UFC 47: It's On

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Figure that we might as well make a thread about this. Only three weeks, and the biggest potential money matchup in the UFC's history. Whether that potential is actualized is another matter altogether. Thought I might as well open up the discussion with a pick for every match and little snippet as to why I'd think they win. More in-depth answers coming later.

 

 

Chuck Liddell v. Tito Ortiz

 

Undisputed!? Undecided~! (Man I'm one PPV too late).

 

Tim Sylvia v. Andrei Arlovski

 

Steroids>>>No steroids

 

Robbie Lawler v. Nick Diaz

 

Upset pick; Diaz.

 

Genki Sudo v. Mike Brown

 

Sudo, Brown is dead and I never liked the Bengals anyway.

 

CABBAGE~! v. Mike KylE????

 

What kind of a name is that? CABBAGE~! on that reason alone.

 

Yves Edwards v. Hermes Franca

 

Edwards, he can stand up and I heard that thugjitsu is super dangerous.

 

Serious answers coming later, thought I'd just get the ball moving.

[Lei Tong 0]

Not that much of a money match-up. Probably won't match Randy/Tito money, muhc less Tito/Shamrock money.

 

Anyways:

 

Ortiz def. Liddell via JD: Tito peppers Chuck with a few good strikes early, but gets tagged and falls back on his G&P, keeping Chuck down long enough to get off some shots and keeping the standing action in the clinch to his advanatge en route to a Unanimous Decision.

 

Tim Sylvia def. Andrei Arlovski via KO, Rd.2: Arlovski frustrates Tim early with pestering front low kick and punches from various angles, but his ego and lack of solid defense is his downfall as Tim catches him midway through the 2nd round.

 

Nick Diaz def. Robbie Lawler via submission, Rd. 2: Lawler starts out strong, avoiding Diaz' submission attempts and G&P's early, but slows later as per his usual and eventually succumbs to a Diaz traingle.

 

Sudo def. Brown via submission, Rd.3: Brown's no joke, and his well rounded ground skills will give him an early lead over the lackadaisical Sudo, before Genki turns it up a notch and takes him out via rear naked choke.

 

Wesley Correira def. Mike Kyle via TKO, Rd.2: In a prevailing theme of the night, Kyle is aggressive early, but Cababge's chin lets him withstand the onslaught and flurry late for the win.

 

Hermes Franca def. Yves Edwards via JD: Hermes survives on his feet against Yves' overrated power and controls on the ground enroute to a Unanimous Decision.

[razazteca 0]

Has Yves Edwards improved his submission or ground skills since his appearence in UFC 43?

[Styles 0]

Ah, huge main event and an undercard of people I don't know...must be UFC! But I've enjoyed all the UFC shows I've seen, so I'll definitely see this one...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

This is actually one of their more star-studded shows. Lawler, Edwards, Sudo, Cabbage in the undercard and Sylvia/Arlovski and Tito/Chuck in the main event; I'm hyped.

 

Paragon, could you just do a regular line up for the first post as a reference point w/o comments? It's just easier.

[Guest bort]

for those of you in Canada, UFC airs on TSN tommorrow at midnight

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I was just about to post that as its own thread, but I guess this will do

 

It's a 2 hour block as well, which have been really fun to watch.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

1. Katsuhisa Fujii vs. Masutatsu Yano

2 Kenichi Yamamoto vs. Daiju Takase

3 Eugene Jackson vs. Keiichiro Yamamiya

4 Joe Slick vs. Jason Delucia

5 Kenichi Yamamoto vs. Katsuhisa Fujii

6 Pedro Rizzo vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka

7 Kevin Randleman vs. Pete Williams

 

I believe it's from UFC 23: Ultimate Japan 2.

[Lei Tong 0]

SHIT! The one card I've wanted to see, if only because of all the things I've heard about Yamamoto's sweet kneebar on Fuji.

 

Anybody feel like recording it and sending me a copy?

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm recording it, if that match is shown I'll try and send you it.

[Guest Choken One]

It's On?

 

That's kind of a lame Subtitle..

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, it's not only lame; it's horrible.

