The Mandarin Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 WWE have released a new magazine, listing their picks for the top 50 wrestlers of all time. It costs $6.99 on Shopzone.com. I can just imagine the debates already. Here's a list of the entrants (there is NO rank by number aka. 1, 2, 3..etc), and feel free to name who you think should be in or out. Andre the Giant Gorilla Monsoon Shawn Michaels Undertaker Iron Sheik George "The Animal" Steele Haystacks Calhoun Ric Flair Jesse Ventura Junkyard Dog Roddy Piper Kane King Kong Bundy Buddy Rogers Ultimate Warrior Magnificent Muraco Honky Tonk Man Hulk Hogan Killer Kowalski Pat Patterson Chris Jericho Chief Jay Strongbow Stone Cold Steve Austin Ted Dibiase Bret Hart Bob Backlund Bobo Brazil Ivan Putski Razor Ramon Wendi Richter The Rock Randy Savage Jake "the Snake" Roberts Ricky Steamboat Mick Foley Triple H Jimmy Snuka Bruno Sammartino Fabulous Moolah Brock Lesnar Yokozuna Billy Graham Antonio Rocca Pedro Morales Sgt. Slaughter Ernie Ladd Kurt Angle Ric Rude Ken Patera Paul Orndorff There's also a story on the McMahon history. Yay. Sounds very interesting. I'm sure SOMEONE could have replaced Ivan Putski.
Lord of The Curry Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Lesnar? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Where's the fucking Mr. Perfect love? Star Ocean- Who's that in your sig? Yowza!
The Mandarin Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Posted December 13, 2003 Personally, I think the following should be out: Gorilla Monsoon (great announcer, but he just seems misplaced) George "The Animal" Steele Haystacks Calhoun Kane King Kong Bundy Pat Patterson (not too spectacular in the ring) Ivan Putski Razor Ramon (at least Nash amounted to more..I'd consider him, but there are others who should be acknowledged first) Brock Lesnar (too early in his career, although putting him in gives him somewhat of a rub, naming him among the greats and all) Yokozuna Ken Patera Paul Orndorff (maybe, was a big draw with Hogan)
JustJoe2k5 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Surprised Owen Hart didn't make the cut and Yokozuna did.
The Metal Maniac Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 I don't like the inclusions of Kane, Lesnar, and Angle. Kane's never really done anything of huge note, and Lesnar and Angle are still too early in their respective careers to make a good judgement on how great they are. I mean, I'm not saying that they DON'T belong on there, but...not yet. And yeah, I realize that Angle has been around for roughly as long as Jericho, but Jericho beat Rock and Austin, in two straight matches, to win the WCW and WWF titles. That alone puts him on there, kayfabe-wise.
Lord of The Curry Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Not when you considered that both those victories were fucking tainted. Jericho shouldn't be there.
The Metal Maniac Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 He's a heel. Of course they were. That aside, he's STILL the first-ever Undisputed Champion. I'd say he belongs.
Guest Anglesault Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Surprised Owen Hart didn't make the cut and Yokozuna did. Yoko is a two time world champion who has main evented two WrestleManias.
Lord of The Curry Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 He's a heel. Of course they were. That aside, he's STILL the first-ever Undisputed Champion. I'd say he belongs. Jericho's been jobbed out so many times over that nobody ever thinks of him as the first ever Undisputed champ. " He feuded with Chyna" " He kissed Steph" and coming soon........ " Him and Christian got beat up by Lita and Trish." Yeah, that's a champ.
Slayer Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Star Ocean- Who's that in your sig? Yowza! He didn't know when I asked him. I'd sure like to know though. Cutie As for the list itself, like with most lists, after you get past a top 20 or so, some guys are gonna seem more like filler than anything, and those are the guys you debate on. Putski's probably the only one on there I don't get on any level. He doesn't have the main event excuse or the charisma excuse, he was just really muscular, though Graham blew him away.
