Huge Update On Chris Benoit's WWE Future

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Andrew...Yeah, I realize that...hence my comment on how fustrating it is to look for any sort of consistency in the fed.

 

The RAW title is the combination of the Euro title, the Hardcore title, the US title, the IC title and the WCW title.

 

Honest question now: Should that belt even be considered to be the WCW title?

 

The actual WCW title was changed in name to the World Title, but then again, that only lasted for about a month before it was unified.

 

So Jericho won it and the WWF title, became the Undisputed Champion, and things stayed that way until Brock said he'd never show up on RAW again. Thanks to this, Bischof declared HHH the new Wold Champion, and gave him a belt that's very similar (but not the exact same) to the WCW title.

 

So does that really count as the WCW title, kayfabe-wise? Brock Lesnar never lost the WCW belt - well, he did, but they never seperated. The only person who said they were seperated was someone who has no real jurisdiction (I think I butchered that) over the actual champion. I mean, I can understand him being able to pull out the IC belt, because he put it there in the first place, and one can assume that HHH would've given the belt back freely, as he had no need/desire for it.

 

But how on earth could he be able to pull out the WCW title from the Undisputed Championship?

 

Again, I understand that this company doesn't even try to make sense, but really now; The belt HHH has should be considered worth only slightly more then the WCW belt replicas anyone can buy, and only because it says "WWE" on it, which would make it much rarer then any WCW World Title belt.

[AndrewTS 0]

Well, its clear we're not going to come to a resolution on the validity on the World Title. Those who hold it in the same regard will see the title win all the more important.

 

I'm so happy JR will think it's important.

 

I'd say Benoit being classified with some of the industries biggest stars such as HHH, HBK and Goldberg a good thing.

 

As opposed to the WWE title...?

 

Initially it was percieved as a fake title. Years from now if the brand extension is still intact, nobody is going to refer to it as a 'fake' title

 

Years from now it will be the play toy of little 6-year-old Kennedy Levesque/Helmsley as she becomes the youngest holder of a WWE title ever.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

It stopped being the WCW title the day WWE bought the company and took over the booking and ownership of the title.

 

The World title was to the WCW title as the International title was to the NWA title.

 

The NWA pulled their lineage out...and WCW's lineage dies when WCW did.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[cbacon 0]

Andrew...Yeah, I realize that...hence my comment on how fustrating it is to look for any sort of consistency in the fed.

 

The RAW title is the combination of the Euro title, the Hardcore title, the US title, the IC title and the WCW title.

 

Honest question now: Should that belt even be considered to be the WCW title?

 

The actual WCW title was changed in name to the World Title, but then again, that only lasted for about a month before it was unified.

 

So Jericho won it and the WWF title, became the Undisputed Champion, and things stayed that way until Brock said he'd never show up on RAW again. Thanks to this, Bischof declared HHH the new Wold Champion, and gave him a belt that's very similar (but not the exact same) to the WCW title.

 

So does that really count as the WCW title, kayfabe-wise? Brock Lesnar never lost the WCW belt - well, he did, but they never seperated. The only person who said they were seperated was someone who has no real jurisdiction (I think I butchered that) over the actual champion. I mean, I can understand him being able to pull out the IC belt, because he put it there in the first place, and one can assume that HHH would've given the belt back freely, as he had no need/desire for it.

 

But how on earth could he be able to pull out the WCW title from the Undisputed Championship?

 

Again, I understand that this company doesn't even try to make sense, but really now; The belt HHH has should be considered worth only slightly more then the WCW belt replicas anyone can buy, and only because it says "WWE" on it, which would make it much rarer then any WCW World Title belt.

My take on the World Title from another thread:

 

 

I think we need to get over the fact that the World Heavyweight title on RAW is NOT the WCW world title despite looking identical. The new World Heavyweight title was created in September 2002 and holds a lineage of HHH-HBK-HHH-Goldberg-HHH. If you look at the RoyalRumble.com and check out Goldberg's profile you'll see him as having seperate World Title and WCW Title reigns rather then 2 World title reigns.

 

With that said, in kayfabe land, Benoit winning the World Title on RAW would hold the same prestige as the WWE title. However, it's a shame he wouldn't be able to hold the same WWE Title previously held by guys like Bret, Hogan and Flair. But i see the World Title as an equal accomplishment.

 

To the untrained eye, it may seem like the WCW title, but to the eye with power its......well its a new title.

[AndrewTS 0]

It stopped being the WCW title the day WWE bought the company and took over the booking and ownership of the title.

 

The World title was to the WCW title as the International title was to the NWA title.

 

The NWA pulled their lineage out...and WCW's lineage dies when WCW did.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

I agree. Kurt Angle was never really WCW Champion, neither was Rock, and Jericho became WWF Champion and got a shiny extra belt in the process. That's an extra belt, not a second REAL title.

