Is Angle being mistreated?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

In 2003, Kurt Angle's PPV record was 6-2. That's better than HHH's (5-4). Despite being out most of the year, he's always given a main event spot when he comes back. He's booked consistantly as one of the best wrestlers on the program, he's been given TWO WWE Title reigns, added up to about four months. He's a bonafide Main Eventer people, and he's never even been a real draw.

 

How in the WORLD could ANYONE complain about that treatment? There are people on the roster who would KILL for it.

 

Kurt Angle is the single most protected man the WWE has, he has been since his debut, when he was allowed to go over the entire WWE Midcard (with little to no heat until Feb. 2000 I might add), just like he always has been. He's been shuttled up and down a bit, but he's ALWAYS been in a postion where, if need be, he could wrestle in the ME of any PPV.

 

Tell me, what has the WWE done that was so wrong with Kurt Angle, except tunr him into a patriotic face a couple times?

[Guest Anglesault]

In 2003, Kurt Angle's PPV record was 6-2. That's better than HHH's (5-4). Despite being out most of the year, he's always given a main event spot when he comes back.

Except for those four month midcard tours.

 

Not lately, but he's also missed a lot of time last year.

 

and he's never even been a real draw.

 

He's also never had a PPV sold on him.

 

He's been shuttled up and down a bit, but he's ALWAYS been in a postion where, if need be, he could wrestle in the ME of any PPV.

 

And the whole point was that if you're trying to create a main eventer, you don't randomly shuttle him down the card for several months in between ME runs. It completely kills any momentum he had going and forces them to start all over again when they want him back at the top.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

In 2003, Kurt Angle's PPV record was 6-2. That's better than HHH's (5-4). Despite being out most of the year, he's always given a main event spot when he comes back.

Except for those four month midcard tours.

 

Not lately, but he's also missed a lot of time last year.

 

and he's never even been a real draw.

 

He's also never had a PPV sold on him.

 

He's been shuttled up and down a bit, but he's ALWAYS been in a postion where, if need be, he could wrestle in the ME of any PPV.

 

And the whole point was that if you're trying to create a main eventer, you don't randomly shuttle him down the card for several months in between ME runs. It completely kills any momentum he had going and forces them to start all over again when they want him back at the top.

Actually Armageddon 2000 was pretty much sold on the "How the hell can Kurt get out of this shit" factor. And Unforgiven 2000's most hyped match... HHH/Kurt.

 

And with the WWE's fairly large ME scene of 2000 (The Rock, Austin, HHH, UT, Kane, Rikishi, Angle, Benoit, and Foley all ME'd PPVs that year) it's difficult to keep one guy on top that whole time. Plus, I think his depush after the title win was totally reconciled when McMahon decided that Kurt Angle should be the standard bearer for the WWF in the InVasion. No matter what you think of the angle itself... that's a hell of an honor.

[Guest Anglesault]

In 2003, Kurt Angle's PPV record was 6-2. That's better than HHH's (5-4). Despite being out most of the year, he's always given a main event spot when he comes back.

Except for those four month midcard tours.

 

Not lately, but he's also missed a lot of time last year.

 

and he's never even been a real draw.

 

He's also never had a PPV sold on him.

 

He's been shuttled up and down a bit, but he's ALWAYS been in a postion where, if need be, he could wrestle in the ME of any PPV.

 

And the whole point was that if you're trying to create a main eventer, you don't randomly shuttle him down the card for several months in between ME runs. It completely kills any momentum he had going and forces them to start all over again when they want him back at the top.

Actually Armageddon 2000 was pretty much sold on the "How the hell can Kurt get out of this shit" factor.

It was sold on a Hell in a Cell match, in which Kurt participated. The cage was the selling point.

 

And Unforgiven 2000's most hyped match... HHH/Kurt.

 

That show bombed?

 

And with the WWE's fairly large ME scene of 2000 (The Rock, Austin, HHH, UT, Kane, Rikishi, Angle, Benoit, and Foley all ME'd PPVs that year) it's difficult to keep one guy on top that whole time

 

Who said anything about 2000?

 

He spent four months of 2001 in the midcard so he could deal with Benoit and the immovable object that is SHANE MCMAHON.

 

He spent February through June and August through November of 2002 in the midcard feuds (many over absolutely nothing, but that's a different story) that accomplished NOTHING.

 

And in 2003, he was given the most horribly brutal feud with Brock. It was in the ME though, so it's both more and less frustrating. Less because he stayed up top for his whole run, more because they tried to pass THAT off as a ME feud.

 

Plus, I think his depush after the title win was totally reconciled when McMahon decided that Kurt Angle should be the standard bearer for the WWF in the InVasion. No matter what you think of the angle itself... that's a hell of an honor.