 

But I finished watching UFC 40 where Chuck Liddell destroyed Babalu and where Tito Ortiz raped Shamrock; Chuck REALLY wanted that belt and Tito was unwilling to give it to him. I am *HYPED* for this match now.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Just thought I'd bump this up. Did anyone else see the Iceman/Badboy documentary on Directv? That shit was dope.

 

Mike Kyle has a weak chin but has enormous power. Cabbage has lots of power as well and can take a shot from anybody. I give the advantage to Cabbage, knockout in either the latter parts of the first or beginning of the second.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

WESTMINSTER, Calif. -- Call it Mixed Martial Arts Darwinism. Tito Ortiz says he's been transformed by it while Chuck Liddell hasn't. And, said the former UFC light heavyweight champ to a small contingent of reporters inside the Westminster Boxing Club on Thursday, it's the reason he will win and Liddell won't when they face off April 2 at the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas.

 

"He's the same fighter he was two years ago," Ortiz says, handicapping Liddell -- his former friend and sparring partner who hounded the ex-champion into finally accepting a fight. "He's the same fighter he was a year ago. He's the same fighter he was last fight. He hasn't changed. He throws looping punches, overhand rights that people can see a mile away, [and] hooks you see a mile away. If he throws the same stuff at me, it's all junk man. I'm going to throw it in the trash.

 

"Chuck Liddell thinks I'm the fighter that used to spar with him two-and-a-half-years ago. He's in a world of trouble because I ain't the fighter I was two years ago. I've evolved hugely in the last two years." Time in the gym with Colin Oyama, Don House, Jessie Reid, Jerry Moreno, Fabiano Iha, John Lewis, Ricco Rodriguez and Dean Lister, among others, says Ortiz, is both the proof and blueprint of this progression.

 

 

Liddell, counters Ortiz, remains largely unchanged from the fighter he formed Team Punishment with long before there were any demands of a fight.

 

"He's not willing to expose himself to different people to learn from other people," Ortiz says, insinuating Liddell's fierce loyalty to his long-time trainer John Hackleman has caught up with him.

 

"I don't know who [Liddell's] training with or sparring with up [in San Luis Obispo]; I know he can't have many people he's sparring or training with. But I try to bring some of the best guys to come down here and train with me. You're only as good as your training partners, they say."

 

 

 

Ortiz, who is currently 218 pounds but said he would have little problem making weight, answered questions for just over half an hour in the sparse Orange County gym before participating in a relatively light sparring session with former WBA Junior Middleweight champion John David Jackson -- a perfect example, insists Ortiz, why he's prepared to win two weeks from today.

 

For two years, an Ortiz-Liddell contest wetted the collective-appetite of fight fans. The story is well known by now. Ortiz says there was a pact between friends. Liddell, however, has continually scoffed at that.

 

When asked why Liddell doesn't remember the arrangement between sparring partners, Ortiz answers, "Either he's a little punch drunk, he's been punched one too many times, or he just forgets about things. But I have a really good memory and I don't forget about things. I don't get hit as much as him, so I think what I remember is pretty much true. But, hey, this fight is happening now so all that stuff doesn't really mean shit anymore."

 

 

 

But this incarnation is much different than the one envisioned by supporters on both sides. Instead of a champion facing a long-time number-one contender, Ortiz, still coming to grips after losing his belt to Randy Couture, now faces Liddell on equal footing.

 

Ironically, this new set of circumstances offers a greater sense of urgency for the fighters, despite apathy from those of us tired of the drawn-out saga. "I may not have the title, but in my mind this is still going to be a huge fight," Ortiz says.

 

And he's right, but for reasons different than he may be willing to admit.

 

 

 

For the winner, spoils should include a title fight and immediate relevance in the UFC's deepest division. On the other hand, April 2's loser will be defeated in consecutive bouts, virtually eliminated from title contention for the foreseeable future, needing at least two quality wins to be considered a viable contender again.

 

With all that, it's hard to believe that it was just last year at this time that Ortiz was riding high from his drubbing of Ken Shamrock and Liddell was considered unbeatable. But time and the man Father Time could not stop, exposed both men.

 

Ortiz' slippery slope began even before he forced a situation where Liddell fought Couture for an 'interim' belt. Ridiculed throughout MMA for choices that seemed to make little sense, continual criticisms took their toll on Ortiz, a fighter who has made a point to maintain close relationships with his fans.

