrcade 97. Both of those happening at the near same time is what started to kill it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenniumMan831 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Yeah, by 1997 the fans were sick and tired of the nWo. But they accepted it because they knew Sting vs. Hogan was a perfect fit for a MegaEvent like Starrcade. And they knew Sting would DESTROY Hogan and the nWo would fall apart at the seams as a result of it. Unfortunately, it never happened that way and the rest is history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 The Beginning: Ted Turner wants to destroy Vince so he buys "the old NWA". He brings over all the big stars "I heard that Ted Turner wanted to compete with McMahon; I told them they were nuts and I got out of there as fast as I could. You never want to compete with Vince." - Ric Flair The Rise: With the creations of Vince McMahon, the stolen ideas of Vince McMahon (Nitro), and Ted Turners Billions, WCW got successful. "I was watching RAW and it was so innovative and real; it just hit me, I have to steal that and use Ted Turners Billions to do so. That was Nitro..." - Eric Bischoff "He brought me and Scott over - and at that time we were the biggest names in the sport... We really didn't want to go, but the billions that Ted Turner had - we have families... how could any sane man resist? So we went over and I told Eric of this concept I heard Vince tell Pat Patterson... something about a New World Order... Eric liked that and voila... the NWO was born" - Kevin Nash "So for a few weeks WCW beat RAW in the ratings... I hated it there btw, it was never as good as the WWF or the WWE. But Ted Turners Billions kept me there, even though I longed for the warm embrace of the WWE" - Gene Oakerland The Fall: "So Bret Hart betrayed Vince by not doing the right thing for business and jumped over to WCW - we paid him so much money and didn't do nearly as good of a job as Vince did with him... that was the real end of WCW... the big contracts... bret hart... that was it" - Eric Bischoff "Everything I said about WCW and the NWA.. it was all a lie. That final Nitro... a lie...In my heart "WCW" meant the "WWF" or the "WWE"... WCW was always second best." - Ric Flair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Michael Buffer killed WCW. Oh, and breaking up the Nitro Girls didn't help either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerangedHermit 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 The Beginning: Ted Turner wants to destroy Vince so he buys "the old NWA". He brings over all the big stars "I heard that Ted Turner wanted to compete with McMahon; I told them they were nuts and I got out of there as fast as I could. You never want to compete with Vince." - Ric Flair The Rise: With the creations of Vince McMahon, the stolen ideas of Vince McMahon (Nitro), and Ted Turners Billions, WCW got successful. "I was watching RAW and it was so innovative and real; it just hit me, I have to steal that and use Ted Turners Billions to do so. That was Nitro..." - Eric Bischoff "He brought me and Scott over - and at that time we were the biggest names in the sport... We really didn't want to go, but the billions that Ted Turner had - we have families... how could any sane man resist? So we went over and I told Eric of this concept I heard Vince tell Pat Patterson... something about a New World Order... Eric liked that and voila... the NWO was born" - Kevin Nash "So for a few weeks WCW beat RAW in the ratings... I hated it there btw, it was never as good as the WWF or the WWE. But Ted Turners Billions kept me there, even though I longed for the warm embrace of the WWE" - Gene Oakerland The Fall: "So Bret Hart betrayed Vince by not doing the right thing for business and jumped over to WCW - we paid him so much money and didn't do nearly as good of a job as Vince did with him... that was the real end of WCW... the big contracts... bret hart... that was it" - Eric Bischoff "Everything I said about WCW and the NWA.. it was all a lie. That final Nitro... a lie...In my heart "WCW" meant the "WWF" or the "WWE"... WCW was always second best." - Ric Flair And screw Lex Luger and Jeff Jarrett too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 (edited) Hogan/Sting wasn't a diaster as far as the match was...No one considers Hogan/Andre a "diaster". But yeah...Putting Hogan over was the dumbest thing ever. What SHOULD have been done is this... Sting beats Hogan straight Up via Deathlock... Bret cuts a Promo and says that he's tired of kicking the crap out of the little fish...he wants the big fish and that's what WCW is. Sting should have gone and hunt down Lex Luger or Randy Savage, his two friends that betrayed him a year ago and avenge that... Hogan should have cried the blues about losing to sting