Jump to content
TSM Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Damaramu

The Heisman trophy........

Recommended Posts

Guest Flyboy

Jesus Christ. Calm down, JR. Why doesn't Jason White deserve to win the Heisman? To quote me from SNKT,

 

The award is for the best player in college football.. not the best player on the best TEAM in the country.

 

Jason White isn't the best player in the country. Hell, he may not even be in the top seven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Flyboy
Just give it to one of the Miami Hurricane players who will be All-Pro players next year.

*cough*SeanTaylor*cough*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mel Kiper is a college football *cough*genius*cough* and he says 5 could be 1st rounders. But of course the Heisman Trophy means nothin in the NFL unless you want to be the most over qualified bench warmer in the league or a clipboard jockey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Flyboy

Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Vince Wilfork, D.J. Williams... that's four. At least we all know who the best RB in the country is...

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

He goes to VT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jesus Christ.  Calm down, JR.  Why doesn't Jason White deserve to win the Heisman?  To quote me from SNKT,

 

The award is for the best player in college football.. not the best player on the best TEAM in the country.

 

Jason White isn't the best player in the country. Hell, he may not even be in the top seven.

How do you know what my name is?

 

 

Anyways........he's proven that he's the best player in college football. Actually it could've gone to any of the 4 and been in the right place. Jason White posted the best stats of any QB in the country and he did it while having to change his normal style. Plus he was that thing that turned OU's offense into a machine. Before they had a pretty good offense but a killer defense. He turned the offense killer as well.

I don't see how he's not one of the best, if not the best college football player.

 

And wait? OU is suddenly the best team? But I thought according to the AP poll(which many here SWEAR by) they are the 3rd best team.

 

And don't give me that crap about White only being good b/c of his team. You could've stuck him anywhere else in the country and he would've posted the same numbers.

 

 

And the Heisman may mean nothing in the NFL but I'm sure it means a lot to the players that win it. People sit there and diminish it all day and talk about how it's a joke but I gurantee you that it's not a joke to those finalists or the guy that accepts it at the end of the day. Hell I'm sure you'd piss your pants if you were awarded it. And don't say you wouldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no probs with White winning the Heisman. Fitzgerald was young so I knew he wasn't going to get it, Manning is still highly overrated in my mind from the games I saw (saw three and he was average at best), and Perry was maybe the third best back in the country.

 

I'm REALLY curious to see what the NFL thinks of Jason White though. So far, he sounds like he's being treated as the fourth or fifth best QB entering the draft this season.

 

We could have another Charlie Ward/ Eric Crouch situation on our hands if the NFL scouts don't start looking at White.

 

Anyone else thinking maybe the Heisman really isn't a big deal award anymore? Like the BCS little glass football?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he'll make it in the NFL because of his knees. Even if he was drafted the coaches wouldn't have faith that he'd be able to hold up physically.

Hell the knee injuries were the blessing that gave him the Heisman. If he hadn't hurt himself he would've never had to reinvent himself and probably wouldn't be as good as he is today.

 

But I think he should take the Heisman and understand that he is the best player in College Football this year and just retire from football. He should use that degree he's getting for good use. Because I really don't forsee a future for him in the NFL with the shape his knees are in. No coach would have faith to put him in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think he'll make it in the NFL because of his knees. Even if he was drafted the coaches wouldn't have faith that he'd be able to hold up physically.

Hell the knee injuries were the blessing that gave him the Heisman. If he hadn't hurt himself he would've never had to reinvent himself and probably wouldn't be as good as he is today.

 

But I think he should take the Heisman and understand that he is the best player in College Football this year and just retire from football. He should use that degree he's getting for good use. Because I really don't forsee a future for him in the NFL with the shape his knees are in. No coach would have faith to put him in.

 

But doesn't that just de-value the Heisman more if the winner can't play in the NFL?

 

The Heisman has NOT had a good run lately and really the last stand could be Carson Palmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jesus Christ. Calm down, JR. Why doesn't Jason White deserve to win the Heisman? To quote me from SNKT,

 

The award is for the best player in college football.. not the best player on the best TEAM in the country.

 

Jason White isn't the best player in the country. Hell, he may not even be in the top seven.

It's not for the best player in the country. It's never been given to the best player in the country. It's given to the player of the year, which in most cases happens to play for one of the best teams. Which is what it should be, because their putting up numbers in games that really matter.

If someone wants to make a case for any off the other finalists than fine. I'm a fan of Fitzgerald. I'v followed him since his Sophmore season in High School. He would of been just has deserving as White. Same goes for Manning, and Perry. What bothers me, is this non-sense that White didn't deserve the award. Look at his numbers, look at what his team did. Despite what some people think, OU didn't have has great of offensive talent has some people say they had. People can't overlook the importance, White had on OU this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think he'll make it in the NFL because of his knees. Even if he was drafted the coaches wouldn't have faith that he'd be able to hold up physically.

