Brett Favre Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. Ur comparing the camel clutch, a move u can basically rollover from to a move where someone is thrusting your leg over his shoulder while sitting on you, AFTER HE HIT YOU WITH A FREAKING CHAIR!?
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 Actually Benoit snapping and becoming the "silent, but deadly" badass does differntiate it from HHH/Booker. Because Booker was loud when he snapped? Because Booker didn't make HHH afraid of him. He seemed scared the week before he proved that black men aren't a good (aka Mania) when Flair had to repeatedly tell him he was the best. Benoit's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to hit faces (ie Austin) when he's going after his goal Booker's relentless quest for the belt forcing him to fight faces (ie Steiner) when he's going after his goal You missed the point. What I was suggesting was make Benoit a volatile badass who would attack without warning wherever Evolution was. That's not what Booker did. Booker got a meaningless win in a tag match and was beat down by Evolution most of the time anyway. He didn't look particularily strong in the build to that match anyway. He had to fight Steiner in a match, and Steiner wasn't really that over anyway. I was talking about Benoit just taking out whoever was in his way. Being an impartial machine of destruction.
Guest Anglesault Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?"
Guest Askewniverse Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 Wait...so people are pissed at the possibility of Benoit beating HHH for a title, just because it's meaningless? Are these the same people who bitched about HHH not dropping that same title to RVD and Booker T?
CanadianChick Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. I don't know...it worked for Austin pretty well.
RavishingRickRudo Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 All it takes for Benoit to "effect" Lesnar is going back to that footage, going back to Lesnar making the promise during the show, and saying "You did not beat me".
godthedog Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. cause steve austin proved himself to be such a pussy at WM13.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. Ur comparing the camel clutch, a move u can basically rollover from to a move where someone is thrusting your leg over his shoulder while sitting on you, AFTER HE HIT YOU WITH A FREAKING CHAIR!? Yeah man, because in 1984 the Camel Clutch was pretty much the most feared move in the WWF after Bob Backlund couldn't get out of it and needed Skaaland to throw in the towel for him. Hogan wanted the title so much that he reached down to his "fighting spirit" and broke out. If Benoit had the fighting spirit of a champion he would've done the same. Of course it's all kayfabed anyway, but still.
iliketurtles Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. The smart marks are gunna buy Mania either way. The marks/casual fans would want to see something like Brock/Goldberg instead of Brock/Benoit.
Lil' Bitch Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. I'm looking realistic at the situation. Brock is a 295 lbs. sitting on Benoit. He either tapped out or passed out. He was too far from the ropes. There was no escape. And as much as painful as it looked, tapping out would have only hurt Benoit more.
RavishingRickRudo Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 Well, Benoit tapped against Angle for the title at RR03 - he refused to tap against Brock on Smackdown - wouldn'tcha think the natural evolution would be for Benoit to get out of it in his title win??? That's what we called "buildin"..
Guest Anglesault Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I was talking about Benoit just taking out whoever was in his way. Being an impartial machine of destruction. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, how does attacking the bigget face in the history of the business help get someone over as a face?
CanadianChick Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. The smart marks are gunna buy Mania either way. The marks/casual fans would want to see something like Brock/Goldberg instead of Brock/Benoit. Just wondering, what indication are you going by with that statement? Just an assumption?
Guest wildpegasus Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. Ur comparing the camel clutch, a move u can basically rollover from to a move where someone is thrusting your leg over his shoulder while sitting on you, AFTER HE HIT YOU WITH A FREAKING CHAIR!? Yeah man, because in 1984 the Camel Clutch was pretty much the most feared move in the WWF after Bob Backlund couldn't get out of it and needed Skaaland to throw in the towel for him. Hogan wanted the title so much that he reached down to his "fighting spirit" and broke out. If Benoit had the fighting spirit of a champion he would've done the same. Of course it's all kayfabed anyway, but still. Brock's submission is a new move though. Benoit wasn't expecting it. The heroic surviving of it is being saved for their next meeting plus you forgot that he got hit with a chair to set the Brock lock up in the first place.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. I don't know...it worked for Austin pretty well. No, Austin went through fucking hell and was in the Sharpshooter for a while before he passed out due to bleeding like a MAN. Benoit took a chairshot and was in the move for like two seconds before he gave a little yelp and went limp like Anakin's mom in Episode II. Austin went down like a champ, Benoit went down like a bitch.
