chaosrage Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 When Benoit returned he wasn't brought back in a big PPV comeback match that constantly focused on his neck and the "will he be able to what he used to?" stuff that Michaels had leading into SummerSlam. Benoit was brought back with little attention to his injury and wasn't constantly referred to as a "vulnerable cripple", but the same tough technical guy that he'd been before. Now, if Benoit were to wrestle after having his neck worked over and over only to hit the swandive and do stuff that would generally put a lot of pressure on the neck (such as bridges etc etc) then I would classify that as bad selling. The story going in the match was that he might be a vulnerable cripple. But that's not the story OF the match. The point of "no selling" in the second half was that he ISN'T a cripple. His back really wasn't as bad anyone thought, including himself. He was the same resilient athletic guy that he was before. The stuff HHH did hurt him but it didn't cripple him. And you can do a kip up with a really hurt back because of adrenaline. Uh oh, there's that word again. See WM14.
Guest Monday Night Jericho Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 So that means that his back is still bad to begin with, and when HHH worked it over with some heavy spots that Michaels sold the hell out of on impact (thus effectively making the big no sell later look even more stupid). Then all of a sudden because of an adrenaline rush he becomes super human and the back all of a sudden doesn't affect him anymore? Not only did he do the kip up but he also danced across the ring, where-as at WM14 the back wasn't a centre issue of the match like SS, and when he did it there was an obvious look of pain on his face (not to mention he probably took a ton of painkillers before the match). He didn't just no sell it with the kip up *and* dancing; but also didn't hold it once in pain after that spot. Oh yeah, and when he was in control his offence sucked. There is a difference between resilience and doing stuff that you couldn't physically do.
Guest BionicRedneck Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 yet shit on Keller for giving ***** to Lesnar/Angle? Yeah. Let's shit on him for being such a moron. The SummerSlam match was crap. It was crap long before Shawn did his no-selling comeback. Shawn, coming back from retirement, to take on his arch enemy. The man who betrayed him, his former best friend. A man who he hates. He enters the ring...........and.........he dances, with a big smile on his face.....then he acts all goofy, and already I'm questioning "why?". There is about a 5 minute period when this match was enjoyable for me, and that was when HHH first starting working the bad. At least that showed some direction. But, other than that it's basically garbage, in more ways than one. There are times when NOTHING happens, HHH stalls or simply busts out prop shots because there is nothing else to do. Of course, they occasionally do a contrived spot (like Shawn running around the entire ring to do a bulldog on some steps) to pop the crowd, and bore the shit outta me. Then there is the superman comeback, the highspots and the lack of selling, and that's what it is. No-selling from Shawn. Even if we use the Mania example. Yep, Shawn could kip-up at WM14, with his bad back, but at least most of the time he grimaced, or at least look somewhat in pain. Here there is nothing. When he makes his comeback, not only is his back fine, but he's not tired whatsoever. He basically no-sells the entire match. Without the hot crowd and the fact that this was Shawn's comeback match, everyone would have shit on it.
Guest Choken One Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 yet shit on Keller for giving ***** to Lesnar/Angle? Yeah. Let's shit on him for being such a moron. The SummerSlam match was crap. It was crap long before Shawn did his no-selling comeback. Shawn, coming back from retirement, to take on his arch enemy. The man who betrayed him, his former best friend. A man who he hates. He enters the ring...........and.........he dances, with a big smile on his face.....then he acts all goofy, and already I'm questioning "why?". Because it was 4 years since he last performed and he happy all of his hard work to back in shape were finally paying off and the fans didn't forget him?
Guest BionicRedneck Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 yet shit on Keller for giving ***** to Lesnar/Angle? Yeah. Let's shit on him for being such a moron. The SummerSlam match was crap. It was crap long before Shawn did his no-selling comeback. Shawn, coming back from retirement, to take on his arch enemy. The man who betrayed him, his former best friend. A man who he hates. He enters the ring...........and.........he dances, with a big smile on his face.....then he acts all goofy, and already I'm questioning "why?". Because it was 4 years since he last performed and he happy all of his hard work to back in shape were finally paying off and the fans didn't forget him? Yeah, it really puts over how serious the situation is supposed to be, doesn't it? Remember when Shawn fought Diesel and he walked to the ring all determined and shit? That would have worked much better here.
