YOLT, The Rock, and Internet Hypocrisy

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I was watching the bonus documentary Inside You Only Live Twice, on the DVD for... you guessed it: You Only Live Twice, when it said that champion wrestler Peter Mavia had played the "Sumo" thug that fought Bond (Connery, in this film) in the offices of the Osato Corperation about 20 minutes into the movie. That got me wondering: How come Hollywood can cast Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians, and Englishmen to play the same part, or a Hawaian wrestler to play a Japanese thug and nobody complains, but every single time Vince McMahon gets a Somoan to play another race or an Asian American to play an anti-American character everyone complains about how awful it is (AndrewTS is guilty of this amongst many others on this board)?

 

Is it because these people are too stupid to realize wrestling is worked? Is it because they have the urge to bitch about whatever they can? Is it because they can't get it through their fucking skulls that if you LOOK and SPEAK like a character who's one nationality or another it doesn't matter if you really ARE that nationality?

[Highland 0]

I think it has more to do with the fact that such stereotypes have always been used by promoters and we'd like to see a change from the norm, that's all.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I think it has more to do with the fact that such stereotypes have always been used by promoters and we'd like to see a change from the norm, that's all.

Then I think maybe that's what you people should say instead of making "witty" (and I use THAT term very loosely) remarks about how using an American of Island descent to play a Japanese man is JUST *SO* OFFENSIVE AND HORRIBLE.

[Damaramu 0]

Zsasz....lighten up. You bitch about us more than we bitch about WWE.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Zsasz....lighten up. You bitch about us more than we bitch about WWE.

You know what's sad? If someone tried to defend the WWE that way... they'd be called an apologist.

 

Also, I deserve some fucking recognition... nay... reverent AWE mixed with mild disgust because of the way in which I effortlessly use James Bond to lead into any number of topics.

[the pinjockey 0]

I thought more people are usually upset that stereotypes get used 90% of the time (ex. Samoans are wildmen, Japanese people are all the same and can't speak English, stealing cars is like riding a bike for black guys). Not that they don't get used enough.

 

I never thought people had a problem with people playing another race/character as long as it was done well. Looking back at the WWE Top 50 thread, people seem to like Yokozuna, because he was a well made monster and noone seemed to bitch that he was a samoan playing a sumo character.

 

If the character is done poorly and the actor/wrestler can't do the character well (which is very common in wrestling where people aren't the best actors), it is always going to get bitched about, whether it be movies/tv/wrestling.

Edited December 28, 2003 by the pinjockey

[Guest JMA]

Looking back at the WWE Top 50 thread, people seem to like Yokozuna, because he was a well made monster and noone seemed to bitch that he was a samoan playing a sumo character.

Yeah, but aren't there a large number of Samoan sumo wrestlers who speak Japanese? It doesn't seem that much of a stretch.

[razazteca 0]

A famous sumo grand champion is Hawiian.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

A famous sumo grand champion is Hawiian.

In the film it was pretty clear this guy was supposed to be Japanese. The "sumo thug" designation only comes from his bodytype. How would a gaijin get a job as a hitman for one of Japan's top corperations?

[clean rob 0]

Is it because they have the urge to bitch about whatever they can?

I would assume that you have been on this board long enough to know the answer to that question.

[Fökai 0]

A famous sumo grand champion is Hawiian.

...and he's (Akebono) slated to fight Bob Sapp in a K-1 match on 01/02/2004.

 

Two of Hawaii's sumotori have achieved yokozuna, or "grand champion" status - Akebono (real name: Chad Rowan) and Musashimaru (Fiamalu Penitani).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry...the opportunity to go on a factual tangent was too much to resist, coming from a fellow Hawaiian and avid sumo fan.

[Anya 0]

How would a gaijin get a job as a hitman for one of Japan's top corperations?

Well, Scaramanga managed.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Well, as I understand it, a lot of Hawaiian people have Japanese blood in them and tend to look Japanese, so its a bit more plausable than say, the Chinese guy in the yakuza

[AndrewTS 0]

A famous sumo grand champion is Hawiian.

In the film it was pretty clear this guy was supposed to be Japanese. The "sumo thug" designation only comes from his bodytype. How would a gaijin get a job as a hitman for one of Japan's top corperations?