[Karc 0]

4. Benoit has been world champion before

 

just saying

True, but WWE makes a point to never mention that he was the WCW champion right before he went to the WWE. In all the time he's been there, they've never mentioned that he's had the title once. Which leads me to think that they want to push him like they did Jericho, as the best wrestler to not win the big one.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Just because the WWE doesn't mention something doesn't mean it never happened.

 

Hey, I think I just summed up the basis of their companys philosophy.

[2GOLD 0]

Maybe Benoit should just open a Cracker Jack box and declare whatever toy inside is the world title since that will mean as much as that belt on RAW.

[AndrewTS 0]

Maybe Benoit should just open a Cracker Jack box and declare whatever toy inside is the world title since that will mean as much as that belt on RAW.

Silly--a toy inside the box wouldn't fit around his waist.

 

However, THE BOX ITSELF could be a fold-out belt. Just add glue and velcro. He can put on a Burger King kids' meal crown and be the Undisputed Cracker Jack World Champion and Happy King.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

With that said, in kayfabe land, Benoit winning the World Title on RAW would hold the same prestige as the WWE title.

 

Uh...no it wouldn't.

 

Winning a belt with 50+ years of history that's been held by the greatest in the business = prestige.

 

Winning a belt with 1+ years of history that's been held by 3 people, all of whom were past their primes at the time, and was created simply because they needed a champion = nothing.

 

Honestly, how can you admit that the belt was just given to HHH for no real reason, and yet still think it holds the same prestige as the ACTUAL belt?

[Highland 0]

When is Benoit expect to go to Raw? He can still face Brock at wm and beat him for the real world title and then after dropping it go to Raw.

 

Or they could decide to put an end to the brand split (it costs a shitload of money) and have Benoit face whoever the Raw champion is in a title unification bout.

 

 

 

 

Shoot me now.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

To be fair...the WWE title was handed to Buddy Rogers too...but it's had the benefit of DECADES of use.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Yeah, but at least they lied and SAID that he won it from somebody.

 

It's not like they did it on live TV.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

"WCW brand or not, its still the same title with its past lineage still recognized as shown in the Unforgiven intro back in 2002." - WWE Spokesman

 

They wanted to have one World Champion so they unified the WCW World and WWE Championship titles into the Undisputed Championship. Both belts were carried by Chris Jericho after he won that tournament at Vengeance. After HHH won it from him, he had the two titles formed into one brand new designed belt. They decided to do the split and the title changed hands from HHH to Hulk Hogan to The Undertaker to The Rock to Brock Lesnar. Kayfabe-wise, Stephanie signing Brock exclusively to Smackdown for a large sum of money and the former WCW World title was resurrected by Bischoff on RAW and he gave it to HHH. So basically, they split the belts apart, but they kept the UDC design for the WWE Championship. That's how I look at it.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Also true. Plus they used a pretty legit basis for the crowning of Rogers, as he lost a one fall match for the title...when all title matches were supposed to be 2/3 falls.

 

Of course...WWE then went on to never use 2/3 falls for title matches...but whatever.

 

 

 

Thinking back to the HHH title "win"...what made it more ridiculous was that he wrestled a match for the title THAT NIGHT. (I think it was Flair...correct me if I'm wrong).

 

No reason that couldn't have been to crown the champion.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

"WCW brand or not, its still the same title with its past lineage still recognized as shown in the Unforgiven intro back in 2002." - WWE Spokesman

 

They wanted to have one World Champion so they unified the WCW World and WWE Championship titles into the Undisputed Championship. Both belts were carried by Chris Jericho after he won that tournament at Vengeance. After HHH won it from him, he had the two titles formed into one brand new designed belt. They decided to do the split and the title changed hands from HHH to Hulk Hogan to The Undertaker to The Rock to Brock Lesnar. Kayfabe-wise, Stephanie signing Brock exclusively to Smackdown for a large sum of money and the former WCW World title was resurrected by Bischoff on RAW and he gave it to HHH. So basically, they split the belts apart, but they kept the UDC design for the WWE Championship. That's how I look at it.

Again...even if so...

 

1. Benoit already won that title

 

2. A title that needs all these footnotes is in no way better than one that doesn't.

 

According to the WWE, the WCW title still has the NWA lineage in it...

[JHawk 0]

To be fair...the WWE title was handed to Buddy Rogers too...but it's had the benefit of DECADES of use.

And in fairness to that, the kayfabe reason was that he won a tournament, so they at least tried to make the fans feel it was legitimate rather than trying to force legitimacy for it.

 

I'd certainly buy that easier than "You're the top contender but the champ won't wrestle you". Which, by the way, is also how the AWA World Title was started...and look how that ended up.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

and the former WCW World title was resurrected by Bischoff on RAW and he gave it to HHH. So basically, they split the belts apart

 

Again, Bisch would not have the authority to do this. That'd be akin to Heyman saying, right now, that he's gonna bring the Hardcore title back to SD because HHH doesn't defend it. They don't have the authority to do that.