 

That in no way justifies dropping him down to the midcard immediately following a Honky Tonk title run. It made his run look worthless (it was) and forced them to build from the ground up.

[Guest Choken One]

Ummm...Vengence was Hyped as Angle's return (I'm talking the Hype Ads, not the actual on screen stuff) and that show BOMBED.

 

Angle was Hyped for Unforgiven 2001 and that show tanked...

 

 

Angle isn't a draw but either is Benoit and either is anyone else with the possible exception of Foley...

[Guest Anglesault]

Ummm...Vengence was Hyped as Angle's return (I'm talking the Hype Ads, not the actual on screen stuff) and that show BOMBED.

Is that your Final Answer?

 

So Wrong. I mean, SO damn wrong.

 

Besides Vince completely overshadowing Angle's return on screen with himself and the OLM, he also had his match dominate the PPV commericals leading up to the actual show.

 

Angle was Hyped for Unforgiven 2001 and that show tanked...

 

I actually never saw the numbers for that show. I'm sure it tanked, I was starting to tire of the Stone Cold Kurt Austin.

[Highland 0]

Angle is one of the most pushed workers they have on the roster, he's almost always involved in the upper midcard/main event. In the dictionary, next to the word Godpush, is Kurt Angle's picture.

[Guest Anglesault]

Angle is one of the most pushed workers they have on the roster, he's almost always involved in the upper midcard/main event.

Except 2002, where he was there for a grand total of two months.

[Guest Choken One]

which I think was a good thing...

 

I think all workers, esp main eventers should move down to the Mid-Card...

 

Undertaker did it for like 5 years (1993-1995) (2001-2003)

Rock did it in 1999 with the rock n sock stuff

HHH moved down to the I.C Ranks for a couple months after an incredible world title run

Flair moved to the mid-card once or twice

 

Sure, what Angle did DURING his non-main event run of 2002 might have been unpleasant but the actual "downshifting" wasn't so bad...

[AndrewTS 0]

Topic question: No.

 

He's just momumentally stupid to risk his life and ability to walk constantly for the shithole that WWE is becoming.

[Guest Anglesault]

which I think was a good thing...

 

I think all workers, esp main eventers should move down to the Mid-Card...

I don't. It totally ruins any momentum they had going in their main event run.

 

Rock did it in 1999 with the rock n sock stuff

 

Rock was totally out of the title picture for about one month (December) during that Rock and Sock run.

 

HHH moved down to the I.C Ranks for a couple months after an incredible world title run

 

No, he was a ME holding the IC belt. He only fought top contenders after the Jeff hardy fiasco.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Except 2002, where he was there for a grand total of two months.

 

There are people who would kill to be a main eventer in the fed for a month, let alone two.

 

It seems that you're just complaining because he isn't on top *all the time*. No one is, really, and considering he's only got about 4 years under his belt, he should be damned happy with the time he's had.

[Guest Choken One]

The bottom line is this...Once he retires...NO ONE LETS HIM TOUCH THE BOOK.

 

 

Apprently, he scripted the Cena shit.

 

Angle has a fucked up idea of what's funny...

[Guest Anglesault]

It seems that you're just complaining because he isn't on top *all the time*.

 

I'm more upset that they either cut his legs out from under him just when he's getting momentum, or stick him in pointless, stupid, midcard feuds *over nothing* seemingly just to keep him out of the ME.

 

Really, what was being accomplished by the Kane, Edge, rey and benoit feuds?

 

Kane was just a great big waste of time, Edge went on for over two months of pure shit and never elevated Edge, Rey helped no one and Benoit and Kurt played bumbling idiots tagging while feuding over some issue that they never even bothered to explain.

 

Was any of that necessary?

[Guest Choken One]

Really, what was being accomplished by the Kane, Edge, rey and benoit feuds?

Good Matches?

[Guest Anglesault]

 

Really, what was being accomplished by the Kane, Edge, rey and benoit feuds?

Good Matches?

Yeah, that Kane feud lit the world on fire.

 

I mean what purpose were they serving? Feuds should be helping SOMEONE. Feuds like Angle/Benoit seemed to be designed specifically to damage both guys.

 

Let's look at the that one.

 

Two men feuding because uhm, well, because, well, because the WWE said so.

 

They think they're the best in the company, but in reality, they're idiot bumbling fools who can barely get their act together, and in some cases (SurSer) they simply can't get their act together.

 

But someone was benefitted by this, right? I mean I didn't sit through a HALLOWEEN FIGHT for it all to just suddenly die off and then begin the next month over a totally new issue, did I?

 

Oh, wait.

[Guest Anglesault]

Another thing. I'm at a loss for why they didn't just run Austin/Angle and Hall/Kane for Mania XVIII (I can understand not wanting to do Taker/Kane Angle/Flair) It gives you a good Austin/Angle blow off, and it gives the nWo a win.