Because he's just that, a "thug" and not really anyone with any true power within the organization? If you're just a thug or an assassin, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what nationality or race you are if you can do the job. If they'd be giving you actual power, it would be a factor.

 

Also, Yokozuna was supposed to represent Japan, but was billed as being Polynesian. It's not that implausable as you make it out to be in your strawman.

 

That got me wondering: How come Hollywood can cast Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians, and Englishmen to play the same part,[/

 

In the above case, maybe it's because they are ALMOST ALL WHITE ANGLO-SAXONS? All they need to do is to get the accent down and a British guy can play an American convincingly, and so forth.

 

or a Hawaian wrestler to play a Japanese thug and nobody complains, but every single time Vince McMahon gets a Somoan to play another race or an Asian American to play an anti-American character everyone complains about how awful it is (AndrewTS is guilty of this amongst many others on this board)?

 

Make up your mind: it is "everyone" or me and many others? Also, what's the point of naming names other than--oh yeah, because you don't like me, and feel like making yourself feel better by trying to make me look foolish.

 

I've also never said how awful or offensive it was. I've just said that Samoans are Vince's favorite minority, because he likes to use them to stand-in for any other minorities he needs to fill a gimmick.

 

Also, since Yang isn't being made to speak in broken Japlish and I'm not watching SD anyway at this point, I don't even care.

 

However, would it kill Vince to cast an American as an American rather than play off xenophobia and racism? That would be refreshing, don't you think?

 

Well, at least Vince has improved for fear of potential serious backlash. He hasn't taken an African American wrestler, dressed him up like a savage or tribal villager, and had him go down to the ring chucking spears or anything in a while.

 

Is it because they can't get it through their fucking skulls that if you LOOK and SPEAK like a character who's one nationality or another it doesn't matter if you really ARE that nationality?

 

But if don't look or speak like a character who is another nationality? Exactly. Quit trying to misrepresent other people's opinions to make yourself look correct.

 

Also, I deserve some fucking recognition... nay... reverent AWE mixed with mild disgust because of the way in which I effortlessly use James Bond to lead into any number of topics.

 

I'll give you the mild disgust part.

Edited December 28, 2003 by AndrewTS

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

How would a gaijin get a job as a hitman for one of Japan's top corperations?

Well, Scaramanga managed.

No he didn't

 

Hai Phat wasn't Japanese.

[Cran Da Maniac 0]

Well, at least Vince has improved for fear of potential serious backlash. He hasn't taken an African American wrestler, dressed him up like a savage or tribal villager, and had him go down to the ring chucking spears or anything in a while.

Saba Simba?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

A famous sumo grand champion is Hawiian.

In the film it was pretty clear this guy was supposed to be Japanese. The "sumo thug" designation only comes from his bodytype. How would a gaijin get a job as a hitman for one of Japan's top corperations?

Because he's just that, a "thug" and not really anyone with any true power within the organization? If you're just a thug or an assassin, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what nationality or race you are if you can do the job. If they'd be giving you actual power, it would be a factor.

 

Also, Yokozuna was supposed to represent Japan, but was billed as being Polynesian. It's not that implausable as you make it out to be in your strawman.

 

That got me wondering: How come Hollywood can cast Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians, and Englishmen to play the same part,[/

 

In the above case, maybe it's because they are ALMOST ALL WHITE ANGLO-SAXONS? All they need to do is to get the accent down and a British guy can play an American convincingly, and so forth.

 

or a Hawaian wrestler to play a Japanese thug and nobody complains, but every single time Vince McMahon gets a Somoan to play another race or an Asian American to play an anti-American character everyone complains about how awful it is (AndrewTS is guilty of this amongst many others on this board)?

 

Make up your mind: it is "everyone" or me and many others? Also, what's the point of naming names other than--oh yeah, because you don't like me, and feel like making yourself feel better by trying to make me look foolish.

 

I've also never said how awful or offensive it was. I've just said that Samoans are Vince's favorite minority, because he likes to use them to stand-in for any other minorities he needs to fill a gimmick.

 

Also, since Yang isn't being made to speak in broken Japlish and I'm not watching SD anyway at this point, I don't even care.

