Let the debates begin!

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Magnificent Muraco - Who?

The dude Duane Johnson stole his name from

[Guest JMA]

Big Show should be on the list before Kane.

Hell, Big Show should be on there before Warrior.

[Papacita 0]

Shawn Michaels: Didn't draw flies as champion. Filled the main event when nobody else was available, but hardly could generate business and was also a major league primadonna backstage. Sorry, I've never considered the guy a legend, no matter how much they want to feed me the idea that he is.

I don't see HBK as a legend either (and I'm a Michaels MARK), but I can understand why he'd be on the list. Despite the fact that the WWF drew poorly in 95/96, Shawn was the most popular guy in the fed for a good portion of the time period. Also, he has been involved in a few matches that are classified as all-time greats, and he's ME'd 3 Wrestlemanias. His rivalry with Bret alone would probably be enough to warrant a spot on the list. I'd definitely put him on the list before HHH.

[Hektik 0]

, and he's ME'd 3 Wrestlemanias.

Shawn Michaels has main evented 2 Wrestlemanias, WM 12 and WM 14. Wrestlemania 11 was main evented by Lawrence Taylor/Bam Bam Bigelow.

[Papacita 0]

, and he's ME'd 3 Wrestlemanias.

Shawn Michaels has main evented 2 Wrestlemanias, WM 12 and WM 14. Wrestlemania 11 was main evented by Lawrence Taylor/Bam Bam Bigelow.

It was billed as a double ME if I remember right.

[Tawren 0]

Andre the Giant-Yes

Gorilla Monsoon-Yes

Shawn Michaels-Yes

Undertaker-Yes

Iron Sheik-Yes

George "The Animal" Steele-NO

Haystacks Calhoun-NO

Ric Flair-NO

Jesse Ventura-NO

Junkyard Dog-NO

Roddy Piper-Yes

Kane-NO

King Kong Bundy-NO

Buddy Rogers-Yes

Ultimate Warrior-Yes

Magnificent Muraco-Yes

Honky Tonk Man-NO

Hulk Hogan-Yes

Killer Kowalski-NO

Pat Patterson-Yes

Chris Jericho-NO

Chief Jay Strongbow-Yes

Stone Cold Steve Austin-Yes

Ted Dibiase-NO

Bret Hart-Yes

Bob Backlund-Yes

Bobo Brazil-NO

Ivan Putski-NO

Razor Ramon-Yes

Wendi Richter-NO

The Rock-Yes

Randy Savage-Yes

Jake "the Snake" Roberts-NO

Ricky Steamboat-NO

Mick Foley-Yes

Triple H-Yes

Jimmy Snuka-Yes

Bruno Sammartino-Yes

Fabulous Moolah-NO

Brock Lesnar-NO

Yokozuna-Yes

Billy Graham-Yes

Antonio Rocca-Yes

Pedro Morales-Yes

Sgt. Slaughter-Yes

Ernie Ladd-Yes

Kurt Angle-NO

Ric Rude-NO

Ken Patera-Yes

Paul Orndorff-Yes

[CanadianChris 0]

OK Tawren, your next challenge...come up with 20 justifiable names to replace the ones you crossed off.

[Tawren 0]

OK Tawren, your next challenge...come up with 20 justifiable names to replace the ones you crossed off.

Will do. Just give me a couple minutes, mmmk?

[chaosrage 0]

Okay, to explain some of my choices:

 

Shawn Michaels: Didn't draw flies as champion. Filled the main event when nobody else was available, but hardly could generate business and was also a major league primadonna backstage.

Fucking late 97/early 98. This has been proved wrong so many times. Just read some posts from this week.

[Guest NCJ]

Those that are complaining are absolutely nuts. Kane made the list because he has one of the most memorable gimmicks ever. Same with Dibiase(who could actually wrestle and was invovled in some of the biggest storylines in WWF history), Jake the Snake(one of the best heels ever), Rick Rude (one of the most underappreciated ever), and Honky Tonk Man(longest reigning IC champ). Honestly I love the list for the most part. Angle and Lesnar will be remembered for years. I do think it is a little early at this point, but they were/are incredibly important(only olympic gold medalist/youngest WWE champ). JYD was absolutely hugely over. He was the attraction for african-american fans in the early eighties. Ricky Steamboat wrestled arguably the greatest match in Wrestlemania/WWF history. Bundy makes the list for being insanely large, the 5 count, and being in the first WM cage match/ first WM world championship match . That Moolah and Ricchter were the driving forces behind the womens division and pulled in alot of the female/pop demographic with the whole Cindy Lauper fued. This is a list that is based on what being memorable as much as being great in the ring. Honestly I would have liked to have seen Davey Boy Smith, Big Bossman, and Owen Hart make the list, but for the most part this is a great list.

Edited December 14, 2003 by NCJ

[Tawren 0]

Want me to give reasons for any, I will.

