Story from Russia

[Guest MikeSC]

One of Vladimir V. Putin's challengers in next month's presidential election is missing, and the police and security services announced today that they had begun a search for him.

 

Ivan P. Rybkin, a former Parliament speaker and national security adviser under Boris N. Yeltsin, has not been seen or heard from since Thursday evening, raising fears among his family and campaign aides that something dire had happened to him.

 

"We are trying not to let such ideas come to mind," said Aleksandr V. Tukayev, a campaign official and the deputy chairman of Mr. Rybkin's party, Liberal Russia, "but it is hard not to think about it."

 

Mr. Rybkin's whereabouts have added a bizarre drama to a torpid presidential campaign that is universally expected to end with Mr. Putin's re-election on March 14.

 

Mr. Rybkin, 57, has been one of the most unabashed critics of Mr. Putin and his policies, but like Mr. Putin's five other challengers he has struggled to build political support and get his message heard, especially on state television. In polls, he has fared even worse than the others, receiving the support of fewer than 1 percent of voters.

 

Mr. Rybkin's Liberal Russia has been at the center of political intrigue and violence ever since it was created in 2002.

 

Its patron is Boris A. Berezovksy, a businessman and former Kremlin insider, who has become one of Mr. Putin's fiercest critics after moving to London in self-exile to escape fraud charges he says are politically motivated. Mr. Berezovsky first raised concerns about Mr. Rybkin's whereabouts in an interview on Friday.

 

Mr. Rybkin did not appear at a scheduled news conference on Friday, his aides said. Nor did he surface to make any statement on Saturday, as would be expected, when the country's election commission officially registered his candidacy in the election.

 

A spokesman for the Moscow police said that Mr. Rybkin's wife, Albina, submitted an official statement today about his disappearance. She told the police that her husband had not been seen since he arrived at their apartment sometime after 7 P.M. on Thursday and let his bodyguards go home. He was not there when his wife arrived after 11, she said.

 

Under Russian law, a person is not considered missing until three days have passed. Mr. Tukayev said that given Mr. Rybkin's prominence, the authorities should have begun a search immediately.

 

"In any civilized country, all the security services would be on their feet," he said.

 

In the last 18 months, two of the members of Mr. Rybkin's party in the Parliament, Sergei N. Yushenkov, and Vladimir I. Golovlyov, have been shot to death on the streets of Moscow in murky circumstances.

 

Shortly before he was killed, Mr. Yushenkov split with Mr. Berezovksy and another party leader, Mikhail N. Kodanev, has since been charged with the murder. Party officials say he has been falsely accused.

 

While the election commission refused to let the party participate in last December's parliamentary elections, Mr. Rybkin's supporters collected enough signatures to qualify him for a spot on the presidential ballot.

 

On Saturday, however, the chairman of the election commission, Aleskandr A. Veshnyakov, said the commission had provided prosecutors with what he said was evidence that some of his qualifying petitions were fraudulent. If that is proven, prosecutors could still disqualify him as a candidate.

 

Two other presidential challengers — Sergei Y. Glazyev, a leader of the nationalist Motherland Party, and Irina M. Khakamada of the liberal party Union of Right Forces — were also cleared today to run. But they too now face investigations into the veracity of some of the signatures they collected, election officials told the Interfax news agency.

 

Kseniya Y. Ponomaryova, Mr. Rybkin's campaign chairman, said in an interview tonight that another party official had spoken with him by telephone at 8:40 p.m. on Thursday. By 10 P.M., he was not answering his mobile telephone. Albina Rybkin said today that when she arrived home on Friday night, she found that her husband had taken off a shirt and left dishes in the kitchen, but there were no signs of a struggle or violence. His cars were still in the garage.

 

She discounted the possibility he was aboard the subway train struck by a bomb on Friday morning, killing at least 39, since he does not routinely use the subway. She also discounted the possibility that he had left on his own. "It is absolutely not like him," she said.

 

Mr. Rybkin, an agriculture specialist and former Communist Party member, has been a prominent political figure since the collapse of the Soviet Union, first as an opponent of Mr. Yeltsin and later as a security adviser to him. Mr. Rybkin participated in the peace talks that end the first war in Chechnya in 1996 and remains an advocate of efforts to end the second Chechen war, now in its fifth year.

 

As a candidate, he has criticized Mr. Putin, saying he was an authoritarian who is closely linked to the wealthy businessmen who wield disproportionate control of the country's economy, so long as they remain in the Kremlin's good graces. In an interview last month, Mr. Rybkin said he was concerned about the erosion of democratic freedoms in Russia and the continued economic hardship of ordinary Russians.

 

"Russia," he said then, "is turning a new and very shameful leaf."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/internat...print&position=

Odd that one of the most vocal opponents of the U.S has a major critic of the current President turn up, well, missing.

 

French officials apparently take bribes. Russians have opponents to Putin vanish. But Bush is the "bad guy" internationally.