 

 

 

"It gets to you, yeah," he admits. "But it's something you gotta shake off, man. … You're gonna get haters that hate you and lovers that love you. It don't matter. As long as they're talking about you, that's all that matters. And more than anything, I think I have to expose myself during this fight as I stand up with him."

 

Clearly, Ortiz isn't implying he'll shine a light on any glaring weakness. Rather, he is intent on brandishing boxing skills that he professes to have so diligently worked for.

 

We've heard this before, though. In the weeks leading up to the Couture bout, Ortiz repeatedly promised a stand-up war. Afterwards he swore a herniated disk and a wonderfully-executed game plan on behalf of his challenger prevented any brawling on the feet.

 

 

 

Fully healed and, by most accounts, the better wrestler this time around, there is little preventing Ortiz from standing in the middle of the ring and delivering ill-intentioned punches -- except for Liddell, of course.

 

Why Ortiz would be compelled to trade punches with a known knockout artist is unclear, though the months of criticism may have stung him to the point of influencing a game plan, which, in the end, could prove ill-fated.

 

"The fans want to see something exciting," he contends. "It's all about the fans. Like I say, I'm going in there to win. I've got a game plan. Standing up is part of the game plan."

 

"In my mind, yeah, I know I can," Ortiz says with the tone of a man giving himself a pep talk. "There isn't a belief. I know I can. There ain't a problem at all with it."

 

It is an area during their sparring days that wasn't Ortiz' strong suit. But evolution, time and hard work, he promises, will be the difference.

 

"I already feel ready and it's a week-and-a-half away. … He's going to have a long night."

 

 

http://www.maxfighting.com/Gross/gross_031904.asp

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I just finished downloading the Iceman/BadBoy thing and I'll give it a look later on today.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, it was good. I'm not really more/less hyped for the fight knowing that Tito Ortiz is a Bone Disease, but it provided a little more clearity on the situation. It was, however, transparent as fuck. Both guys coming up from a hard-knock life, single parents, lots of difficulties; Tito looked to the streets while Chuck stayed it straight. UFC getting over the history of the sport which may have been correct, but still felt soooooo McMahonion that I wanted to gag. You heard all the classics from "what if you had..." to "damn those boxing guys". Do I have to go through this everytime Zuffa produces something?

 

Charlie's (Chuck, but we call him Charlie from now on ) children beating on him and his daughter with the thumb choke and saying "I'm really good at the choke" just had me rolling. Titos kid, however, takes the cake. That dance was fucking unbeatable. Put that kid in the Octagon.

 

Seeing the other fighters in there (Sylvia, Couture, Hughes, Lindland... jeez, do they love the Miletich guys or what?) was pretty fun. They all picked Chuck while a lot of the fans picked Tito (cept for Ricco, but does his opinion count anymore ). The fighters predicted Couture over Tito so...

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

The fact Tito won't stop talking shit about Chuck's stand up technique in every interview recently really makes me hope he actually try's backing up this BS that he is willing to stand with Chuck.

 

Tito's stand up game is noway near Randy's or Jackson's who used theirs as a base to beat Chuck.

 

 

 

I don't even want to think of a Tito ground and pound display for the whole fight at this point. Although it might happen........please god don't let it happen.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Main Card along with tha odds.

 

UFC 47 April 2nd - Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas - MMAWeekly.com

 

Prelim Matches

 

Wade Shipp vs Johnathan Wiezorek

 

Tiki vs Chris Lytle

 

Genki Sudo vs Mike Brown

 

Main Card

 

 

Tito Ortiz vs Chuck Liddell

 

Tim Sylvia vs Andrei Arlovski

 

Yves Edwards vs Hermes Franca

 

Nick Diaz vs Robbie Lawler

 

Mike Kyle vs Cabbage

 

UFC ODDS

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Heavyweight Fight

Tim Sylvia -170

Andrei Arlovski +130

 

Sylvia vs Arlovski - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-140)

Round Prop u2(even)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47- Light Heavyweight Fight

Tito Ortiz -185

Chuck Liddell +145

 

Ortiz vs Liddell - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o3(-110)

Round Prop u3(-130)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Heavyweight Fight

Johnathan Wiezorek -200

Wade Shipp +160

 

Wiezorek vs Wade Shipp - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-110)

