Slayer 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Since it got no-sold in the metal poll thread (though it was off topic, I admit), and I want some feedback, by gawd, here we go again What do you all think of the existence of the IMC (like the IWC)? I've been on the 'net for five years and I've definitely seem some rampant, restated opinions by internet metal fans that run along the same lines as the IWC... Consider the following analogies (not all perfect, mind you) IWC -> IMC equivalent Hosses -> Nu-metal (both hated by respective communities) Triple H -> Fred Durst (both extremely hated by respective communities) Technical wrestlers -> Power metal (choice groups for respective communities, more accessible to relative mainstream) Puroresu -> Death/Black metal (more of a niche audience, not quite as visible) Benoit -> Jon Schafer? (not sure on this one, namely as to who the most beloved sub-mainstream metal man would be) I may add some more as we go on. Feel free to comment or add your own Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Better analogies would be... Hosses -> Nu-Metal I agree on this one, since hosses usually don't WRESTLE at all, much like nu-metal bands very, VERY rarely play anything related to actual metal music. However, some hosses can go, as some nu-metal bands are very borderline metal (System Of A Down and Disturbed, primarily). HHH -> Metallica Both used to be GREAT for a while, but then took a leave of absence and came back with work that their hardcore fans hated, and their casual fans knew wasn't good. They've also done some things that fans of their respective professions have loathed (HHH's politics, Metallica's various lawsuits and St. Anger). Technical wrestlers -> Death metal The majority of the IWC loves technical wrestlers, just as the majority of the IMC loves death metal. Puroresu -> Power metal More of a niche, and definitely displays some better understanding of how their artform truly works (puro fans are usually longtime fans that understand in-depth psychology more, while power metal fans tend to know a LOT about music theory and such). Both are also hard to get into at first, but became great as you delve further into it. Benoit -> Zakk Wylde Probably the best mainstream performer of their respective professions. While both are overrated, and will be called such by nearly everybody at least once, there's something undeniably great about both. Benoit's in-ring style is a technical masterpiece, and Wylde's solo'ing abilities and songwriting skills make your average metalhead sit back and go "fuck that's good." Hardcore/Garbage wrestling -> Thrash metal While nobody likes to admit that putting on a good hardcore/garbage match takes a certain kind of talent, most of the IMC won't admit that a good thrash metal band has talent. Aside from a few select performers in this niche (Raven in hardcore/garbage wrestling, and Slayer in thrash), your average IWC'er/IMC'er will not admit that they like the style. Indy wrestling -> Black metal Both are underground, and both take some getting used to. "When it rains, it pours" best describes both, as a great indy match is undeniably great, but many are just very bland. A great black metal band is undeniably so, but many are also just very bland. Hulk Hogan -> Ozzy Osbourne Both need to retire for good, and probably never will. Ric Flair -> Iron Maiden They've always been great, save for a short period of time, and probably always will be to some extent. Even their bad work is still better than 80% of most others' work, and you can understand some of their negative sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I'd say Fred Durst is more of the Sean Waltman (Post 99 Sean Waltman of course) of metal. Both of their fan bases are almost non-existant and consist of 13 year old posers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I would actually say that the new Iron Maiden album is better than 80% of their OWN stuff. And yes, I HAVE heard all the albums, including that includes the pre-Dickinson stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Excellent analogies Mr. Lazarus. I didn't really think about HHH -> Metallica connection... But who would Fred Durst be? I can only halfway agree with the Waltman comparison by KOU... but to the IMC, Durst is the anti-christ... no, wait, by the IMC that's a good thing... well, he's just really hated by the IMC Only thing I'm still not quite sold on is the switch up of technical/puro and power/death, since it seems to me that power metal is the choice genre of choice of the IMC, given how many power metal bands (even the not-so-great ones) get love as opposed to death. That's just my opinion though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Where do you go? Because most of the places I've been to talk metal have been all gaga over death bands, and been like "fuck that noise" for power bands. And Fred Durst is...hmmm...think of somebody that people call a wrestler, but isn't at all, and is INCREDIBLY hated by the IWC...because that's who Fred would be... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest macheteofodin Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Goldberg = Fred Durst?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Where do you go? Because most of the places I've been to talk metal have been all gaga over death bands, and been like "fuck that noise" for power bands. My two primary sites are Metal Reviews and Metal Rules, both of which tend to delineate mostly to power metal Any sites you can recommend, my metal brother? Also, in Metal Reviews favor, they do try to cover some of the relatively better nu-metal/hardcore bands, but tend to get shit on by readers whenever they do so (this could be the case of the vocal minority though, but it's still very vocal) And Fred Durst is...hmmm...think of somebody that people call a wrestler, but isn't at all, and is INCREDIBLY hated by the IWC...because that's who Fred would be... Stephanie? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Baron 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I like your analogy on the comparison between Ric Flair and Iron Maiden Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hogan Made Wrestling 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 And Fred Durst is...hmmm...think of somebody that people call a wrestler, but isn't at all, and is INCREDIBLY hated by the IWC...because that's who Fred would be... Vince Russo? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I gotta agree with the Vince Russo comparison. Hated by 99% of the audience, but has a miniscule fanbase that's very vocal (and annoying). Both known for making outrageous and retarted statements better suited for 12 year olds than grown men Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Okay then. Vince Russo -> Fred Durst Vince Russo is not a wrestler, and is linked to wrestling by those that do not know any better. Fred Durst is not in a metal band, and never has been and never will be, yet is linked to metal by those that do not know any better. Both are hated EXTREMELY by their respective "audiences," and the few fans they have are outrageous fanatics that everybody wants to silence via piano wire. And my Flair/Maiden comparison is probably the best thing I've said since coming to TSM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 This could be interesting as we analogize wrestlers and artists/bands Who would be Malmsteen (extremely talented, but arrogant asshole)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hogan Made Wrestling 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 This could be interesting as we analogize wrestlers and artists/bands Who would be Malmsteen (extremely talented, but arrogant asshole)? Shawn Michaels? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 (edited) This could be interesting as we analogize wrestlers and artists/bands Who would be Malmsteen (extremely talented, but arrogant asshole)? Shawn Michaels? I like that one and Laz's Flair/Maiden was a good comparison. Here's mine... Terry Funk->Motorhead. Both have been around forever, show no signs of going away anytime soon, have influenced many directly/indirectly and are overlooked by many undedicate fans. Also, both are willing to hit the biggest and smallest of venues, and definitely have a love for their business. Edited December 1, 2003 by Steviekick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Life Of Agony (you knew this was coming)= Magnum T.A Both came out strong and gained a strong following but each suffered setbacks (Injuries and Car Accident and Studio conflicts)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 It makes sense to me. Here's another one I just thought of... KISS -> Hulk Hogan While neither of them necessarily changed their respective fields and their talent is debatable, they both were amazing draws and have influenced many future talents. Both had many kids as fans, and have large masses of fans, the KISS army and the Hulkamaniacs. And both keep saying they are going to retire, but someone gives them a financial figure that they just can't refuse. As far as IWC/IMC is concerned, both never existed, effected the business, and are just nostalgia acts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Linkin Park=Test. um. They suck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Actually, Linkin Park = Goldberg To purists, neither has any talent and have only gotten big thanks to marketing/promotion, as well as stupid fans. As for Test = Kataklysm Both vanilla and from Canada. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Damn...Can I still say they suck? SK you are NAILING these. Here's a couple bands for you Disturbed Creed Me? I'm gonna say Brock for Disturbed..."Hosses" that have talent for metal but don't show it... Creed? Randy Orton...Shoved down our throats and are cocky as fuck for no reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hogan Made Wrestling 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Van Halen = nWo Hollywood? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Any sites you can recommend, my metal brother? relapse.com grindy grindy grindy. Benoit=Dave Lombardo. Just about everyone into wrasslin n' metyl knows who they are, they're both really goddamn good at what they do, but have never been the top dog hot shit icon. Technically proficient, too. Zakk's more of a..Kurt Angle. Famous and all, but not quite "legendary" in a Hulk Hogan, Ozzy Osbourne, Ric Flair, Iron Maiden kind of way. As for Power Metal being the more "technically in-depth" and proficient of myriad metal genres, disagreed. I tend to lean towards the nutcase speed demons like Nile that win out by the magnitude of the riffs. Yeah, those guys in Maiden can all rip the collective face off of red china, and move on to the subcontinent, but they've never made me go "Goddamn man...go!" Like when I hear some Flo Mounier precision blasting into an impossible breakdown, running a full rack of symbols like he has extra arms. I will concede though, that the dearth of lousy porn n gore bands like 6FU, Nunslaughter (even though I like them), and say..Lividity, brings brutal death down a notch, but no more than Helloween and Stratovarious do for power metal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLAGIARISM! 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I definitely second KISS = Hogan. In like, every possible way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Owen Hart = Criss Oliva Both had notable brothers, were extremely talented, died tragically and weren't truly recognized until after death Either that or Randy Rhoads, but for Rhoads I'd pick someone more main event-ish who tragically died young Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 The problem with many of the comparisons (KISS->Hogan, Linkin->Goldberg, etc.) is that the bands are being compared to people that ARE professional wrestlers, but just aren't good ones, whereas the bands themselves are NOT metal. Besides, Hogan->Ozzy would be a better comparison. Both were never really that great, but got massive amounts of media attention due to a shitload of charisma. They were always carried (Hogan by his opponents and Savage, Ozzy by Tony and then Randy and then Zakk), and are so pathetic to watch these days it's sad. And Agent, from an elitist, Berkley perspective, power metal is better music than death, if only because it's heavy on harmony and is, at many times, just classical music played on electric instruments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Baron 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 Death Metal -> Cruiserweights While playing fast the main thing, some Death Metal and some Cruiserweights are very technical, and precision is very key. Some bands show differenet characteristcs, like melody, like cruiserweights can show some power as well, which is a rarity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 ^Better point than I or Agent could make. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brocklock 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 What would Shadows Fall, Megadeth, and Pantera equal. I can't think of anyone for Megadeth or Mustaine in general, Shadows Fall could be like a rising indy superstar that is really fast and could be a legend in a few years. Maybe A.J. Styles. Pantera could be like Austin as in being around for about 10 to 13 years, kicking ass, being rednecks, drinking beers and being legends. At least in my mind they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nighthawk 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 Austin and Pantera also used to have some fairly ridiculous gimmicks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brocklock 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 Austin and Pantera also used to have some fairly ridiculous gimmicks. That is a pretty good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
