The Orton Obsession

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I think the Orton bashing has increased due to the fact that Nathan Jones left the company.

[Papacita 0]

Only real problem I have with Orton is that he's billed as something special when he hasn't really done anything. Maybe if they played up the fact that he's undeserving, or billed him as a spoiled kid who's getting everything handed to him due to his family, he'd get more of a reaction.

[2GOLD 0]

Give him a mirror and Lex Luger's old robe and I might buy his character.

 

I'd still think he was a waste of space in the ring but at least I'd buy he thinks he is god's gift to man.

 

Maybe have him walk down with a mirror in one hand and a Vince/Triple H picture in the other so he can hold it up to his face and say, "They know"

 

But right now? He has minimal ring talent, his mic skills are slowly getting caught by Lita, he has a forever smug face and soaks up boos that aren't happening, and he is overexposed like Rocky was only he doesn't have the skill to pull himself out of the fire like Rocky did.

 

Not to mention, Rocky was overexposed as a face and not a heel.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Sometimes I feel embarassed for Orton, always having to walk to the ring without any kind of response from the crowd.

The worst is when he does his little "soaking in the boos" pose..when no one is booing.

 

It's kind of sad,

What do you expect him to do? Not do anythin because the crowd isn't. That won't help.

 

Basically, Orton's lack of overness isn't ALL his own fault.

 

I've said so many times, for the T.V time Orton gets, what have they really DONE with him to get him over? When so far in his 'legend killing stick', he has two cheap as a crackwhore wins over Shawn Michaels that failed to elevate him...a bait and switch with Foley, where all he was allowed to do to Mick was spit on him...he hit his finisher on some basketball team owner for cheap heat, rather than you know, develop his character a bit...hell, they didn't even let him have 50% of the offense in that shitfest with Slaughter. For all the T.V time he gets, he's still seen as HHH's lackey, or at best Flair's lackey. Hell, most people probably see him as Batista's lackey. His biggest clean win was over 'RVMe'. After that, it's probably Val Venis. It wouldn't be so bad if they pushed him down our throats by making him look good, rather than just throwing the kid out there and basically saying 'we'll let you work with Flair and HHH, that'll get you over', and then give him a half assed push.

 

He's still green, and basically Orton has been treated like a higher profile Gail Kim. Throw him out there and hope he gets over.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

It has to do with the God push they're giving to him, I assume. if he was just an upper midcard heel, there probably wouldn't be that much problem.

[King Cucaracha 0]

It has to do with the God push they're giving to him, I assume. if he was just an upper midcard heel, there probably wouldn't be that much problem.

*yawns*

 

It's NOT a God push.

[Betty Houle 0]

Sounds to me like Randy Orton is one of the most over heels among Smarks. The WWE did a good job.

I don't think the reation WWE was going for with Orton was, "Get that guy off my TV screen NOW."

Everytime the internet people hate someone (X-Pac, Nash, Orton, HHH) it's always in a bad way. It's always in a get-him-off-my-tv way. It's never heat. It's never a good thing.

[razazteca 0]

All of the HHH hate has been transfered to his protege, Randy Orton who just can't do anything right. It took of all things a random WTF, why is Kane doing a walk in, to get a crowd reaction for the match of Booker T vs Orton.

 

Lets face facts here TWO of the biggest faces in WWE (Foley and Goldust) could not get Orton over, I think its time to stop the Legend Killer gimmick and make him gay or just release him.

[Guest Anglesault]

It has to do with the God push they're giving to him, I assume. if he was just an upper midcard heel, there probably wouldn't be that much problem.

*yawns*

 

It's NOT a God push.

We're getting close to that point.