Guest Fook Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) No Mr. Perfect? No British Bulldog? EDIT: Pedro's on it. I'm just blind. Edited December 13, 2003 by Fook
The Metal Maniac Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Jericho's been jobbed out so many times over that nobody ever thinks of him as the first ever Undisputed champ. It's irrelevant what people THINK. The TRUTH is, he was. He's also held more WWF title belts then anyone. He's held the World, Tag, IC, Euro, Hardcore (For like, two minutes, but still) and technically the cruiserweight belt (I say technically because the WWE cruiserweight belt is just the old WCW cruiserweight belt, which Jericho held). Edit: I just had a thought - is that still true, or did Angle catch up to him? I knew that Angle was close, but I can't recall if he ever completed it. In any event, Jericho was first at it, though.
CanadianChris Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 No way does Patera belong on there. Wasn't he mainly an AWA guy, anyway?
Jobber of the Week Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Andre the Giant - Yes Gorilla Monsoon - No Shawn Michaels - No Undertaker - Yes Iron Sheik - Yes George "The Animal" Steele - No Haystacks Calhoun - Who? Ric Flair - Yes Jesse Ventura - No Junkyard Dog - No Roddy Piper - Yes Kane - No King Kong Bundy - No Buddy Rogers - Who? Ultimate Warrior - No Magnificent Muraco - Who? Honky Tonk Man - No Hulk Hogan - Yes Killer Kowalski - Who? Pat Patterson - Yes Chris Jericho - Yes Chief Jay Strongbow - Yes Stone Cold Steve Austin - Yes Ted Dibiase - Yes Bret Hart - Yes Bob Backlund - Yes Bobo Brazil - Who? Ivan Putski - Who? Razor Ramon - No Wendi Richter - No The Rock - Yes Randy Savage - Yes Jake "the Snake" Roberts - No (if he had retired earlier before getting so fucked up, yes) Ricky Steamboat - Yes Mick Foley - Yes Triple H - Yes (take THAT) Jimmy Snuka - Yes Bruno Sammartino - Yes Fabulous Moolah - Yes Brock Lesnar - No Yokozuna - Yes Billy Graham - No Antonio Rocca - Who? Pedro Morales - Yes Sgt. Slaughter - No Ernie Ladd - Who? Kurt Angle - Yes Ric Rude - Yes Ken Patera - Who? Paul Orndorff - Yes
The Mandarin Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Posted December 13, 2003 I'm suprised at the lack of British Bulldog. He did a lot in WWE, more so than a lot of superstars. And, when you think about it, Ted Dibiase didn't do THAT much in WWE. I mean, he was big in '84, but that's about it. The rest, he was just stuck in the midcard with Virgil and his jobber Corporation in 1995 (with *EXTRA* Kwang!) Neither did Steamboat, who had one big feud in '87 (and quickly jobbed to Honky Tonk Man), but had a horrible run as The Dragon in the early 90's. His NWA matches with Ric Flair probably boosted his score, even though he didn't wrestle those as part of WWE. Yeah, they wish. EDIT: Haha, I posted faster than you, CC.
CanadianChris Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 ^ You can't go through that list without a knowledge of the 70s.
Guest Anglesault Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Jericho's been jobbed out so many times over that nobody ever thinks of him as the first ever Undisputed champ. It's irrelevant what people THINK. The TRUTH is, he was. He's also held more WWF title belts then anyone. He's held the World, Tag, IC, Euro, Hardcore (For like, two minutes, but still) and technically the cruiserweight belt (I say technically because the WWE cruiserweight belt is just the old WCW cruiserweight belt, which Jericho held). Edit: I just had a thought - is that still true, or did Angle catch up to him? I knew that Angle was close, but I can't recall if he ever completed it. In any event, Jericho was first at it, though. Angle is WWF/E World, IC, Euro, Tag, Hardcore, "WCW" World, United States and KotR.
Mecha Mummy Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Angle, Lesnar, Kane, Patera, and Orndorff shouldn't be on that list. I can understand most everyone else, but those five? No.