Betty Houle Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Without the hot crowd and the fact that this was Shawn's comeback match, everyone would have shit on it. That's true; everyone shits all over everything. Damn good match though!
eirejmcmahon Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Remember when Shawn fought Diesel and he walked to the ring all determined and shit? That would have worked much better here. But part of the reason behind the match was to show that he was still the showstopper - it played to the story that he was his same old self after all those years.
Guest BionicRedneck Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Remember when Shawn fought Diesel and he walked to the ring all determined and shit? That would have worked much better here. But part of the reason behind the match was to show that he was still the showstopper - it played to the story that he was his same old self after all those years. Riiiiiight....after he said he wasn't the old HBK anymore. The reason behind the match was to get revenge against HHH.
Guest HELLVIEW Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 I don't think you can say that the match would have sucked without the heat, the dramatic comeback, etc. because those are all such essential elements to a great match in North America.
Guest BionicRedneck Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 I don't think you can say that the match would have sucked without the heat, the dramatic comeback, etc. because those are all such essential elements to a great match in North America. Nice one. Nobody said that.
Lord of The Curry Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Wow, that was quick. Who pulled the plug?
Zack Malibu Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Wow, that was quick. Who pulled the plug? It was a collaborative effort of Bob Barron's keen detection sense, and my mod powers. We put the bitch to rest.
chaosrage Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 So that means that his back is still bad to begin with, and when HHH worked it over with some heavy spots that Michaels sold the hell out of on impact (thus effectively making the big no sell later look even more stupid). That's the thing, his back wasn't bad to begin with. He just didn't know it until the middle of the match where he was making a comeback after taking all of HHH's punishment and he wasn't in much pain. The proof is in how he won the world title 3 months later and he can work a regular schedule now. He didn't have a bad back. After WM14, he had to retire. He sold the hell out of it? Well yeah if someone drives their knee into your back its going to hurt like hell. But it will wear off, it won't cripple you or make you stay down. Then all of a sudden because of an adrenaline rush he becomes super human and the back all of a sudden doesn't affect him anymore? Yes, that's sorta what adrenaline does.
chaosrage Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Wow, that was quick. Who pulled the plug? It was a collaborative effort of Bob Barron's keen detection sense, and my mod powers. We put the bitch to rest. Burn...
Guest Monday Night Jericho Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 That's the thing, his back wasn't bad to begin with. Wow, then he must have retired because his hair loss was bothering him... He just didn't know it until the middle of the match where he was making a comeback after taking all of HHH's punishment and he wasn't in much pain. He didn't know? So it's out of the blue? For instance, he's on his back screaming acting like he's never going to walk again only to kip up and dance a few short moments later? He sold the hell out of it? Well yeah if someone drives their knee into your back its going to hurt like hell. But it will wear off, it won't cripple you or make you stay down. It will affect you, especially the amount of pressure that HHH was putting on the back (although in reality all of the bumps were protected). I'm repeating myself here, Michaels back was in a weakened state as he was going into the match and it can be told when he received the first back-breaker and his overly dramatic selling of it. In essence, the back breaker is supposed to be a painful move but in a situation where the back has previously been untouched, and as you said "OK"... then he surely oversold the fuck out of it. The proof is in how he won the world title 3 months later and he can work a regular schedule now. He didn't have a bad back. He said he would be returning for only one or two matches when he came back last summer. It was hyped that at SS he'd come back one more time just to "fight" and get his revenge on his friend. After that he stayed, who knows why but at the time that was unforeseen as he would constantly make remarks like "I have nothing let to prove" etc etc. Yes, that's sorta what adrenaline does. If you have two broken legs and get an adrenaline rush does that mean that you could pull of successful dropkick?
Guest Coffey Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 If you have two broken legs and get an adrenaline rush does that mean that you could pull of successful dropkick? I could.
Gert T Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 If Bobby Heenan's wrestled with a 113 degree fever, I gotta believe someone could throw a dropkick with two broken legs!!
2GOLD Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 If Bobby Heenan's wrestled with a 113 degree fever, I gotta believe someone could throw a dropkick with two broken legs!! I'm pretty sure if you go over 108 you are basically dead. I think. I know when my temp reached 105, I was not moving even if Tyra Banks had walked in with nothing on but a smile.
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