 

if he was just an upper midcard heel, there probably wouldn't be that much problem

 

He's not over enough to be in the upper card

[justcoz 0]

I've said so many times, for the T.V time Orton gets, what have they really DONE with him to get him over? When so far in his 'legend killing stick', he has two cheap as a crackwhore wins over Shawn Michaels that failed to elevate him...a bait and switch with Foley, where all he was allowed to do to Mick was spit on him...he hit his finisher on some basketball team owner for cheap heat, rather than you know, develop his character a bit...hell, they didn't even let him have 50% of the offense in that shitfest with Slaughter. For all the T.V time he gets, he's still seen as HHH's lackey, or at best Flair's lackey. Hell, most people probably see him as Batista's lackey. His biggest clean win was over 'RVMe'. After that, it's probably Val Venis. It wouldn't be so bad if they pushed him down our throats by making him look good, rather than just throwing the kid out there and basically saying 'we'll let you work with Flair and HHH, that'll get you over', and then give him a half assed push.

 

He's still green, and basically Orton has been treated like a higher profile Gail Kim. Throw him out there and hope he gets over.

 

AMEN!!!!

 

This is not a God like push. It's a push but not a God like push. In many ways it's similar to saying that WWE gave Chris Jericho a God like push when he was Undisputed Champion. He may have had the tv time and gold but the push didn't legitimize him to the marks - he was seen as a coward who got lucky and didn't deserve his spot and the attention.

 

It's obvious that WWE want to push Randy Orton as their new young star and they probably do believe that they are giving him a God like push but it's f*cked up just like the majority of things they try. WWE logic has Randy Orton getting instant elevation and heel heat because he's aligned with Ric Flair and HHH. True to some degree but you could stick Stevie Richards in the same role as lackey as well and it would get the same response. That doesn't mean Stevie Richards will become the next Rock.

 

It's laziness on the creative end.

 

He has tainted wins over Shawn Michaels and defeated the legend that is Sgt. Slaughter in a match where he got his ass handed to him the majority of the time by someone who hasn't been a full time competitor since 1993. He's thrown Mick Foley down stairs and spit in his face. But his only legit win in a match is over RVD who, despite being over, has been jobbed out countless times in the past. Booker T has been jobbed as well and Randy couldn't get a clean win over him in an IC Title defense. Not only did he need Mark Henry's help but Kane's as well.

 

The Rock was shoved down people's throats as a face and got his heel heat from that. Today's creative team would have aligned The Rock with heel DX probably out of laziness. Rock was instead put in a role where his arrogance made him a leader of the mid card group he was put into (NOD). And it can't be denied that he had more charisma and ability going for him than Orton. Randy showed a lot of charisma in his RNN skits which were praised in smarkland but he's been booked to be nothing more than a lackey who gets lucky with everyone's help and the marks have acted accordingly.

 

I'm not saying he's going to be the star that WWE hopes he will be but that's just as much due to weak booking than his own faults which could be covered up with strong booking.

 

LISTEN TO PNR ON LIVE 365

[Guest Anglesault]

AMEN!!!!

 

This is not a God like push. It's a push but not a God like push. In many ways it's similar to saying that WWE gave Chris Jericho a God like push when he was Undisputed Champion. He may have had the tv time and gold but the push didn't legitimize him to the marks -

Big difference is that Jericho as an over character who was getting completely shafted.

 

Orton is a heatless sack who has no business being as high on the card as he is

[Guest wildpegasus]

Compared to his talent level, Orton is getting a push beyond pushes. I wouldn't mind him if he was lower on the card but he is the ultimate example of WWE pushing someone down the throats of the fans while the wrestlers the fans want pushed up to the top won't get the push. Therefore, he is getting a monster push. I don't really think anyone can deny that.

 

But than again, there are a lot of people that get pushes that their talent levels don't deserve while other people are left in the dust.

Edited January 1, 2004 by wildpegasus

[Guest wildpegasus]

I've said so many times, for the T.V time Orton gets, what have they really DONE with him to get him over? When so far in his 'legend killing stick', he has two cheap as a crackwhore wins over Shawn Michaels that failed to elevate him...a bait and switch with Foley, where all he was allowed to do to Mick was spit on him...he hit his finisher on some basketball team owner for cheap heat, rather than you know, develop his character a bit...hell, they didn't even let him have 50% of the offense in that shitfest with Slaughter. For all the T.V time he gets, he's still seen as HHH's lackey, or at best Flair's lackey. Hell, most people probably see him as Batista's lackey. His biggest clean win was over 'RVMe'. After that, it's probably Val Venis. It wouldn't be so bad if they pushed him down our throats by making him look good, rather than just throwing the kid out there and basically saying 'we'll let you work with Flair and HHH, that'll get you over', and then give him a half assed push.