 

Odd.

-=Mike

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

Mostly because some of these things aren't documented because they aren't "sensational" enough for the news. Argh.

 

I'm probably going to put money that that is one of the FEW, if not the ONLY, spot where you could find that article. And if it were in the papers, it'd be BURIED.

 

Agenda setting. God I love it. Works both ways.

[tommytomlin 0]

I don't get that last post at all.

 

How is not making a big deal out of the murder of two insignificant Russian politicians (who were probably murdered by their own party anyway, if you read the article) 'agenda setting'? If there was actual evidence of Putin's involvement, then there would be a story. But, there's not, so why SHOULD the news media in America be focusing on this story?

[Guest hunger4unger]

Bush just rigs his elections he doesn't have to go to the trouble of making his opponnents disapear.

[Guest Cerebus]

Bush just rigs his elections he doesn't have to go to the trouble of making his opponnents disapear.

Fantastic addition to the conversation. I'm still wondering when your posts will cross the line from purely idiotic to trolling.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Bush just rigs his elections he doesn't have to go to the trouble of making his opponnents disapear.

Get a clue unger...No one even accused Bush of a rigged election, they didn't like Florida's election machines. That's it. Gore even asked for the wrong type of votes to be checked for (under instead of over) and even with that, you've got a very well-respected Judge (Richard Posner, 9th circuit, U of Chicago) telling pretty much everyone it was a complete statistical tie, and with the decision making process given if the US Supreme Court hadn't over-ruled the florida supreme court, we probably would've had a Jewish acting president for a week while Congress tried to sort things out.

 

Don't believe it?

 

US SC allows the F SC decision to stand. F SC appoints the Gore delegates. The Florida Legis, pointing to Article 2 (state legislatures set election procedure) claim unconstitutionality and send the Bush delegation.

 

Electoral College is then faced with 2 slates of electors from 1 state. Both houses must vote separately to decide which slate to accept. The house votes for the bush and the senate on a tiebreaker from the presiding officer (Gore) votes for the Gore slate. Congrats, we now have no further way to resolve this issue and we have a constitutional crisis.

 

Jan 20th comes and guess what? Gore and Clinton have to leave office, so we need a new acting president until this mess is resolved. First in line is Dennis Hastert, but he'd hardly take it since he just won reelection and would have to resign as rep and speaker to do it. Next is Strom, and yeah, he won't do it. Madeline isn't US born. So the 4th guy in line is the Sec of Treas, a Jewish dood. I have nothing against em at all, but in the context of what was coming down the pipeline, this entire process might not have been for the best.

 

If you would like to talk about rigged elections, go read about 1960.

 

Until then, learn some damn history

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Bush just rigs his elections he doesn't have to go to the trouble of making his opponnents disapear.

Well it got a chuckle out of me...

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Odd that one of the most vocal opponents of the U.S has a major critic of the current President turn up, well, missing.

 

French officials apparently take bribes. Russians have opponents to Putin vanish. 

 

I get a kick out of this.

 

Hey Mike, where's YOUR tin foil hat?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Odd that one of the most vocal opponents of the U.S has a major critic of the current President turn up, well, missing.

 

French officials apparently take bribes. Russians have opponents to Putin vanish. 

 

I get a kick out of this.

 

Hey Mike, where's YOUR tin foil hat?

This is kind of silly to say with the other idiot roaming around in this thread.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Hey, a conspiracy theory is a conspiracy theory, whether it's from the left or the right.

[Firestarter 0]

This is on CNN's website now. Pretty well-documented for a conspiracy theory.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

They're saying that Putin's aides murdered him?

 

What evidence do they have?

[Firestarter 0]

No, just backing up the original article Mike posted - saying pretty much the same things, basically. I didn't see anything about Putin's aides murdering anyone in that either. Where did you see that?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I was referring to Mike's comment.

 

"Russians have opponents to Putin vanish."

 

It was an insinuation that they did something to him, etc. It was a conspiracy theory, and a vapidly baseless one at that.

 

And yeah, I did read the article on CNN. I'm not saying it's not a legit story, I'm just saying Mike's conspiracy theory around it is stupid.

Edited February 9, 2004 by Tyler McClelland

[Firestarter 0]

Oh. That's pretty circumstantial at this point, although it's clear that there are entrenched interests in a power struggle of some sort. Still, right now, I wouldn't be willing to say Putin is personally responsible for the disappearances.

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh. That's pretty circumstantial at this point, although it's clear that there are entrenched interests in a power struggle of some sort. Still, right now, I wouldn't be willing to say Putin is personally responsible for the disappearances.

I actually posted it simply to see how people like hunger4unger (the Bush conspiracy cabal) dealt with it.

 

Amazingly, he's infinitely more willing to believe conspiracy theories against Bush than against Russian politics, which if one studies Russian elections, that is more than mildly odd.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

and with the decision making process given if the US Supreme Court hadn't over-ruled the florida supreme court, we probably would've had a Jewish acting president for a week while Congress tried to sort things out.