 

However, would it kill Vince to cast an American as an American rather than play off xenophobia and racism? That would be refreshing, don't you think?

 

Well, at least Vince has improved for fear of potential serious backlash. He hasn't taken an African American wrestler, dressed him up like a savage or tribal villager, and had him go down to the ring chucking spears or anything in a while.

 

Is it because they can't get it through their fucking skulls that if you LOOK and SPEAK like a character who's one nationality or another it doesn't matter if you really ARE that nationality?

 

But if don't look or speak like a character who is another nationality? Exactly. Quit trying to misrepresent other people's opinions to make yourself look correct.

 

Also, I deserve some fucking recognition... nay... reverent AWE mixed with mild disgust because of the way in which I effortlessly use James Bond to lead into any number of topics.

 

I'll give you the mild disgust part.

1. So what does it matter if some jobber isn't really from Japan, Andrew? It's just a character he plays on TV. He has no real power, he's in a 5th rate stable on the number 4 show the company produces.

 

You're beaten at this one.

 

2. So, you now admit that it's fine for anyone of Asian (and Asia's pretty big) descent can play a Japanese guy right? If not, explain your racial double standard now, please.

 

3. No, because your inane whinings about this subject inspired the post.

 

4. I wish you were half as clever as I was, then this would be a challenge.

[AndrewTS 0]

1. So what does it matter if some jobber isn't really from Japan, Andrew? It's just a character he plays on TV. He has no real power, he's in a 5th rate stable on the number 4 show the company produces.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I was making the point that in the movie example you gave, the character wasn't necessary a Japanese character nor did he need to be. In WWE's faux-Yakuza, their rank is unknown (they could be high-ranking for all we know), but that could be dependent on whatever the hell they're doing. Although I honestly don't know if there's any actual reason that Tajiri would be assisted by the Yakuza other than "Yakuza" is a new Japanese stereotype Vince learned. Is there some objective that they're trying to accomplish?

 

2. So, you now admit that it's fine for anyone of Asian (and Asia's pretty big) descent can play a Japanese guy right? If not, explain your racial double standard now, please.

 

You're saying everyone that is Asian looks and sounds alike? Nope, that's not true. Your persons of Anglo-Saxon descent generally look alike and can learn to sound alike, however, they aren't necessarily going to look like a typical Spaniard, or Russian, or German, etc. Plus, their native languages could be a serious barrier to sounding like another nationality. They're all white though! It should always work! Everyone that's a member of a given race looks and sounds exactly the same! Zsa Zsa said so! He's always right!

 

I know, let's have a Jew play a Neo-Nazi. That should work!

 

All Asians don't look alike. Hell, not even all Japanese look alike, because there is a notable difference in appearance to Japanese from southern Japan and northern Japan. So Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, and Thais don't all look alike. Japanese themselves can single out and will ostracize a Chinese person because they simply don't all look alike. Your typical WWE mark is a moron who thinks they all look alike though, so if that's the point you're trying to make, agreed on that point.

 

As for sounding alike--yeah, I'm sure a native born Asian American is fluent enough to sound like a Japanese person. This part is somewhat of a non-issue because they never let them talk, but you did bring that point up. At the time though, we'd assumed they'd be talking, to explain themselves. I don't think anyone right now actually knows what the hell their mission in WWE is though, so SOMEONE talking would be helpful if they wanted to push the angle at all.

 

3. No, because your inane whinings about this subject inspired the post.

 

So, my opinions on the subject prompted you to restate your inane whinings you already made previously in a new post, correct? Only in this case you provided an example of a modern cinema classic and bastion of political correctness, some James Bond flick. What-the-hell-ever.

 

If you think your viewpoint is so valid, why do you have to resort to insulting other people while stating it? Doing so just makes you look like a jackass.

 

Zsa Zsa says: you disagree with me, and I'm right, so you're a moron. I will now abandon discussion of the subject and resort to insults.

 

4. I wish you were half as clever as I was, then this would be a challenge.

 

If you were clever, why would you have to constantly tell us so?

 

Zsa Zsa says: I've clever damnit! I'm really clever! If I keep telling people so enough times maybe they'll believe me!

Edited December 29, 2003 by AndrewTS