 

Stan Stasiak

Greg Valentine

Curt Hennig

British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith

Larry Zbyszko

Tito Santana

Diesel

Owen Hart

Nikolai Volkoff

Sid Vicious

Rick Martel (I know you'll argue this, so I'll just say-really underrated guy who was in the mid to high card and put on lots of good matches)

Chris Benoit (I know you'll also argue this, so I'll say-tons of classic matches in the WWF/E with lots of different people)

Big Show (I know you'll also argue this big time, but he main evented WM16 and has won a couple world titles, as well as main eventing lots of PPVs)

Jeff Jarrett

123 Kid/X-Pac (lots of classic matches and angles, + a part of DX)

Dynamite Kid

Adrian Adonis

Bob Orton

Big John Studd

Ivan Koloff

[Guest Askewniverse]

Ric Flair-NO

Blasphemy!

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Stan Stasiak - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......HAHAHAHAHA.... oh wait you were serious. I would never put someone on this list that used the fucking Heart Punch as a finisher

Greg Valentine

Curt Hennig

British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith

Larry Zbyszko - how about no

Tito Santana

Diesel

Owen Hart

Nikolai Volkoff - lol

Sid Vicious

Rick Martel - he rode Zenk and Santana's coat tails

Chris Benoit (I know you'll also argue this, so I'll say-tons of classic matches in the WWF/E with lots of different people)

Big Show (I know you'll also argue this big time, but he main evented WM16 and has won a couple world titles, as well as main eventing lots of PPVs)

Jeff Jarrett

123 Kid/X-Pac (lots of classic matches and angles, + a part of DX)

Dynamite Kid

Adrian Adonis - mid carder at best

Bob Orton - mid carder at best

Big John Studd - no

Ivan Koloff - nope

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

I agree with Tito Santana. He was THE hispanic wretsler of the 80's, had a great feud with Greg Valentine, formed a great team with Rick Martel, and was all around probably the most under spoken about wrestler from the 80's. Tito is one of my fav's of all time, to see that they think Brock's 2 years in the wee are better than Tito's 10+, than fuck them. The only thing Brock has one Tito is world title reigns...which Tito should have been given at least one, even if it was a Ivan Putski like reign.

[Downhome 0]

I posted a topic on this at FNX (formally DDT, yeah...THOSE guys) and I got this response from one Mysterio 619 there...

 

Top 50 Wrestlers?

 

And out of that "top 50" one woman was named in that list? Being Fabulous Moolah. Christ they have the nerve to add Bret "the cry baby" hart in that list, but not Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart? Two wrestlers with more talent and less cry-baby activities then Bret?

 

Hell, Lita & Chyna are better, (talent wise) then Bret Hart. Ok, fair enough he spent years being the number 1 man. But that went all down the drain when his ego overtook his wrestling abilities.

 

And what the hell has Chris Jericho done thats so extraodinary?

 

Sorry but thats pretty much a spit in the face to a lot of better wrestlers then some of those listed.

 

...............................................

 

Well I think a few people got their panties in a bit of a tid-bit all because I said (My Opinion), Lita & Chyna are better than Bret. I have every right to say that, because my opinion is based on facts.

 

Bret is/was an egotistical imbecile.

Chyna wrestled in Japan for charity.

Bret sulked about not re-gaining the WWF title.

Chyna was the first woman to gain a "mans belt" and didn't complain when she lost it.

What has Bret done so damn good that, as I compared him to, Chyna and Lita have not?

 

It was a simple observation of mine, so relax.

 

It's just an opinion.

 

...stupidity is alive and well folks.

Edited December 14, 2003 by Downhome

[Tawren 0]

Stan Stasiak - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......HAHAHAHAHA.... oh wait you were serious. I would never put someone on this list that used the fucking Heart Punch as a finisher

Why Wendy fucking Richter got on the list and you don't question that, but you laugh at the idea of a former WWWF world champion getting on the list, is funny to me.

 

Nuff said.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Yeah, considering Richter made the list as well.

[Tawren 0]

Yeah, considering Richter made the list as well.

Go back and read the first post, buddy.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Stan Stasiak - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......HAHAHAHAHA.... oh wait you were serious.  I would never put someone on this list that used the fucking Heart Punch as a finisher

Why Wendy fucking Richter got on the list and you don't question that, but you laugh at the idea of a former WWWF world champion getting on the list, is funny to me.

 

Nuff said.

He got the belt on a whim. He held the damn thing for 3 days. He was shocked when he found out that a mid carder such as himself was going to get the belt.

 

Richter is the only woman to ever headline shows with the men.

[The Mandarin 0]

Wendi Richter was pretty big in '85, though. Of course, the Cyndi Lauper appearance certainly helped.