Hell the knee injuries were the blessing that gave him the Heisman. If he hadn't hurt himself he would've never had to reinvent himself and probably wouldn't be as good as he is today.

 

But I think he should take the Heisman and understand that he is the best player in College Football this year and just retire from football. He should use that degree he's getting for good use. Because I really don't forsee a future for him in the NFL with the shape his knees are in. No coach would have faith to put him in.

 

But doesn't that just de-value the Heisman more if the winner can't play in the NFL?

 

The Heisman has NOT had a good run lately and really the last stand could be Carson Palmer.

I hate hearing about how so many, Heisman winners suck in the NFL. So what. It's for the college player of the year, not who will make the best NFL player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it doesn't. He had the most impressive season in college football.

I think people should quit thinking of it as a "He's going to the NFL" award and think of it more as a "We recognize the accomplishments you've made this year in college football."

People are trying to treat it like a stepping stone to the NFL which it's not. It's an award to recognize what you've done this year.

White's done the most this year thus he deserves it.

And he could go to the NFL but I think it'd be pointless unless he gets a coach that has faith in him and wants to stick him out there. I mean he's running a huge risk with his knees. But who knows....they might not even be a factor, they weren't this year. He could get out there and start throwing bullets left and right in the NFL and scoring 2-5 TD's a game. You never know. His knees are just a big "if" factor.

The thing is the injury is what allowed him to become what he is today and to become the best player in college football this year. However it's probably also what ruined his NFL chances. It's a tradeoff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If people are saying Jason White did not deserve this award with the numbers he put up while Chris Perry did, I have some issues.

 

White was easily one of the top five players in the country. I say that with a dislike for the respect the Big 12 gets. I saw White play a few times and he looked much more impressive to me than Manning did.

 

If Fitzgerald doesn't enter the draft (and I can't remember if he is even eligible) then it'll be between him, Roethberger, Sproles (if he returns), and probably Chris Rix I would say since he is on Florida St and is a QB and a senior which means he is automatically eligible.

 

But Jason White and Fitzgerald were very much the front runners and I had no problem with either man winning the award. I have a small problem with the hit the Heisman again takes but that is the fault of the voters who just love their Jason White mug, Larry Fitzgerald t-shirt, Eli Manning hat, and Chris Perry parka.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If people are saying Jason White did not deserve this award with the numbers he put up while Chris Perry did, I have some issues.

 

White was easily one of the top five players in the country. I say that with a dislike for the respect the Big 12 gets. I saw White play a few times and he looked much more impressive to me than Manning did.

 

If Fitzgerald doesn't enter the draft (and I can't remember if he is even eligible) then it'll be between him, Roethberger, Sproles (if he returns), and probably Chris Rix I would say since he is on Florida St and is a QB and a senior which means he is automatically eligible.

 

But Jason White and Fitzgerald were very much the front runners and I had no problem with either man winning the award. I have a small problem with the hit the Heisman again takes but that is the fault of the voters who just love their Jason White mug, Larry Fitzgerald t-shirt, Eli Manning hat, and Chris Perry parka.

Hit? What hit does it take?

They had 4 of the best in college football right there.

 

And once again......it goes to the Player of the Year. Which is Jason White. And it's not an award to determine who's got the best NFL potential. It's a College Football Award.....not an NFL Award.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I said it before. I'm fine with someone criticizing them. But people try to unfairly diminish there accomplishments at every turn.

Getting smoked in the biggest game of the year (up to that point) will have a lot to do with that. And considering that most of the sports press was already convinced that Oklahoma was one of the Top 25 Teams of All Time, you have to admit it was a little bit of a letdown.

 

They lose and people go nuts like it's some kind of grand proof that they all suck and don't deserve anything. If they win the national title game there will be people bitching that they don't deserve it and that they suck. If Jason White wins the Heisman there will be people bitching that he doesn't deserve it and Eli Manning got screwed.

Seriously....they can DO NOTHING to please anyone. The entire team could rid the world of cancer and play every team in the entire NCAA and shut them all out and they would still be told off and discounted.

Maybe if they got the credit they are due rather than "Oh they're good....but hardly that good." and other snide comments I wouldn't be so up on it.

I am tired for seeing them put down at every turn. I'm a fan and I'm going to defend them against bullshit comments like that.

 

Welcome to the backlash. The media went to some painful lengths to hype them as the collective coming of the Jesus, so everybody naturally got angry when a college football team showed up. We build them up to tear them down, etc etc.