Round Prop u2(-130)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Welterweight Fight

Chris Lytle -325

Tiki Ghosen +250

 

Lytle vs Ghosen - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-165)

Round Prop u2+(125)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Lightweight Fight

Genki Sudo -325

Mike Brown +250

 

Sudo vs Brown - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-110)

Round Prop u2(-130)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Lightweight Fight

Hermes Franca -140

Yves Edwards +100

 

Franca vs Edwards - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-185)

Round Prop u2+(145)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Welterweight Fight

Robbie Lawler -260

Nick Diaz +200

 

Lawler vs Diaz - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o2(-200)

Round Prop u2+(160)

 

Ultimate Fighting Championship 47 - Heavyweight Fight

Wes 'Cabbage' Correira -500

Mike Kyle +300

 

Correira vs Kyle - UFC 47 - Round Prop

Round Prop o1(-220)

Round Prop u1+(170

[Lei Tong 0]

Diaz & Tiki might be worth some money at those odds, although Tiki is pretty "iffy:" he's 0-3 in the Octagon, yet usually shows promise before losing and is also undefeated outside of the UFC against some good competition, including Ronald "Machine Gun" Jhun.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

From mmaweekly.com

 

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson was the featured guest this week on MMAWeekly SoundOff Radio. He joined the show from Huntington Beach, Califonia where he is training with Tito Ortiz. Quinton discussed his hand injury, Tito Ortiz vs. Chuck Liddell, and of course, Wanderlei Silva.

 

Jackson broke his hand on New Years Eve in Japan while fighting Ikuhisa Minowa. The hand has healed up "pretty good," and he is back to training. He isn't hitting the pads yet but has been training Jiu-Jitsu. "Rampage" usually walks around at about 215-220 pounds but had gotten up to 232 not too long ago. Quinton does not lift weights. He said he would have to diet before he can lift in order to stay fighting at 205.

 

During his time off of fighting, letting his hand heal, Jackson shot a movie in Japan where he plays a fighter that ends up fighting Sakuraba in the movie. In the film version of the fight, Sakuraba repeats his real life victory over Jackson by submitting him via rear naked choke.

 

Quinton gave his take on the highly anticipated UFC 47 main event between Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell. Jackson has broken away from the label of Team Punishment but continues to maintain a close relationship with Tito and still trains with him. He has also been in the ring with Chuck, beating him in the semifinals of the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix.

 

To no surprise, Jackson is going with training partner Tito Ortiz to take home the victory. He simply considers Ortiz to have "more all around skills." He said, "Here's the deal, they both lost to Randy...This fight can make or break both of them." He gives Tito the advantage in Jiu-Jitsu and pointed out that "every fight goes to the ground a little bit." In fact, Jackson said Ortiz submitted him with a triangle choke last night. Quintion gives Chuck the advantage in striking but but questioned, "Tito's stand up isn't as good as Chuck's but how good is Chuck's?" Having said that, he added, "Chuck is no slouch."

 

When will we see a rematch between Jackson and Wanderlei Silva? It is a good question but it didn't get answered. Quinton wants to let the strength in his hand to get back to normal and sharpen up some skills before a rematch happens. In their last fight, Jackson said he made a mistake and although he didn't go out, he was "dazed as a motherf@%er." Rampage said he wasn't 100% against Liddell and was hurt by Chuck, in particular, with a body shot at the end of the first round. He then had to fight Silva later in the same night. In the fight with Wanderlei, Jackson said to watch Silva's cornerman when he has Silva on the ground. The corner did "some weird shit," said Jackson. He went on to say, "I ain't never seen a cornerman tell the ref what to do before in my life."

 

So, when will we see Quinton fight again? Most likely in June. He would also like to avenge every loss on his record, including Sakuraba and Silva. To hear some of Rampage's classic quotes in this interview, such as, him getting drunk on his 9th birthday or him recall his first "ass kicking," get ourself a Premium Membership.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

In some bigger news... (courtesy Da Meltz)

 

Friday night's UFC heavyweight championship match between Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovsky is in jeopardy today because the test Sylvia took a few weeks ago showed trace amounts of steroids.

