Guest OSIcon Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 Why they're building it on Chavo I'm not sure. Take a look at his run as WCW cruiserweight champion from December 2000 to March 2001. Although the booking of the division really helped, the cruiserweight division was really becoming great again during his time as champion. He got over really well as a heel champion. His work with Shane Helms helped Helms move from a not-so-over member of 3 Count to a really over cruiserweight challenger. He had three good to really good title matches on pay per view in 2001 (vs. Helms at Sin, vs. Rey at Superbrawl, and vs. Helms at Greed). His matches were getting just as much if not more heat than any other match on the shows towards the end. And this all came after the division was basically buried for a year before this. Chavo is a perfectly capable wrestler to help build the division around. If the division gets at least some of the attention that WCW gave the division in their last 3 months, then Chavo will easily be able to help get the division over.
King Cucaracha Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Chavo. But I meant more 'why not Noble' or 'why not Tajiri' who have been on top already recently. Hell, also 'why not Malenko when he came in'. It just seems weird he starts this off with Chavo right now when Chavo has just come off the feud with Eddie, which for all the build has seemingly ended in less than a month than the payoff came about.
RavishingRickRudo Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 This is hilarious. People comparing what the WWE wants with NJPW Jr. division, or WCW in 2001. They want them to wrestle like heavweights!!! THIS IS BAD!
The Tino Standard Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 If I believed the WWE could get their wrestlers to incorporate some actual psychology into their matches, I'd be all for it. They keep spewing rhetoric about making each move "mean more," but really, they're not doing anything with that besides making everybody use chinlocks, armbars, bearhugs and sleepers for 90 percent of the match. Finding good psychology in a WWE match these days is as difficult as it gets. It would be nice if all the wearing down of a body part actually led to something in the finish... The angle with Jericho's injured knee on Monday was a good example... What drives me nuts is a situation like that tag match a few weeks ago where the heels spent the whole match wearing down RVD's arm/shoulder. Why? What is the point? It didn't build to the heels' finisher and it didn't take away anything from RVD's offense. Just senseless wastes of time. I can get on board with mat work, even in the cruiserweights, but if somebody doesn't give the talent roster a lesson in psychology in a real hurry, then this is going to get to be brutal to watch.
Guest OSIcon Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 I am looking at it at face value. All the report said was that Chavo's "more grounded style brings a different element to the cruiserweight division" and that they hope he can elevate the division along with Rey. Nothing in there says "the WWE is happy with Chavo because he wrestles like a small heavyweight and that is what they want the division to be like." The division could turn out that way...I don't know. Nobody does. From this report though, it just says they like what Chavo's more grounded style brings to the division. From my point of view, I like it also. The only thing that I really disagree with his the WWE's perception that Chavo's style is unique for cruiserweights. All good lightier weight divisions need good bases. Benoit and Eddy were largely bases when theyre gulary competed as juniors. The WWE seems to be under the impression that 99 percent of all cruiserweights just fly around all the time, which isn't exactly true. Chavo provides a good base for the flyers which is only a good thing I would think. Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Chavo. But I meant more 'why not Noble' or 'why not Tajiri' who have been on top already recently. Hell, also 'why not Malenko when he came in'. It just seems weird he starts this off with Chavo right now when Chavo has just come off the feud with Eddie, which for all the build has seemingly ended in less than a month than the payoff came about. I agree that Knoble could do just as good of a job as Chavo in the same role. However, if they are going to do it with Chavo, I have no problem with that because at least they *may* do it with somebody.
RavishingRickRudo Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 The WWE clearly wants everyone wrestling the same style. All of the matches are interchangable and there is little to NO variety. By "grounding" the cruiserweight division you take away a key part of their appeal. Vince has never been a cruiserweight guy, the cruiserweight division has never been treated well, and if you can't see the writing on the wall then you're simply not looking.
NoCalMike Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 Can we just all agree and come to the realization that Vince has no interest in seeing any wrestling style other then WWE-style in his federation? We've seen most of the cruisers before their time in WWE and see what they are capable of, and Vince refuses to tap that pot of gold, even if it meant bringing more excitement to the show.
Guest Coffey Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 I know it was touched on earlier in this thread, but if Jamie "BAH GAWD" Noble isn't "ground-based," then what the fuck is he? He's a helluva lot more ground-based than Chavo Guerrero Jr.
Michrome Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 I wouldn't say "a hell of a lot more." Clearly you haven't seen all of Chavo's stuff. I'll take Chavo on the mat over Knoble 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
Tim Cooke Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 "I wouldn't say "a hell of a lot more." Clearly you haven't seen all of Chavo's stuff. I'll take Chavo on the mat over Knoble 7 days a week and twice on Sunday." I think Chavo is an excellent rudo for the flying lightweights but Noble is just as solid if not better on the mat than Chavo. From the little bit he has been able to do (a little bit from WCW in 2001 and the Super 8 2002 stuff), Noble has as much mat ability as Chavo. I would be willing to bet that if given the environment to shine in, Noble could be better than Bryan Danielson (the best worker in the world right now) on the mat. Tim
Damaramu Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 Everyone think back to King of the Ring 2002......remember the Helms/Noble match........that's what they want to have.
Michrome Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 I've never really bought into Knoble being as good as he's pimped to be. For being someone with mat skills that so many people pimp, he's really yet to have an awesome, blowaway TV match. Matt Hardy, Chavo, Eddy, and Tajiri all had better TV matches with Rey.....I'm still yet to be shown by Knoble that he's at that level too.
Guest BDC Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 But how much ringtime has Noble had compared to everyone else with Rey?
Guest Brian Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 Checl out his pre-WWE, HWA stuff. This is Knoble as all his excellence. This is the next gen, mini-Benoit, Dynamite-disciple.
Guest deadbeater Posted February 5, 2004 Report Posted February 5, 2004 This is weird. They want more armbars and armlocks done, but the only person in the last year to bust out an arm submission after tearing an arm off is Molly, in her match with Ivory. The submission moves have to mean more than a transition to make the matwork work.
Guest MikeSC Posted February 6, 2004 Report Posted February 6, 2004 Am I the only one that when they hear about WWE wanting to slow things down it really means WWE doesn't want the highflyers to overshadow the hosses or HHH. I mean think about it who ends up getting injured the most? Roided hosses like Batiasa and HHH. Or people that uses hundreds of German suplexes in matches like Angle. With RVDs highflyer style he hasn't been injured at all since he came to the WWE because he is flexable which is something WWE should work on more then have the "look". The best cruiser matches do that slow build thing. Rey v Dean had a good slow build. Rey v Eddy had slow builds and were, arguably, the best cruiser matches in American history. Even the tragically underrated Dean v Scotty 2 Hotty match at Backlash 2K had a slow build-up and ended with niftier spots. You can't start off throwing high spots aplenty as the crowd will basically sit on their hands for anything the rest of th match. -=Mike
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