 

And Tawren, I just wanted to hear your reasoning for Adonis and Zybyszko. I thought Zybyszko did most of his work in AWA, but I'm likely wrong.

[Tawren 0]

And Tawren, I just wanted to hear your reasoning for Adonis and Zybyszko. I thought Zybyszko did most of his work in AWA, but I'm likely wrong.

Adonis: big heel in the 80s, involved in the huge storyline with Pipers farewell in 87.

Zybyzko: his feud with Bruno is why I put him on.

[Guest JebusNassedar]

Um. X-Pac is just opening a door. because, by your logic, that makes Road Dogg and Billy Gunn eligable. So just think on that.

 

Personally, I'm thrilled to see DiBiase on there. tremendous wrestler who wasnt allowed to do much more than own a slave in the US.

 

The biggest stumper for me is Haystacks Calhoun. But, Vince loves big men, and he was BIG, so I guess that's where the connection comes in. Brock is moderately confusing, but keep in mind he's still on the push from hell. Jericho, too, is a little puzzling, seeing as he hasnt exactly been pushed over the last two years. But, then again, there is the whole undisputed thing, so I guess it's justified.

 

My "contreversial-Brock-replacement" is Crash Holly, and not just because of recent events. Crash -made- that division what it is, and simply turned the hardcore world right-side-up. He came out with this silly claim that no one thought would work, and -made- it work, providing memories for any and all watchers. Sure, Mankind was the first champ. Sure, Holly and Al Snow whooped on each other. But Crash is/was the king of hardcore in WWF. But not in the same way Foley is. That's another possibility. Headlined only one Mania, but had many, many classic matches, that made him a legend in WWF/E. And the ONLY way I would put Benoit on there is if WWE suddenly acknowledged his Super J-Cup win. Otherwise, he's been low on the title count.

[Adam 0]

I posted a topic on this at FNX (formally DDT, yeah...THOSE guys) and I got this response from one Mysterio 619 there...

 

Top 50 Wrestlers?

 

And out of that "top 50" one woman was named in that list? Being Fabulous Moolah. Christ they have the nerve to add Bret "the cry baby" hart in that list, but not Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart? Two wrestlers with more talent and less cry-baby activities then Bret?

 

Hell, Lita & Chyna are better, (talent wise) then Bret Hart. Ok, fair enough he spent years being the number 1 man. But that went all down the drain when his ego overtook his wrestling abilities.

 

And what the hell has Chris Jericho done thats so extraodinary?

 

Sorry but thats pretty much a spit in the face to a lot of better wrestlers then some of those listed.

 

...............................................

 

Well I think a few people got their panties in a bit of a tid-bit all because I said (My Opinion), Lita & Chyna are better than Bret. I have every right to say that, because my opinion is based on facts.

 

Bret is/was an egotistical imbecile.

Chyna wrestled in Japan for charity.

Bret sulked about not re-gaining the WWF title.

Chyna was the first woman to gain a "mans belt" and didn't complain when she lost it.

What has Bret done so damn good that, as I compared him to, Chyna and Lita have not?

 

It was a simple observation of mine, so relax.

 

It's just an opinion.

 

...stupidity is alive and well folks.

Son of a bitch.

[Tawren 0]

Um. X-Pac is just opening a door. because, by your logic, that makes Road Dogg and Billy Gunn eligable. So just think on that.

I also noted how many good angles Pac was in in the early 90s. The feud with Razor, Bret, and those matches, etc. Not just his DX stuff.

[Guest Anglesault]

Chris Benoit

Fuck no.

 

If Angle and Jericho (Guys who have actually accomplished things in the same time frame) get vetoed, Benoit certainly has to be left off.

 

The Chris Benoit character, regardless of how good his matches are, has done nothing of any note in the WWE. And yes, by "nothing of any note" I do mean he has never won the world title.

 

And, using your Big Show logic, both Angle and Jericho make it on, so, as the young-ins say, "booyeah"

[CanadianChris 0]

OK then...

 

Stan Stasiak

Greg Valentine

Curt Hennig

British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith

Larry Zbyszko

Tito Santana

Diesel

Owen Hart

No problem with any of these.

Nikolai Volkoff

Please. DiBiase goes and Volkoff comes in? What did Volkoff ever do?

Sid Vicious

Yep.

Rick Martel (I know you'll argue this, so I'll just say-really underrated guy who was in the mid to high card and put on lots of good matches)

High card? Name me ONE time he was in the upper card. He was a midcarder 4 life. About the only time he even approached the upper card was his feud with Jake (who you crossed off).

Chris Benoit (I know you'll also argue this, so I'll say-tons of classic matches in the WWF/E with lots of different people)

I argued this earlier. If you leave off Angle, you HAVE to leave off Benoit, since they both came in at the same time, and since Angle's WWE career has been better than Benoit's.