and berated The N.W.O and Nash and Hall should have gone "screw you" and left and then Hogan simply should have said "You're leaving me?" and gone "Fine, Hollywood never needed you in the first place or ANY of you!" (pointing to the fans)... Bret comes out...Laughs and makes fun of Hogan losing at Starrcade and mentions that all his career he's made a name for beating the best in the game but He never could get Hogan in the ring one on one and if Hogan was a REAL man...He'd fight Hart. Hogan does the coward act and says no... Bret taunts him for a couple weeks until Hogan gives in. Sting goes over Lex Luger or Randy Savage (which ever was a heel at the time) at Souled Out... Hart beats Hogan as well...Hogan leaves for a few months. Bret says all he wants now is The Champion...Sting has no problem but The Nature Boy has a problem with that! Flair with the reformed Horsemen (Benoit, Melenko and Anyone but Mongo) attack Bret until Sting Makes the Save. Superbrawl is booked for a Tag Team Match Bret and Sting Vs Flair and Benoit. Flair and Benoit win via heel tactics... Bret and Flair agree to have a #1 contenders match at UnCensored...while Sting still has unfinished business with Kevin Nash. Bret and Ric have a 30 minute **** classic with Bret going over... Sting handles Nash to win. Bret and Sting are on the path but to have the HUGE showdown...they wait until Bash at the Beach... So they have The Horsemen Attack Bret and take him out for a Month... Sting decides to gather up a couple buddies and have a Good Old fashioned War Games at Slamboree (Sting, Luger, Steiners) Vs the Horsemen. Sting's team win when Melenko taps to the Deathlock... as Flair (whom ran scared) gets clobbered by a returning Bret Hart. at Spring Stampede...Hart forgoes his title match to get his hands on Benoit...the man who broke his ankle. That allows Flair to get a shot at Sting... Benoit loses to Bret in a Gem...Sting loses to Flair thanks to heel actions when bret tried to help sting fight off the horsemen but accidently nailed Sting with the chair... Bret faces Sting in a Cage Match... while Flair and Benoit face the Steiners (whom never turned)... Bret wins clean over Sting...Flair wins... The match is booked...Bret Hart Vs Ric Flair for the WCW Title. Bret Hart wins clean. At this point Bret had a LONG list of people to face... Savage The other Horsemen Luger Hall Nash DDP Giant Jericho Eddy ... Edited November 30, 2003 by Choken One Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 (edited) The rise would be anything involving Flair and the 4 Horseman. The fall would be Hogan showing up and getting the title. The rise would be the luchadores making the undercard something to watch. The fall would be 3 of the best luchadores (Mysterio, Juvi, Psicosis) losing their mask. The rise would be Sting at the 1st Clash of Champions. The fall would be the Crow gimmick. Edited November 30, 2003 by razazteca Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Everyone seems to forget WCW existed before the fall of it. (Starrcade 97 I think) 1996 is going to a major rise obviously. Which is why it's called the rise and fall of WCW.. not the life and times of WCW. The "Rise" part would be when they started to gain momentum and became #1... which wasn't until 96. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 "And screw Lex Luger and Jeff Jarrett too." WHO? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Could they legally show anything having to do with David Arquette? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 why wouldn't they? It Happened on WCW tv. Like David Arquette is gonna sue or anything... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jester 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I would be VERY surprised if they included the Fingerpoke of Doom and cited it as one of the milestones on the way to WCW's collapse. Even though it was. Kevin Nash is still under contract with WWE. And although he hasn't done much more than eat Cheetos and rehab, there is NO WAY they are going to lay any of the blame on somebody on their payroll. They will probably spare Hogan too, in order not to sour him on his eventual return. Bret Hart, on the other hand, is fair game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 How you figure that when Vince is sucking Bret's Cock to get him to come back at Mania... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommytomlin 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 The rise would be Sting at the 1st Clash of Champions. The fall would be the Crow gimmick. Apart from the Starrcade mess which has already been talked about, how can Sting's most successful run ever as the ultimate megaface during WCW's most successful year be called a 'fall'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Correct... It was that character that gave WCW it's biggest storyline of all time as far as ratings go... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 The rise would be Sting at the 1st Clash of Champions. The fall would be the Crow gimmick. Apart from the Starrcade mess which has already been talked about, how can Sting's most successful run ever as the ultimate megaface during WCW's most successful year be called a 'fall'? Personal opinion and the Sting vs Vampiro stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 30, 2003 That wasn't really "THE CROW" sting... That was Sting refusing to do a costume change...Total different character... The CROW sting was the 96-97 run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Van Dam Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Hogan/Sting wasn't a diaster as far as the match was...No one considers Hogan/Andre a "diaster". But yeah...Putting Hogan over was the dumbest thing ever. What SHOULD have been done is this... Sting beats Hogan straight Up via Deathlock... Bret cuts a Promo and says that he's tired of kicking the crap out of the little fish...he wants the big fish and that's what WCW is. Sting should have gone and hunt down Lex Luger or Randy Savage, his two friends that betrayed him a year ago and avenge that... Hogan should have cried the blues about losing to sting and berated The N.W.O and Nash and Hall should have gone "screw you" and left and then Hogan simply should have said "You're leaving me?" and gone "Fine, Hollywood never needed you in the first place or ANY of you!" (pointing to the fans)... Bret comes out...Laughs and makes fun of Hogan losing at Starrcade and mentions that all his career he's made a name for beating the best in the game but He never could get Hogan in the ring one on one and if Hogan was a REAL man...He'd fight Hart. Hogan does the coward act and says no... Bret taunts him for a couple weeks until Hogan gives in. Sting goes over Lex Luger or Randy Savage (which ever was a heel at the time) at Souled Out... Hart beats Hogan as well...Hogan leaves for a few months. Bret says all he wants now is The Champion...Sting has no problem but The Nature Boy has a problem with that! Flair with the reformed Horsemen (Benoit, Melenko and Anyone but Mongo) attack Bret until Sting Makes the Save. Superbrawl is booked for a Tag Team Match Bret and Sting Vs Flair and Benoit. Flair and Benoit win via heel tactics... Bret and Flair agree to have a #1 contenders match at UnCensored...while Sting still has unfinished business with Kevin Nash. Bret and Ric have a 30 minute **** classic with Bret going over... Sting handles Nash to win. Bret and Sting are on the path but to have the HUGE showdown...they wait until Bash at the Beach... So they have The Horsemen Attack Bret and take him out for a Month... Sting decides to gather up a couple buddies and have a Good Old fashioned War Games at Slamboree (Sting, Luger, Steiners) Vs the Horsemen. Sting's team win when Melenko taps to the Deathlock... as Flair (whom ran scared) gets clobbered by a returning Bret Hart. at Spring Stampede...Hart forgoes his title match to get his hands on Benoit...the man who broke his ankle. That allows Flair to get a shot at Sting... Benoit loses to Bret in a Gem...Sting loses to Flair thanks to heel actions when bret tried to help sting fight off the horsemen but accidently nailed Sting with the chair... Bret faces Sting in a Cage Match... while Flair and Benoit face the Steiners (whom never turned)... Bret wins clean over Sting...Flair wins... The match is booked...Bret Hart Vs Ric Flair for the WCW Title. Bret Hart wins clean. At this point Bret had a LONG list of people to face... Savage The other Horsemen Luger Hall Nash DDP Giant Jericho Eddy ... Good job, that would of been a kick ass year for wcw if that happened Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerangedHermit 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 "And screw Lex Luger and Jeff Jarrett too." WHO? What Vince McMahon would say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenniumMan831 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 "And screw Lex Luger and Jeff Jarrett too." WHO? I think you're thinking of Jim Neidhart. He wasn't responsible for the fall of WCW, but he sure didn't help. People just seemed to tune out when he was on . . . probably due to the ill advised goatee. Bah da . . . dummmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe2k5 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 The easiest target in the fall of WCW is Vince Russo, because he was the fall of WCW. '99 was actually a great year wrestling wise for WCW, but then in '00 they brought in Vince Russo and everything fell apart. I'm surprised there isn't anybody mentioning Russo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