....

So the 4th guy in line is the Sec of Treas, a Jewish dood. I have nothing against em at all

What is wrong with having a Jewish president? As a supporter of Joseph Lieberman, your attitude offends me. If you have "nothing against em" then why does it matter what religion he is? At least it wouldn't have been a "black dood" right?

[Zorin Industries 0]

Sure there all just godless Commies anyway

 

 

(sarcasm, unless you couldn't guess)

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

and with the decision making process given if the US Supreme Court hadn't over-ruled the florida supreme court, we probably would've had a Jewish acting president for a week while Congress tried to sort things out.

....

So the 4th guy in line is the Sec of Treas, a Jewish dood.  I have nothing against em at all

What is wrong with having a Jewish president? As a supporter of Joseph Lieberman, your attitude offends me. If you have "nothing against em" then why does it matter what religion he is? At least it wouldn't have been a "black dood" right?

I think he was talking about 9/11 stuff.

[Guest hunger4unger]

Oh. That's pretty circumstantial at this point, although it's clear that there are entrenched interests in a power struggle of some sort. Still, right now, I wouldn't be willing to say Putin is personally responsible for the disappearances.

I actually posted it simply to see how people like hunger4unger (the Bush conspiracy cabal) dealt with it.

 

Amazingly, he's infinitely more willing to believe conspiracy theories against Bush than against Russian politics, which if one studies Russian elections, that is more than mildly odd.

-=Mike

I have never once stated that I doubt the credibility of the story. Perhaps my remark regarding Monkey Man was a little flippant.

[Guest The Satanic Angel]

CNN News Article

 

"Yes, I was on holiday. That's it!"

 

Glad he's found, anyway.

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh. That's pretty circumstantial at this point, although it's clear that there are entrenched interests in a power struggle of some sort. Still, right now, I wouldn't be willing to say Putin is personally responsible for the disappearances.

I actually posted it simply to see how people like hunger4unger (the Bush conspiracy cabal) dealt with it.

 

Amazingly, he's infinitely more willing to believe conspiracy theories against Bush than against Russian politics, which if one studies Russian elections, that is more than mildly odd.

-=Mike

I have never once stated that I doubt the credibility of the story. Perhaps my remark regarding Monkey Man was a little flippant.

"Monkey man"?

 

Yeah, no Bush hatred here.

-=Mike

[treble 0]

I don't think he'd deny that.

 

And isn't posting something simply to get a reaction out of someone trolling?

 

BAN PLZ

[Stephen Joseph 0]

and with the decision making process given if the US Supreme Court hadn't over-ruled the florida supreme court, we probably would've had a Jewish acting president for a week while Congress tried to sort things out.

....

So the 4th guy in line is the Sec of Treas, a Jewish dood.  I have nothing against em at all

What is wrong with having a Jewish president? As a supporter of Joseph Lieberman, your attitude offends me. If you have "nothing against em" then why does it matter what religion he is? At least it wouldn't have been a "black dood" right?

I think he was talking about 9/11 stuff.

Thanks for seeing that man...Obviously the other guy didn't

 

Yes, I was referring to having 9/11 which was already going to happen happen with a pretext of now not just anti-americanism but identifiable anti-judiasm too.

 

Thank you for picking that up

[Guest hunger4unger]

I don't think he'd deny that.

 

And isn't posting something simply to get a reaction out of someone trolling?

 

BAN PLZ

Hear hear. I'm sure his right wing rhetoric is purely for effect.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I don't think he'd deny that.

 

And isn't posting something simply to get a reaction out of someone trolling?

 

BAN PLZ

I can't speak for Mike. But it seems the point of the thread is too show how ridiculous all these conspiracy theories are. I don't read were Mike believes these stories.

[Dr. Tom 0]

It's also a legitimate international news story, not the "useless material" the anti-trolling rule calls for.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't think he'd deny that.

 

And isn't posting something simply to get a reaction out of someone trolling?

 

BAN PLZ

You know what's really shocking?

 

My "trolling" actually has more substance than anything you've posted to date.

 

Funny how that works.

-=Mike

...Don't worry, I'm in no danger of being banned. Though I'm not shocked that leftists like hunger are seeking it.

[Guest JMA]

...Don't worry, I'm in no danger of being banned. Though I'm not shocked that leftists like hunger are seeking it.

Who are these all leftists (besides unger) who want you banned?

[Styles 0]

Thanks for seeing that man...Obviously the other guy didn't

 

Yes, I was referring to having 9/11 which was already going to happen happen with a pretext of now not just anti-americanism but identifiable anti-judiasm too.

 

Thank you for picking that up

Well, if it was going to happen anyway, I don't see what difference it makes. The terrorists ARE very anti-semetic so it would only make their hatred that much clearer. But I'm not trying to start an argument, let's just call it a misunderstanding.