Big Show (I know you'll also argue this big time, but he main evented WM16 and has won a couple world titles, as well as main eventing lots of PPVs)

Not at all. I was surprised he was left off too.

Jeff Jarrett

Didn't do anything to really distinguish himself. Honky Tonk Man did his act better.

123 Kid/X-Pac (lots of classic matches and angles, + a part of DX)

Eh. Injured too much, and REALLY sucked for the last two years of his stay. I wouldn't put him over Steamboat, Roberts or DiBiase.

Dynamite Kid

Yep.

Adrian Adonis

A blob. And an embarassment while he was in the WWF.

Bob Orton

Piper's lackey and nothing more.

Big John Studd

Why him and not Bundy? They were interchangeable. Bundy at least main evented WM2.

Ivan Koloff

No. He was mainly an NWA guy anyway, and isn't remembered for anything in the WWWF (except that cup of coffee title reign he had).

 

Now, as for the guys you left off...

 

Honky Tonk Man - longest IC title reign ever. Gotta include him.

Ric Flair - 2-time WWF champion, and had an entire year center around him. An integral part of WWF history.

Jake Roberts - To quote, "really underrated guy who was in the mid to high card and put on lots of good matches." Plus one of the best promo guys ever.

Ted DiBiase - again, had an entire year center partially around him. One of the most memorable characters ever.

Chris Jericho - had Benoit's career in WWF/E, only better. First ever Undisputed Champion.

Ricky Steamboat - For the two years he was there the first time, the best face on the roster. Plus, he put on the greatest WWF match of the 80s.

[Papacita 0]

I posted a topic on this at FNX (formally DDT, yeah...THOSE guys) and I got this response from one Mysterio 619 there...

 

Top 50 Wrestlers?

 

And out of that "top 50" one woman was named in that list? Being Fabulous Moolah. Christ they have the nerve to add Bret "the cry baby" hart in that list, but not Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart? Two wrestlers with more talent and less cry-baby activities then Bret?

 

Hell, Lita & Chyna are better, (talent wise) then Bret Hart. Ok, fair enough he spent years being the number 1 man. But that went all down the drain when his ego overtook his wrestling abilities.

 

And what the hell has Chris Jericho done thats so extraodinary?

 

Sorry but thats pretty much a spit in the face to a lot of better wrestlers then some of those listed.

 

...............................................

 

Well I think a few people got their panties in a bit of a tid-bit all because I said (My Opinion), Lita & Chyna are better than Bret. I have every right to say that, because my opinion is based on facts.

 

Bret is/was an egotistical imbecile.

Chyna wrestled in Japan for charity.

Bret sulked about not re-gaining the WWF title.

Chyna was the first woman to gain a "mans belt" and didn't complain when she lost it.

What has Bret done so damn good that, as I compared him to, Chyna and Lita have not?

 

It was a simple observation of mine, so relax.

 

It's just an opinion.

 

...stupidity is alive and well folks.

You know...

 

 

But....

 

 

Chyna...

 

 

Ah fuck it. I can't even justify that one.

[CanadianChris 0]

I posted a topic on this at FNX (formally DDT, yeah...THOSE guys) and I got this response from one Mysterio 619 there...

 

Top 50 Wrestlers?

 

And out of that "top 50" one woman was named in that list? Being Fabulous Moolah. Christ they have the nerve to add Bret "the cry baby" hart in that list, but not Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart? Two wrestlers with more talent and less cry-baby activities then Bret?

 

Hell, Lita & Chyna are better, (talent wise) then Bret Hart. Ok, fair enough he spent years being the number 1 man. But that went all down the drain when his ego overtook his wrestling abilities.

 

And what the hell has Chris Jericho done thats so extraodinary?

 

Sorry but thats pretty much a spit in the face to a lot of better wrestlers then some of those listed.

 

...............................................

 

Well I think a few people got their panties in a bit of a tid-bit all because I said (My Opinion), Lita & Chyna are better than Bret. I have every right to say that, because my opinion is based on facts.

 

Bret is/was an egotistical imbecile.

Chyna wrestled in Japan for charity.

Bret sulked about not re-gaining the WWF title.

Chyna was the first woman to gain a "mans belt" and didn't complain when she lost it.

What has Bret done so damn good that, as I compared him to, Chyna and Lita have not?

 

It was a simple observation of mine, so relax.

 

It's just an opinion.

 

...stupidity is alive and well folks.

You know...

 

 

But....

 

 

Chyna...

 

 

Ah fuck it. I can't even justify that one.

[The Mandarin 0]

Actually, I would put Chyna over Wendi Richter.

 

Chyna got some big mainstream attention, and was at the top of the midcard for a while.

 

She's also a 2 time IC champ, but that doesn't mean too much.

[Downhome 0]

You know...

 

 

But....

 

 

Chyna...

 

 

Ah fuck it. I can't even justify that one.

I was just waiting for you to respond to that one, heh.