Edited February 7, 2004 by Anglesault

[Guest Choken One]

Kane, I guess wasn't as High profile as Austin I guess...

 

and let's fucking face it, Austin/Angle ran it's fucking course.

[Guest Anglesault]

Kane, I guess wasn't as High profile as Austin I guess...

 

And yet they started it the week after Mania anyway.

 

and let's fucking face it, Austin/Angle ran it's fucking course.

 

It never had a blow off, and it would have been a nice way to reward the two men (instead of punishing them for whatever reason) who carried your company in 2001 and have a good match.

[JoeDirt 0]

 

Really, what was being accomplished by the Kane, Edge, rey and benoit feuds?

Good Matches?

Yeah, that Kane feud lit the world on fire.

 

I mean what purpose were they serving? Feuds should be helping SOMEONE. Feuds like Angle/Benoit seemed to be designed specifically to damage both guys.

 

Let's look at the that one.

 

Two men feuding because uhm, well, because, well, because the WWE said so.

 

They think they're the best in the company, but in reality, they're idiot bumbling fools who can barely get their act together, and in some cases (SurSer) they simply can't get their act together.

 

But someone was benefitted by this, right? I mean I didn't sit through a HALLOWEEN FIGHT for it all to just suddenly die off and then begin the next month over a totally new issue, did I?

 

Oh, wait.

It's a problem with the WWE's feuds these days. Things are forgotten 2 months later...it's just moving program to program instead of developing realistically...a lot of times you'll get "filler" stuff, like the Angle/Kane match at WM 18 obviously was. And what was accomplished by Angle/Cena? They feuded for one month over nothing, had their match, and that was it. It was just there because they needed to figure out something to do with both guys on the PPV.

 

I mean come on, this is the WWE, where feuds start over shampoo and spilled coffee. It's ridiculous.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Tell me, what has the WWE done that was so wrong with Kurt Angle, except tunr him into a patriotic face a couple times?

The only thing WWE has done wrong with Kurt Angle is that they never gave him that "BIG" win that woud have put him over the top.

 

He has never beaten Austin, The Rock, Undertaker or HHH clean in the middle of the ring.

 

Kurt Angle is the ultimate middle man. He is booked to be better than everyone else in the company but when it comes to going up against the elite of the WWE he always comes up short or he has had to cheat to win. which is why I think he hasn't become the superstar that I thought he would because to the casual fans Kurt is really really good but not good enough.

 

Brock on the other hand has a chance to become a superstar because by the end of WM he would have beaten Goldberg clean in the middle of the ring, to go along with his wins against The Rock and Undertaker. Wins that make fans go "Brock is the fuckin man"

[Guest ManKinnd]

Ever think Angle may not deserve to be constantly pushed as a main eventer? The guy is a great worker, granted, but I never remember him until he's in a match. Let's face it, he's not a wrestler than can be revered strictly for his matches. We look back and see a lot of great stuff, sure, but he's not a Benoit or Eddy or Flair that can have his entire character develop from his ringwork.

So he needs a character, and he's not good at playing one that'll help him. He's been booked as a serious heel, a goofy heel, a serious face and a goofy face. The only one he was good at was the goofy tweener with Austin in the Invasion, who was not a main event character.

He can't stand on his ringwork alone and he can't play a character that can help hold him. I love watching the guy wrestle, but he doesn't deserve to be booked like Superman.

Before I finish this post, I don't want to hear replies saying "Oh yea and Orton really deserves a push like that!" because it's a logical fallacy and I'm sick of reading things like that here.

[Austin3164life 0]

To be fair to both viewpoints, Angle is a treasure to the company, and these past two years, no one not named Rock, Austin, Hogan, or Foley has been a true "draw" for the company (which has been on a weird downward spiral). I still think that the WWE has never booked Angle completely right and to his strengths.

 

One question though: Choken, where did it say that Angle booked his own feud with Cena in October?

[Guest Deviant]

I find it hard to believe that there were too many smarks that enjoyed watching Angle have to make Hardcore freaking Holly look good, with Holly kicking out of some of Angle's big moves and getting to reverse the ankle lock (which should be saved for big matches and moments, which for the most part it has been).

 

Seeing Holly of all people roll through the ankle lock sickened me. I was actually yelling at my TV "Oh god COME ON! It's Hardcore Holly for fuck's sake!!!"

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Seeing Holly of all people roll through the ankle lock sickened me.

 

Well, considering that everyone else seems to do it all the fucking time, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

 

That move is used horribly anyway. If he applies it while standing, it just LOOKS like anyone should be able to roll out of it (partly because everyone DOES) and besides, the whole point of the move is (at least, it was, when Shamrock used it) that if you don't tap out right away, he can and will break your ankle. Doesn't work that way when people just sit in it going "ooooooh" for 5 minutes.