Slayer Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Okay, running with my last post, let's determine criteria that would constitute such a list These factors are independent of each other, so a wrestler heavy in one area but lacking in another still could be considered 1. Main Event Excuse - If you were pushed in a lot of main events, you could be considered for this list, even if history no longer looks at your ME run favorably (see: Warrior) 2. Charisma Excuse - If you were charismatic and got lots of heat, you could be considered, regardless of being ME-er or not (see: Piper) Any other factors?
CanadianChris Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Angle, Lesnar, Kane, Patera, and Orndorff shouldn't be on that list. I can understand most everyone else, but those five? No. Orndorff absolutely belongs on that list. He and Hogan had Hogan's biggest feud of his first title reign. Main eventing WrestleMania I doesn't hurt either.
Guest JRE Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 The picture in that magazine of HBK doing the elbow drop at WMXIX is badass!
Guest Anglesault Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Angle, Lesnar, Kane, Patera, and Orndorff shouldn't be on that list. I can understand most everyone else, but those five? No. Orndorff absolutely belongs on that list. He and Hogan had Hogan's biggest feud of his first title reign. Andre feud is bigger.
LucharesuFan619 Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 I just picked up the mag at Borders today. Awesome, awesome, awesomoe articles and especially photos (although admittedly a fair amount of the old pics are from PWI, which WWE made no point of trying to hide). I couldn't believe Brock was listed, though. That's ridiculous.
CanadianChris Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Angle, Lesnar, Kane, Patera, and Orndorff shouldn't be on that list. I can understand most everyone else, but those five? No. Orndorff absolutely belongs on that list. He and Hogan had Hogan's biggest feud of his first title reign. Andre feud is bigger. By what measure?
Guest Anglesault Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Angle, Lesnar, Kane, Patera, and Orndorff shouldn't be on that list. I can understand most everyone else, but those five? No. Orndorff absolutely belongs on that list. He and Hogan had Hogan's biggest feud of his first title reign. Andre feud is bigger. By what measure? By degree, I guess. It was the two biggest forces in wrestling (or at least the WWF) squaring off.
Guest Frank_Nabbit Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Andre the Giant - Yes Gorilla Monsoon - No Shawn Michaels - No Undertaker - Yes Iron Sheik - Yes George "The Animal" Steele - No Haystacks Calhoun - Who? Ric Flair - Yes Jesse Ventura - No Junkyard Dog - No Roddy Piper - Yes Kane - No King Kong Bundy - No Buddy Rogers - Who? Ultimate Warrior - No Magnificent Muraco - Who? Honky Tonk Man - No Hulk Hogan - Yes Killer Kowalski - Who? Pat Patterson - Yes Chris Jericho - Yes Chief Jay Strongbow - Yes Stone Cold Steve Austin - Yes Ted Dibiase - Yes Bret Hart - Yes Bob Backlund - Yes Bobo Brazil - Who? Ivan Putski - Who? Razor Ramon - No Wendi Richter - No The Rock - Yes Randy Savage - Yes Jake "the Snake" Roberts - No (if he had retired earlier before getting so fucked up, yes) Ricky Steamboat - Yes Mick Foley - Yes Triple H - Yes (take THAT) Jimmy Snuka - Yes Bruno Sammartino - Yes Fabulous Moolah - Yes Brock Lesnar - No Yokozuna - Yes Billy Graham - No Antonio Rocca - Who? Pedro Morales - Yes Sgt. Slaughter - No Ernie Ladd - Who? Kurt Angle - Yes Ric Rude - Yes Ken Patera - Who? Paul Orndorff - Yes Ignorant fool... Unlesss you know the old timers your opiniom means jack
Guest Frank_Nabbit Posted December 13, 2003 Report Posted December 13, 2003 Personally, I think the following should be out: Gorilla Monsoon (great announcer, but he just seems misplaced) Pat Patterson (not too spectacular in the ring) And, when you think about it, Ted Dibiase didn't do THAT much in WWE. I mean, he was big in '84, but that's about it Another ignorant jackass Ask Bill Watts where Dibiase was in 84 And go watch Patterson matches from before 1998 *groans*
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