 

I can understand why someone would say Eli Manning deserves it but I don't think White is undeserving like some would act.

 

It gets down to the fact that it's hard to tell just how good White is. He's the starting QB on a team that has one of the top three talent bases in college football. He's surrounded by an amazing level of offensive and defensive talent. Yeah, he has had a great deal of success, and it would be pure ignorance to say that, 40 touchdown passes later, that he hasn't been successful.

 

The debate revolves around the perceived value of his talent being undefined. When White had a bad game, Oklahoma lost; therefore, it's easy to say that White is valuable to the team. However, since we haven't been able to see any stats of White losing key offensive personnel for a prolonged stretch of time, it's hard to determine whether he's really conducting the symphony of destruction by himself, or whether everybody else is helping him carry the tune.

 

And that's where the advocacy for candidates like Fitzgerald and Manning came from. Though Eli's stats weren't mind-boggling, he was literally willing Ole Miss to win at certain parts of the year. Fitzgerald was essentially the lone offensive threat on his team, but yet he still reeled off amazing statistics while always drawing the worst that the opposing defense had to offer.

 

It's not to say that Jason White doesn't have talent. It's just not necessarily proven in the same ways that we've seen with Fitzgerald and Manning. And, since the Heisman is more synonymous with "best player in college football" rather than "MVP", White wasn't necessarily as strong as a candidate as you felt (though it, of course, ended up being a moot point).

 

I felt (and still feel) like Fitzgerald should have won it, but there's no questioning the Heisman Committee's blatant and consistent disrespect for wide receivers, so no dice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well unless someone has a complete breakout year next year like White had this year then I think Fitzgerald will get it.

But the thing is...think of this. They pretty much have the same offense as they did under Nate Hybl.

Now I may be bias since every Sooner fan calls for Hybl's blood(they do really.....he's like a villain around these parts) but they were good with Hybl. But not as good as they are this year.

They lost two games last year and weren't posting huge numbers.

White comes onto the team and suddenly BOOM everything is good.

Now yes we don't know if it was just White being hurt in the Big XII that brought the team down or if it was the entire team(though i say the entire team failed on that night...not just him) but I do know that they are 10x better this year under Jason White than they were last year under Nate Hybl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But the thing is...think of this. They pretty much have the same offense as they did under Nate Hybl.

Right. Which means that most of the offensive personnel around White had a full year to mature with experience and become better football players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Getting smoked in the biggest game of the year (up to that point) will have a lot to do with that.

 

 

 

 

I can understand why someone would say Eli Manning deserves it but I don't think White is undeserving like some would act.

 

He's the starting QB on a team that has one of the top three talent bases in college football. He's surrounded by an amazing level of offensive and defensive talent.

 

I felt (and still feel) like Fitzgerald should have won it, but there's no questioning the Heisman Committee's blatant and consistent disrespect for wide receivers, so no dice.

Fitgerald had 3 ctchs for 26 yards in probably Pittsburgh biggest game in almost 20 years. It's only natural, that when a canidate plays poorly his team loses that game. That's one reason why their canidates in the first place.

 

I'll give you the defense, but no on the offense. It's great, but not has good individually has people say it is.

 

The problem with WR's. They can't take control of the game like a RB, or QB can do. Sure, some can receive double even triple coverage, but they need a QB to get them the ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But the thing is...think of this. They pretty much have the same offense as they did under Nate Hybl.

Right. Which means that most of the offensive personnel around White had a full year to mature with experience and become better football players.

Or, Jason White deserves alot more credit for OU's success this year than people want to give him credit for.

 

Fitgerald may challenge the NFL. He's a 3rd year Sophmore. But is situation is different. He spent a year in military academy.So the NFL still looks at Fitgerald in only is 2nd year out of high school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fitgerald had 3 ctchs for 26 yards in probably Pittsburgh biggest game in almost 20 years. It's only natural, that when a canidate plays poorly his team loses that game. That's one reason why their canidates in the first place.

Er, I wasn't arguing that none of the other competitors had a bad game. Yes, almost all of the competitors had a poor game and, in those games, their team lost. Undoubtedly, the Heisman candidates should be the MVP candidates of their own team.

 

I'll give you the defense, but no on the offense. It's great, but not has good individually has people say it is.

 

It's still a lot better than some of the other teams out there. Of course, we'll never know which one is more dominant - the QB or the receivers - since Jason White never had to contend against a team without his first-string offensive players. Hence, his talent is unproven.

 

The problem with WR's. They can't take control of the game like a RB, or QB can do. Sure, some can receive double even triple coverage, but they need a QB to get them the ball.

 

Well, by drawing three defenders, a wideout has already cut the amount of defensive personnel for other players to focus on by more than 25%. That's a pretty decent margin.