 

He's still green, and basically Orton has been treated like a higher profile Gail Kim. Throw him out there and hope he gets over.

 

AMEN!!!!

 

This is not a God like push. It's a push but not a God like push. In many ways it's similar to saying that WWE gave Chris Jericho a God like push when he was Undisputed Champion. He may have had the tv time and gold but the push didn't legitimize him to the marks - he was seen as a coward who got lucky and didn't deserve his spot and the attention.

 

It's obvious that WWE want to push Randy Orton as their new young star and they probably do believe that they are giving him a God like push but it's f*cked up just like the majority of things they try. WWE logic has Randy Orton getting instant elevation and heel heat because he's aligned with Ric Flair and HHH. True to some degree but you could stick Stevie Richards in the same role as lackey as well and it would get the same response. That doesn't mean Stevie Richards will become the next Rock.

 

It's laziness on the creative end.

 

He has tainted wins over Shawn Michaels and defeated the legend that is Sgt. Slaughter in a match where he got his ass handed to him the majority of the time by someone who hasn't been a full time competitor since 1993. He's thrown Mick Foley down stairs and spit in his face. But his only legit win in a match is over RVD who, despite being over, has been jobbed out countless times in the past. Booker T has been jobbed as well and Randy couldn't get a clean win over him in an IC Title defense. Not only did he need Mark Henry's help but Kane's as well.

 

Those tainted victories are to be expected. It fits into Orton's heel charactor.

 

I'm pretty sure Richards would do a better job than Orton if he was in that role.

 

Those tainted victories are to be expected. It fits into Orton's heel charactor.

 

I'm pretty sure Richards would do a better job than Orton if he was in that role.

[Guest Douche]

It's hardly bad booking. I agree it's not a God push. They gave that to Brock and it didn't work until a year later. However they're actually giving Orton a lot to do for someone who hasn't proved much. I personally don't see why people like RNN but don't like him now.

 

IT'S THE SAME FUCKING GUY WITH THE SAME CHARISMA.

 

I didn't like him then and don't like him now. The legend killer is a bad gimmick to begin with as Vince has a hard-on for when his company was good but Randy can't do it good either. Despite the fact that he's made beloved forever over Foley his bitch for a while now, people still don't care about him. It's not a big push but what has he been given?

 

IC Title

 

Part of a 6 Man Main Event as the WWE's 2nd Biggest PPV of the year

 

The fall over Shawn Michaels that cost Austin his job

 

A victory over Shawn (tainted victory can't be used as a counter argument because that's what should be done to give him heel heat)

 

The opening interview which only people like Austin, Vince, nWo, Bischoff, DX, etc. have gotten in both WCW and WWF/E.

 

He threw Foley down steps after Foley's big celebration ceremony with the vignette and commemorative belt

 

He called Foley shit and spat in his face to end a RAW

 

He was put in a segment with Vince just so Keibler could put over his looks

 

Plenty of stuff he shouldn't have been given.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

RNN was funny with his "60% healed status" and whatever statements.

 

 

And he interrupted HHH walking backstage with an RNN News Break!

[Guest Jimbo]

RNN = midcard gmimmick stuff (where Orton belongs)

 

Evolution Orton = uppercard spot he is not ready for at all

[2GOLD 0]

RNN was good cause it distracted us from the crap and he wasn't wrestling or becoming Luger Version 2.0

[Guest Anglesault]

RNN = midcard gmimmick stuff (where Orton belongs)

Judging by his reaction, midcard is a litle high

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

RNN = midcard gmimmick stuff (where Orton belongs)

Judging by his reaction, midcard is a litle high

Orton wasn't mid card then. He had matches versus STEVIE RICHARDS (and hes Heat) and Lance Storm (also on Heat now).

 

That would be lower-midcard, or in some cases, Curtain Jerker.

