The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 At the end when the moment they were building up for 2 months finally happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Yes it does- thanks for the warning Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 No, at the end where they said "fuck you if you think anyone but Triple J gets to look good tonight". -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I must have missed that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I'm getting the message loud and clear...if I'm watching wrestling to see my favorites succeed, I'm wasting my damn time. -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I really liked tonights show! All the matches were decent to good. As for the finish to the main event, it suprised me! I don't get a lot of you people. For months: "When is CM Punk turning? He need to feud with Raven..." finally it happens and this is somehow a bad thing and oh, it's Jeff Jarrett's fault too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 ...solid card...awful delivery... When do the replays usually run? I'm not ordering the next two weeks because they're "best of" shows (when anything really worth mentioning happened between April-May and July-September), and it isn't shaping up to be a purchase for the 1/7 show, either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I'm officially taking Jeff Jarrett off of the FUCK list, as I felt he was SOLID tonight. His opening promo was his best promo in nearly a year, I feel, and the work I did see of Sting/Jarrett (I fell asleep about halfway through, and woke up halfway through the AJ/D'lo vs. Simon/Swinger match) wasn't too offensive. And I'm bolding/underlining/italicizing "Mantel's shitty booking." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brocklock 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Is the replay worth buying tonight? Anyone? Daniels/Sabin was pretty good, but like usual extremely short. About 8 minutes long. Ki/Shane was alright too. It was an alright show, nothing out of the ordinary. I'd probably give it a 6/10 too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Short? 8 minutes? WTF were you expecting? 20? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Boomer Sprinklespax Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I'm officially taking Jeff Jarrett off of the FUCK list, as I felt he was SOLID tonight. His opening promo was his best promo in nearly a year, I feel, and the work I did see of Sting/Jarrett (I fell asleep about halfway through, and woke up halfway through the AJ/D'lo vs. Simon/Swinger match) wasn't too offensive. And I'm bolding/underlining/italicizing "Mantel's shitty booking." How was the booking shitty tonight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Boomer Sprinklespax Report post Posted December 18, 2003 No, at the end where they said "fuck you if you think anyone but Triple J gets to look good tonight". -Patrick Triple J jobbed tonight, so he didn't exactly look good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brocklock 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Short? 8 minutes? WTF were you expecting? 20? I wasn't expecting it to be long, but when was the last time they gave a x division match 15 minutes or more. All I want from them is a 15 to 20 minute match that is not loaded with screw jobs and run ins galor. The last one I believe was Juvi/Sabin and that ruled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Great...the turn finally happens and I don't get it to see it. Personally, I think it would have been better if Punk turned on Raven and Julio. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Short? 8 minutes? WTF were you expecting? 20? Yes, I expect 20 fucking minutes when I PAY TEN BUCKS FOR THE SHOW. Obviously you and the TNA bookers share mutual cluelessness when it comes to this fact. People are paying for these shows. if TNA is the alternative, shouldn't they be giving out long matches between great workers to highlight their strengths? I mean, this is fucking ridiculous. They worked a story built for a 20 minute match and squished it into 7, resulting in a mediocre match. Ki and Shane was alright, but hey, it's fucking Michael Shane. I bought the show tonight, and I was just left scratching my head in the end. A bunch of wierd-ass booking that was obviously thought up that afternoon just so they could throw together an Ultimate X match, which is, by the way, a horrible waste of the talent of Ki, Sabin, and Daniels. I enjoyed Simon/Swinger vs. D-Lo/AJ, it was a good match, but the overbooking of this show killed me. I've seen multiple episodes of Mantell's IWA, and it was very clear that he is attempting to turn TNA into it...lots of factions, chaotic booking, etc...it could work. The trainwreck=excitement theory can work, but things need to make sense...tonight, it seemed like nothing made sense. For weeks, we have been waiting for developments...ANY developments...and then he goes ahead and has all sorts of crazy shit in one night. Positive: The CM Punk turn. Now he needs to turn on Julio next week and rip on the hicks of Nashville for throwing their lives away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest vicvenomjr Report post Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) For months: "When is CM Punk turning? He need to feud with Raven..." finally it happens and this is somehow a bad thing and oh, it's Jeff Jarrett's fault too *****First this may be the smartest comment I've read on a message board this whole year. Second, last night's show was AWESOME. Your just refusing to be satisfied if you believe that the show wasn't very, very solid. On the same week the WWF did something worse than necrophilia (Orton spitting on Foley) you people still can't give TNA their due, that's just pathetic. It's a shame too because there are plenty marks out there scanning this board and being influenced by your insanely biased remarks. As a result their not buying the show and allow VKM to continue is stranglehold on the industry (this week's Raw may have been the worst one ever). Am I just a happy go lucky mark for the TNA product? Maybe. But dear god people you wouldn't be satisfied with a ROH undercard that included main events of Hart-Angle and Steamboat-Flair in their prime. You don't like the storyline's that's your chocie (your wrong) but this promotion more than makes up for it by having classic athletes in every single match. Please don't criticize the in-ring product even if it only goes 8 mins. It produces greatly for the time it has and dear god their giving you an Ultimate X match in 2 weeks. Yes JJ is a solid main event champ. Yes the two best tag teams in the world are in TNA. Yes Daniels, Lo-Ki, Elix, Sabin are all better than anyone on Raw except Y2J. Yes Styles is better, right now, than anyone on SD! with the exception of Eddie and Benoit. And that includes Lesnar AND Angle. It's the holiday season folks, get over your hatred of everything that is rassling and appreciate the great athletes (better than any your grandfather watched) that you currently get to watch, expecially on Wednesdays. This is my last post, nah it probably isn't but whatever, I'll return under a different name to save your souls (literally). Edited December 18, 2003 by vicvenomjr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 You don't like the storyline's that's your chocie (your wrong) but this promotion more than makes up for it by having classic athletes in every single match. Please don't criticize the in-ring product even if it only goes 8 mins. It produces greatly for the time it has and dear god their giving you an Ultimate X match in 2 weeks. Yes JJ is a solid main event champ. Yes the two best tag teams in the world are in TNA. Yes Daniels, Lo-Ki, Elix, Sabin are all better than anyone on Raw except Y2J. Yes Styles is better, right now, than anyone on SD! with the exception of Eddie and Benoit. And that includes Lesnar AND Angle. Oh man.... Classic Atheletes? The Red Shirt Security? And what if I don't like seeing wrestlers that can have better regular matches being shoved into circus acts? A regular 4-way with 20 minutes would be better than a rope-climbing contest, why not just have the regular match? The TWO BEST TAG TEAMS IN THE WORLD? Are you on drugs? Or do you see nothing other than TNA and WWE? Half of the teams entered in the PWG tourney in January are better than any team in TNA. And the Styles comment is wrong. He's not better than Paul London. Not that London is really on SD, anyways. The irony of this point is that Chris Daniels is better than AJ Styles, you should be making the point using Daniels. By the way, what makes JJ a solid main event champ? The groan every time he wins? His lack of any good matches since his match with Raven? His midcard-for-life stigma that will never go away? I refuse to appreciate a product just because it's better than shit (Raw). TNA is like dry dog shit to the WWE's wet dog shit. And once again, you have to pay 10 bucks a show, so it SHOULD be way better than Raw. TNA could be so, so much more. They have access to every Indy wrestler in the U.S. that would love to get on nat'l TV. How can the show *not* be great? TNA last night was a decent show. Decent is not good enough when you're paying. If every week was like last night, I would not pay 10 bucks for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 No, at the end where they said "fuck you if you think anyone but Triple J gets to look good tonight". -Patrick Triple J jobbed tonight, so he didn't exactly look good. Only after A.J.'s interference, and he spent the rest of the night regaining his heat by screwing over all his potential challengers. -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 And the Styles comment is wrong. He's not better than Paul London. Are you being serious? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 No, at the end where they said "fuck you if you think anyone but Triple J gets to look good tonight". -Patrick What the hell are you talking about. This type of comment takes away credibility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Peter_Griffin Report post Posted December 18, 2003 And the Styles comment is wrong. He's not better than Paul London. Are you being serious? I agree that London is better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 And the Styles comment is wrong. He's not better than Paul London. Are you being serious? I agree that London is better. Better at what? AJ is so much more polished, but that's just my opinion I guess. I don't even think they're close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Peter_Griffin Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Better at what? Polishing rockets. What do you think ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedJed 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I thought the show wasnt too bad at all last night really. The only thing that really bugged me was the run-ins all over the place. I thought this was one thing that would be best served for purpose, and having the same guys run in almost every match (like the Red Shirts) defeats ANY purpose other than forcefeeding the fans into buying these losers into main event talent. Well, it aint workin! Another thing that kind of bothered me was that I thought maybe this big news from Jarrett would be announced tonight. Plus no follow up with guys like Hart and Piper at all. Seemed odd considering they were a reasonably big part of the shows lately. The opening was pretty good, and Sting/Jarrett was ok for what it was. Likely a rematch on the 7th for the title, I would assume. Is anyone really getting sick of Watts though? He has nothing to offer in this stupid role, they should just turn him heel with Callis. Plus he kind of rambles in his promos and isnt very crisp. X division matches were pretty good, sans the run ins, again. Fucking Michael Shane of course blew a few spots, and then looked to blow out Traci's knee or something when he dropped her. F'n dumbshit. Daniels-Sabin was strong, like a few others, I could have handled more time with this one (even 5 more minutes). I like that Skipper is playing this tweener role at the time, makes you wonder where that will lead. Am looking forward to Ultimate X though, should be great. The tag matches.....the street fight was pretty well done I thought. Good work by all of them. I liked the angle after the match too (only real good point to a run-in there). I dont need to see Red Shirts and AMW in a feud really, but I guess they had to segway somehow into a new program. This might lead to Harris going solo after Jarrett in the months to come. The "dream match" was just kind of there. There was no heat here at all. The main event was the same way, no fucking heat up until the last 5 or so minutes. The run ins here didnt need to happen, just made for this chaotic confusing situation. Maybe built up that Raven was going to win even more, but it almost made it too predictable what was going to happen. Like I've said before, I'm not too thrilled myself with Punk-Raven, but I'm glad to see the turn finally happened, just so they can progress with this. They sure are building this Raven title shot though, thats good to see as long as the feud with Punk doesnt go forever. I cant help but still be critical of TNA even after a decent show like this. This still isnt up to the level of the shows I used to see them put out week after week consistently. Two major issues that I have at this point. 1. This roster is very small and depleted. I assume thats because all of these guys are moreless under contract and they are trying to build around them. The thing is should some of them be even used full time in the first place. I hate this concept of his heel faction of Jarrett, Abyss, Red Shirts, Kash, Disco, blah blah blah as some sort of dominating force here. It makes the roster look that much weaker. And I'm seeing a lot of forcefed pushes that arent working (Abyss, Kash, etc). Guys that are back like D-Lo seem to already be stale in just a weeks time in their role. How is that possible? If you have a small roster, you have to make the most out of what you have, and other than the exception being the 4 guys in the X title hunt, I just dont see them using their talent to their potential for the most part. Plus the crowds have been downright dead in the past month or two and thats never a good sign. Either the Jarretts have to step in to offer more assistance with Mantel or they need someone else in to assist as well like Russo. I'd be willing to give Russo another chance as long as he's not booking by himself like he was before. I always have said if Russo is working alongside someone equally, I dont have a problem with his work. When him and Jerry/Jeff were working side by side back earlier in the year, more times than not, those shows were good. 2. The other problem is how they layout the matches. It has seemed that as of late, the matches seem more formulmatic, almost akin to WWE styles per usual. I dont see much of anything alternative in terms of actual wrestling compared to the WWE as of late, it just seems very much like an "A leads to B" type of matches lately. TNA never used to be like this, and if anything, it seemed like they just let their guys go out there and bust their ass. Maybe I'm wrong but has it became different? And I dont know who's fault that is either, it may not neccessarily be Mantels. Also, they have no excuse for giving some of these matches more time. Someone else noted there hasnt been a 20 minute match in a long time and thats true. I dont think its much to ask to have a handful of longer matches a month as long as its a big match that is warranted. Ultimate X 2 for example. I'd much rather see less match filler a week, and have 4 or 5 longer matches a week. Can they fucking eliminate the recaps from the weeks before finally too? Thats getting old, especially since most of their base get these shows every week AND they have a 30 minute countdown that shows most of the same stuff even before the show starts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Better at what? Polishing rockets. What do you think ? No, I think AJ polishes rockets better. What I meant is what exactly is London better at? I guess you just think he's a better wrestler. I'm talking about spots, transitions, psychology. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Last night's show was a VERY solid one. This show did have WAY too many run in's but I guess you take the good with the bad. I actually am curious to see if they somehow can improve the Ultimate X match as well. Sting going over actually was a surprise to me, until they made sure to say it was NON TITLE!!!!! But the Punk/Julio turn was booked well IMO, but Jarrett's repeated attempts to go over by doing 5567 run-in's was bullshit though. I would have rather see him beat Sting than seeing him hurt all the matches. But I really did think the show had promise and was probably the best wrestling I saw this week(Example: RAW & PPV). I guess I can be happy for that........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted December 18, 2003 I'm officially taking Jeff Jarrett off of the FUCK list, as I felt he was SOLID tonight. His opening promo was his best promo in nearly a year, I feel, and the work I did see of Sting/Jarrett (I fell asleep about halfway through, and woke up halfway through the AJ/D'lo vs. Simon/Swinger match) wasn't too offensive. And I'm bolding/underlining/italicizing "Mantel's shitty booking." :applauds:: I am by no means a Jarrett mark, but it's cool than people can work their ways off the list. But also I guess that means that they can work their way back on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest vicvenomjr Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Oh man.... Classic Atheletes? The Red Shirt Security? *****Northcutt is better than almost any big man in the WWE and Legend has always been considered a solid rassler/athlete. And what if I don't like seeing wrestlers that can have better regular matches being shoved into circus acts? A regular 4-way with 20 minutes would be better than a rope-climbing contest, why not just have the regular match? *****Because it's evolution of the product and makes for better TV to the average fan. The TWO BEST TAG TEAMS IN THE WORLD? Are you on drugs? Or do you see nothing other than TNA and WWE? Half of the teams entered in the PWG tourney in January are better than any team in TNA. *****Yes I do and no I still think AMW and Simon and Swinger are the best. And the Styles comment is wrong. He's not better than Paul London. Not that London is really on SD, anyways. The irony of this point is that Chris Daniels is better than AJ Styles, you should be making the point using Daniels. *****I did, saying theyw ere better than anyone on Raw. By the way, what makes JJ a solid main event champ? *****heat grabber The groan every time he wins? *****heat His lack of any good matches since his match with Raven? *****come on, both matches with Styles. His midcard-for-life stigma that will never go away? *****I don't see that by I suspend my previous misconceptions on all rasslers. I refuse to appreciate a product just because it's better than shit (Raw). TNA is like dry dog shit to the WWE's wet dog shit. *****how? And once again, you have to pay 10 bucks a show, so it SHOULD be way better than Raw. *****it is , every week. TNA could be so, so much more. *****like what? With Raven, Daniels and AMW title runs on the horizon what more do you want. They have access to every Indy wrestler in the U.S. that would love to get on nat'l TV. How can the show *not* be great? *****I think it is great and you've yet to say how it isn't. TNA last night was a decent show. *****you'll never be happy. Decent is not good enough when you're paying. If every week was like last night, I would not pay 10 bucks for it. *****Seriously you haven't answered this what more do you want? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Yeah, you are paying for it, but remember, other people are paying for it too. Maybe some people would like a short X-Division match and then a dramatic main event and some would like a long X-D match and a short main event. But you would still complain about that right cause the main event is supposed to be the main attraction. Then you go on a say "Hey, it IS Michael Shane". WTF would you want to watch a 20 minute Michael Shane match for is you and everyone else here doesn't like him? That doesn't make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist Report post Posted December 18, 2003 A lot of the Micheal Shane hate stems from the fact that Shane ROH and Shane TNA appear to be two different wrestlers. Either that or the hicks can appreciate pure wrestling, and Shane dogs it deliberately, and people get on his case for it. For the record, of all the TNA stuff I've seen, I haven't seen any of Shane's stuff (apart from the ultimate X debacle), but I liked him in ROH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