 

Of course, considering that the quarterback is basically the only player who initiates the offensive plays from the huddle, he's the only one that even has a shot at "controlling the game", though they have to have someone to throw to. Or to block for them.

 

It's not basketball. Save for the one sterling example of Michael Vick, no offensive player can singlehandedly take control of a football game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But doesn't that just de-value the Heisman more if the winner can't play in the NFL?

 

The Heisman has NOT had a good run lately and really the last stand could be Carson Palmer.

The NFL and college football are practically two different sports. In many respects, NCAA ball is closer to the CFL than to the NFL with all the gimmick plays and system offenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course, considering that the quarterback is basically the only player who initiates the offensive plays from the huddle, he's the only one that even has a shot at "controlling the game", though they have to have someone to throw to. Or to block for them.

 

It's not basketball. Save for the one sterling example of Michael Vick, no offensive player can singlehandedly take control of a football game.

Every positions needs others to perform that's a given.

 

I'd say a RB, is capable of taking control of the game. Sometimes even without a great line. Barry Sanders was the best example of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't understand how you can say that White is unproven. He proved himself plenty this season. He's no Gino Toretta. He's not good because of his team. Remember......OU's offense was solid but not "one of the greatest" until White took the helm of it. That has to say something about White.

The improvement of the offense was to drastic to just cut it up to another year to mature.

White is what put the OU offense over the top.

What if he tears his ACL against LSU in the first play of the game and OU proceeds to play like they always do and lose? Then White would be proven right there. However let's hope he doesn't do that..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Vince Wilfork, D.J. Williams... that's four.  At least we all know who the best RB in the country is...

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

He goes to VT.

Since when did Chris Perry go to Va. Tech

Edited by lomasmoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fitzgerald likely won't be even half as good next year if he stays at Pitt. They're losing most of the offense to graduation.

Well where do you think he should go?

I mean this is college football......not the NFL. These guys should be in it for an education. Not to get traded around the country like free agents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations, Jason White. You now join the elite ranks of Andre Ware, Charlie Ward, and Gino Toretta.

 

Did White have a great season? Of course. But the similarity he has to the above three players (besides the fact that all won the Heisman), is that they're all system QBs. OU has installed a pass-happy offense and has a ridiculous talent base, so of course they're going to put up gaudy numbers. Factor in a schedule peppered with cupcakes, and it's easy to see why the stats get to the levels they do. When KSU was owning Oklahoma, Stoops refused to abandon the pass-wacky gameplan, despite the fact that it obviously wasn't working. A team with a real defense came in and shut the system down, and its QB along with it.

 

That's not to say White didn't have a great year; he certainly did. But was he the best player in the country? I don't think so, but I don't have a Heisman vote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Congratulations, Jason White. You now join the elite ranks of Andre Ware, Charlie Ward, and Gino Toretta.

 

Did White have a great season? Of course. But the similarity he has to the above three players (besides the fact that all won the Heisman), is that they're all system QBs. OU has installed a pass-happy offense and has a ridiculous talent base, so of course they're going to put up gaudy numbers. Factor in a schedule peppered with cupcakes, and it's easy to see why the stats get to the levels they do. When KSU was owning Oklahoma, Stoops refused to abandon the pass-wacky gameplan, despite the fact that it obviously wasn't working. A team with a real defense came in and shut the system down, and its QB along with it.

 

That's not to say White didn't have a great year; he certainly did. But was he the best player in the country? I don't think so, but I don't have a Heisman vote.

Oh please. I'm so tired of the "Jason White is only good because of his team" argument. White not only had a great season but he totally reinvented his game to make himself a new player. And he was better after the injury than he was before it. To say that White was only good because of his team is ludicrous. The guy had one of the biggest impacts on College Football this season(along with the other 3 finalists) and deserved every bit of that trophy. Jason White had a great year with OU yes.....would he have had a great year with another team? Hell yes he would've. He's proved his talent.

And yeah he got shut down in the K-State game. But he was also injured in that game(3 injuries mind you) and he was still trying his best and he still threw for over 300 yards. But the guy was hurt. "Well Heisman players play hurt!" Well so did White. But K-State's defense was to good for him to pull out a miracle with a hurt knee, arm, and head.

 

Look. White deserved it. White is not another Gino Toretta. White deserved it because of Jason White. Get over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to point out the irony in all this.

 

Oklahoma fans jumping up and down screaming "Who cares that we got bitchslapped in the conference championship...you have to look at the full season!!!"

 

And Oklahoma's QB winning the Heisman as a result of voters not judging the full season and turning in their ballots early.

 

I think I'll move to Oklahoma. The land of being handed everything you don't deserve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×