Guest Anglesault Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. EXACTLY If you keep saying "Well, golly gee, it's not the best they can do, but dangit, it could be worse!" Those of us that care about quality are fucked. But if more people say "Fuck this" when the WWE offers something of lesser quality than they can, and refuse to spend money, maybe we can get a point across.
iliketurtles Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. The smart marks are gunna buy Mania either way. The marks/casual fans would want to see something like Brock/Goldberg instead of Brock/Benoit. Just wondering, what indication are you going by with that statement? Just an assumption? Well, considering the moment Brock debuted people chanted Goldberg at him. Now that both of their characters are more developed, I think that many casual fans would want to see this match. And TSM is going to buy Mania 20 or at least watch it. Do you really think such hardcore fans would not by the show?
Guest wildpegasus Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I disagree. If anything Benoit's angry because he knows he CAN beat Lesnar, but he hasn't been able to prove it yet. Brock won that match via TKO in a submission. He beat Benoit, Benoit did not beat him. Yes, he did. The ref just didn't see it. Doesn't matter Rico. A REAL champion does it when it matters. Benoit CHOKED. What do u mean it doesn't matter? So ur telling me Benoit is not a real champ? Hmmm. He didn't tap, he passed out because you do that when you are being put in a deadly hold. Would that be good enough to be considered a real champ? Or would he have to be beyond human strength and not pass out? And how is Brock the real champ, he tapped out. Benoit didn't, and this is what makes this feud good. Brock knows that he never made Benoit tap and he never wants to face him again because he knows its useless to fight someone who you(Brock) can't beat(Benoit). If Benoit wins the Rumble, he's forced into fighting Brock, and theres nothing he can do about it. How is this not better than the supposedly HHH/Benoit feud you brought out? No, a REAL champ doesn't pass out like a pussy in a deadly submission hold. He does what Hulk Hogan did to the Camel Clutch against the Iron Shiek... he BREAKS OUT OF THAT SHIT LIKE A FUCKING MAN AND UNLEASHES A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS ASSKICKING. I don't know...it worked for Austin pretty well. No, Austin went through fucking hell and was in the Sharpshooter for a while before he passed out due to bleeding like a MAN. Benoit took a chairshot and was in the move for like two seconds before he gave a little yelp and went limp like Anakin's mom in Episode II. Austin went down like a champ, Benoit went down like a bitch. He was in it for more than two seconds. You're twisting history around. ALso, I believe Benoit was in the hold for a lot longer time as it was reported from someone that was there that he was in it for about 2 or even 3 min.
godthedog Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 okay, about the 'raw' title: smark shit aside, it will never be as prestigious as the wwe title, even to the marks. it is not the flagship company title. look at the difference: wwe title. raw title. triple h could beat everyone on the smackdown roster clean, but that big gold belt will never be the top company belt.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I was talking about Benoit just taking out whoever was in his way. Being an impartial machine of destruction. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, how does attacking the bigget face in the history of the business help get someone over as a face? He wasn't going to attack him. Austin would simply get in the way and he'd get him out of the way during some scuffle. And it wouldn't be "I hit Austin! LOVE ME!" It would be an inadvertant thing that showed that Benoit didn't care about what he had to do to win the title.
KTID Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 12 - Lost (because of punishment) You're just making stuff up to bitch about HHH now. The man offered to lose for the *good of the company* so stop with the HHHate already.
RavishingRickRudo Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 Benoit kicked out of an F-5, the move that put down Hogan and Rock - two of these "heros" that Benoit supposedly isn't. Then took a chair shot. THEN got put in a submission. Pussy?
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I'd just like to add that Austin and Rock hit faces before, and still soemhow managed to stay over. And if Benoit still needs to "get over as a face" as AS put it then he shouldn't be ME'ing WM at all. Give that to someone who's over, like Cena.