 

Thus, we must assume that it's a brand new belt, not connected with the WCW belt, even though the WWE says it is.

[Hektik 0]

4.  Benoit has been world champion before

 

just saying

True, but WWE makes a point to never mention that he was the WCW champion right before he went to the WWE. In all the time he's been there, they've never mentioned that he's had the title once. Which leads me to think that they want to push him like they did Jericho, as the best wrestler to not win the big one.

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

[Karc 0]

Just because the WWE doesn't mention something doesn't mean it never happened.

 

Hey, I think I just summed up the basis of their companys philosophy.

That's pretty much how they work. Which leads to this problem of the real definition of the "Raw Title." The way I have observed it, when Triple H has the belt, "it dates back to 1904." But when Goldberg or HBK has it, it's "Triple H wants his world title back, because it's his life." So which one do we choose?

 

Of course, I haven't really paid attention to Raw since the racist message of Booker's jobbing at WM 19.

[Karc 0]

4.  Benoit has been world champion before

 

just saying

True, but WWE makes a point to never mention that he was the WCW champion right before he went to the WWE. In all the time he's been there, they've never mentioned that he's had the title once. Which leads me to think that they want to push him like they did Jericho, as the best wrestler to not win the big one.

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

I remember that, then later that night, he became a Triple H lackey by attacking Foley. Figures.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

4.  Benoit has been world champion before

 

just saying

True, but WWE makes a point to never mention that he was the WCW champion right before he went to the WWE. In all the time he's been there, they've never mentioned that he's had the title once. Which leads me to think that they want to push him like they did Jericho, as the best wrestler to not win the big one.

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

What makes it funny now is that it's pretty damning to the title he's holding himself now...

 

IF you buy the company line that is.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

 

For some reason, I have no idea why, WWE loves to recognize Benoit's WCW title win. According to WCW, "it never happened" and even Benoit himself doesn't recognize his own world title win.

[AndrewTS 0]

Kayfabe-wise, Stephanie signing Brock exclusively to Smackdown for a large sum of money and the former WCW World title was resurrected by Bischoff on RAW and he gave it to HHH. So basically, they split the belts apart, but they kept the UDC design for the WWE Championship. That's how I look at it.

 

However, whenever the title was won by some one else, that person should be the Undisputed Champion still and have the right to move from show to show as he pleases. That's the way the title situation, worked out prior to the draft, was supposed to be for the men's and women's titles. I brought this question up when Show won the title from Brock. It was never mentioned on TV ever, naturally.

 

However, somehow the Women's Title became exclusive to Raw...for absolutely no reason and around the time that Bischoff said "no one cares about women's wrestling." Instead of doing something sensible, like trading the women wrestlers to SD for the fluffer whores (which would make sense for Bischoff to do and would have fit in with Raw's then-M.O. of "SE over wrestling"), they...kept the women's title on Raw. Huh?

 

The fact that the title Brock carries now should be the Undisputed Champion, and any other holder of the title should be able to go to both shows as he pleases of course was never brought up again, although something like that would be convenient for this angle.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

The WWE probably likes to say it because it makes Benoit look better.

 

WCW always denied it, because technically, Benoit never should have won that match, as Sid's foot was under the rope.

[JHawk 0]

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

 

For some reason, I have no idea why, WWE loves to recognize Benoit's WCW title win. According to WCW, "it never happened" and even Benoit himself doesn't recognize his own world title win.

And that reason?

 

"If we claim Benoit's already been a World Champion, then we never have to allow him to win our title."

[AndrewTS 0]

The WWE probably likes to say it because it makes Benoit look better.

 

WCW always denied it, because technically, Benoit never should have won that match, as Sid's foot was under the rope.

By that line of thinking, every heel who ever cheated to win a title's reigns would be null and void.

[Karc 0]

To be fair they did mention his title win when he first went to the WWE. It was actualy HHH who said it. He went to Benoit and said "The last time I saw you on TV you had a Big shiny gold belt with you." He then holds up the WWE title and says "But this is the WWE and this is the true measuring stick."

 

For some reason, I have no idea why, WWE loves to recognize Benoit's WCW title win. According to WCW, "it never happened" and even Benoit himself doesn't recognize his own world title win.

And that reason?

 

"If we claim Benoit's already been a World Champion, then we never have to allow him to win our title."

This means Benoit is really screwed. I mean, if I have this right, the WWE only had to mention he was a former World Champion once, in a rather subtle manner, and that justifies never letting him win the WWE title, ever?

 

I guess if Benoit gained 200 pounds, Vince would have to give it to him then. I mean, it worked for Big Show.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

WCW always denied it, because technically, Benoit never should have won that match, as Sid's foot was under the rope.

 

Unfortunately, this should be applied to Kurt Angle's title win at Unforgiven then.

[AndrewTS 0]

I guess if Benoit gained 200 pounds, Vince would have to give it to him then. I mean, it worked for Big Show.

No. He needs to be taller.