[Guest Anglesault]

RNN = midcard gmimmick stuff (where Orton belongs)

Judging by his reaction, midcard is a litle high

Orton wasn't mid card then. He had matches versus STEVIE RICHARDS (and hes Heat) and Lance Storm (also on Heat now).

 

That would be lower-midcard, or in some cases, Curtain Jerker.

Right now, Stevie is more over than him. If Stevie is L-midcard, so should Orton.

 

Lower midcard is where Orton belongs.

[the pinjockey 0]

I never understand when RNN segments come into arguements. You mean with pre-production and the ability to have multiple takes he can have some charisma? Wow.

 

I enjoyed the RNN bits and was looking forward to seeing what transpired when he came back. His first night back he gets in the ring with Y2J and HBK, stumbles over his lines, and the pretty packaging that was being used in the RNN segments really gets accentuated.

[jester 0]

I think the reason more people liked the RNN sketches is because they actually suited what was going on with Orton.

 

With RNN, Orton was carrying on like he's A BIG IMPORTANT GUY...but in truth nobody cares about him, so he gets heat when he interrupts things to go on about himself. It was like a writer said "He'll get heat by acting much bigger than he actually is, and fans will boo him."

 

With Evolution Orton, WWE carries on like he's AN EVEN MORE IMPORTANT GUY...but without the irony. They don't actually believe that Orton is a guy acting too big for his britches. They actually believe he is an important guy doing important things...but he isn't doing anything particularly noteworthy.

 

Basically King Cucharacha got it right. WWE *thinks* they are giving him a God push. They aren't. They're giving him the exposure of a god push but without any accomplishments.

Edited January 1, 2004 by jester

[the pinjockey 0]

I'll agree that the RNN segments and timing were done well and that it made the character work. And that the irony in that character was much better than the bluster without irony character he is now.

 

I just didn't like the idea that because Orton showed some charisma in those segments meant he is that same charasmatic guy. I think it was shown pretty quickly once he came back, that there was a lot of pretty packaging in those segments that helped Orton out a lot.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I remember when he came in, and he used that ultra weird finisher(Orton Driver?) and he was just running this nice clean cut babyface gimmick, and he wasn't bad for lower midcard on Smackdown. That's where he belongs, and I think he actually got a pop back then, so why not try again? It's better than this Rock wannabe style they've been using. De-push and repackage. It's his best shot. Have him get destroyed by Kane and have him be taken off in an ambulance, keep him off TV for a month or two, maybe spend that time in OVW working out a new gimmick(I'm just saying I liked the clean cut 3rd generation one, but he can do better I'm sure) and then have him open up Smackdown sometime and I don't know, maybe team him with Tommy Dreamer and throw him into the tag scene. They need soem more teams, anyways.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Basically King Cucharacha got it right. WWE *thinks* they are giving him a God push. They aren't. They're giving him the exposure of a god push but without any accomplishments.

Exactly. I'm sure Foley could have put him slightly more over(which would be a major improvement right now) on Raw if they went with the match. But they screwed it over so they could bring Austin back.

 

The WWE needs to make their mind up. One minute Orton's the cowardly heel...the next, hes a legend killer...then cowardly heel again...then he's being billed as the next Triple H. If they wanted cowardly heel Orton, they blew it by having Foley walk away from him. If they wanted super-star, cocky Orton, they blew it as soon as he needed Batista and Flair's help to get his three most important victories.

 

And I agree with MMoM, the best thing the WWE could do would be send him back down to OVW for a while. Have Evolution injure him. Orton comes back as a midcard face, gets a clean win over Flair and then build from there to a HHH/Orton match at Mania 21 if they're dead set on it.

 

Of course, doing that would make Orton a WWE made failure, and Vince wouldn't want that.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Orton is still green and the sad thing all the fans know it, that's why when he comes out with Evolution he looks so out of place. I personally think that he needs to either go back to OVW or Heat where he belongs. I don't hate the guy but he is just not ready for the major leagues, and RNN was funny at the time but that was then and he has been exposed in the mic too.