CanadianChick Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. The smart marks are gunna buy Mania either way. The marks/casual fans would want to see something like Brock/Goldberg instead of Brock/Benoit. Just wondering, what indication are you going by with that statement? Just an assumption? Well, considering the moment Brock debuted people chanted Goldberg at him. Now that both of their characters are more developed, I think that many casual fans would want to see this match. And TSM is going to buy Mania 20 or at least watch it. Do you really think such hardcore fans would not by the show? I don't think that's a very good indication. The crowd chanted that as a joke. He was just seen as a WWE version of Goldberg.
iliketurtles Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 okay, about the 'raw' title: smark shit aside, it will never be as prestigious as the wwe title, even to the marks. it is not the flagship company title. look at the difference: wwe title. raw title. triple h could beat everyone on the smackdown roster clean, but that big gold belt will never be the top company belt. In my opinion, the Heavyweight/WWE title won't be credible until it's Undisputed again to have ONE champion.
Lil' Bitch Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 No, Austin went through fucking hell and was in the Sharpshooter for a while before he passed out due to bleeding like a MAN. Benoit took a chairshot and was in the move for like two seconds before he gave a little yelp and went limp like Anakin's mom in Episode II. Austin went down like a champ, Benoit went down like a bitch. Sure Austin was bleeding, but Bret wasn't 295 lbs.
Guest Anglesault Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I was talking about Benoit just taking out whoever was in his way. Being an impartial machine of destruction. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, how does attacking the bigget face in the history of the business help get someone over as a face? He wasn't going to attack him. Austin would simply get in the way and he'd get him out of the way during some scuffle. And it wouldn't be "I hit Austin! LOVE ME!" It would be an inadvertant thing that showed that Benoit didn't care about what he had to do to win the title. But people tend to boo when someone strikes Austin.
The Metal Maniac Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I'm surprised that no one caught on to this... The winner will then go to Mania and fight Triple H for the Raw belt in a cross brand matchup This makes NO SENSE. At all. None. Let's look at this, kayfabe-wise: 1. It's a cross-brand match. Nowhere does it say that the winner will switch brands. So, if, say, Benoit wins the RAW title, does he go back to SD with it? 2. Why would either GM want to allow the winner of the RR to fight the OTHER brands champion? Considering that they're in competition with each other, why would either GM, when someone from their side wins, forfeit having a SD or RAW-only main event match on WM 20? Dammit, there were other things that bugged me about it, but I forgot them. I still think this is a flat-out silly idea.
iliketurtles Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 . I don't get how wrestling HHH for the World Title at MSG on PPV at Wrestlemania is "a lot worse." Sure, it's not as cool as it would be to see Benoit vs. Lesnar but I would still call that pretty fucking good. . And there it is right there. You can have "cool" but you're fine with "not as cool" Well, what's the WWE's motivation to ever give you "cool?" They don't have one. They just care about getting the $$$. The smart marks are gunna buy Mania either way. The marks/casual fans would want to see something like Brock/Goldberg instead of Brock/Benoit. Just wondering, what indication are you going by with that statement? Just an assumption? Well, considering the moment Brock debuted people chanted Goldberg at him. Now that both of their characters are more developed, I think that many casual fans would want to see this match. And TSM is going to buy Mania 20 or at least watch it. Do you really think such hardcore fans would not by the show? I don't think that's a very good indication. The crowd chanted that as a joke. He was just seen as a WWE version of Goldberg. So wouldn't logic dictate they would want to see WWE's version of Goldberg vs. the Real Deal? Assumption? Yes. But with some logic? I think.
godthedog Posted January 3, 2004 Report Posted January 3, 2004 I'd just like to add that Austin and Rock hit faces before, and still soemhow managed to stay over. And if Benoit still needs to "get over as a face" as AS put it then he shouldn't be ME'ing WM at all. Give that to someone who's over, like Cena. rocky in 2001 was pretty over as a face, and he still got booed when he attacked austin.
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