 

Sylvia has claimed the steroid Stanozol that showed up in his test from a few weeks ago was from his usage that were caught after his 9/26 test, that he said was from more than nine months ago. Sylvia was given the opportunity to take another test and the results are expected to come tomorrow. If there are still traces of steroids in his system, he would not be allowed to fight. UFC does have a back-up plan, although it is being kept quiet and will be announced tomorrow if Sylvia is not allowed to fight.

 

RRR mentioned the gambling sites yanking the fight. Wonder if they knew about this early or what. Anyways, hope they have a helluva backup plan (even though this isn't the signature fight it is still the scheduled 5 rounder).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

From Dur Meltz

 

If Tim Sylvia fails his second steroid test, with the results expected tomorrow morning, the back-up plan will be Andrei Arlovsky vs. Wes Cabbage Correira as the heavyweight championship match on Friday night in Las Vegas.

 

UFC contacted Wes Sims and gave him the word to be a possible sub for Correira in Correira's scheduled match with Mike Kyle. Sims was contacted one week ago, which is probably when UFC first received word of Sylvia's failed test.

 

Sylvia failed for Stanozol (Winstrol), which was the same steroid he tested positive for after beating Gan McGee in a heavyweight title defense on 9/26. He was then suspended by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, fined $7,500, and UFC followed by stripping him of his heavyweight championship.

 

Sylvia claims it was trace amounts and he has not used Stanozol for nine months. The test came back with a low enough concentration of Stanozol that it implied the usage was not recent. However, part of the terms of his getting his license back after suspension by the Nevada State Athletic Commission is that he needs a clean test, which this turned out not to be.

 

Whew, thank god I'm not done the Tap Out Preview.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

In some bigger news... (courtesy Da Meltz)

 

Friday night's UFC heavyweight championship match between Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovsky is in jeopardy today because the test Sylvia took a few weeks ago showed trace amounts of steroids.

 

Sylvia has claimed the steroid Stanozol that showed up in his test from a few weeks ago was from his usage that were caught after his 9/26 test, that he said was from more than nine months ago. Sylvia was given the opportunity to take another test and the results are expected to come tomorrow. If there are still traces of steroids in his system, he would not be allowed to fight. UFC does have a back-up plan, although it is being kept quiet and will be announced tomorrow if Sylvia is not allowed to fight.

 

RRR mentioned the gambling sites yanking the fight. Wonder if they knew about this early or what. Anyways, hope they have a helluva backup plan (even though this isn't the signature fight it is still the scheduled 5 rounder).

I KNEW ABOUT THAT BEE-YATCH~!

 

Ahem, anyways, I have to say that I am not sure he did it again. He's not that stupid, odds are it's just traces from the first time he took it. Of course, if it's still in his system then they have no choice but to wait like four months before it will be gone.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Arlovski v. Cabbage now (Non-title)

 

It's official now. I wonder if it really is traces, or if he's just an idiot.

[Styles 0]

That's a shame, I was looking forward to seeing Sylvia fight again!

Now its up between Adrei whatshisname and a guy named "Cabbage". yey. At least WES SIMMS~! (hopefully!) is on the card now. God, I love that dude.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Arlovski/Cabbage is a more competitive fight and might turn out to be a brutal (in a good way~!) match.

[Styles 0]

Arlovski/Cabbage is a more competitive fight and might turn out to be a brutal (in a good way~!) match.

Considering I'm not familiar with either (well besides Arlosvki's forgettable UFC 44 fight againt...I dont even remember, see?) I'll just have to take your word for it oh MMA wise one!

Um, and the show's tommorow and no big ass show preview from you yet? tsk tsk.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Arlovski can bang and Cabbage can take a punch.... you do the math

 

I'd look like a giant idiot if I had the preview up and one of the main matches changed, now wouldn't I?

 

Instead, I'm just lazy

 

The hardest part for me is the introduction; you have to set the feel and pace along with creating interest. You have to find the right words and sometimes that takes a while. I'm done the hardest part - the easy part is the analysis and predictions; that's more like the aforementioned math than anything

[the pinjockey 0]

I thought this was an excellent show.

 

Liddell/Ortiz - Started slow, but the crowd was really alive during that stretch so it didn't seem that bad. Once Chuck got the feel it was awesome.

 

Cabbage/Arlovski - Cabbage is a fucking freak. Stand up war. I don't agree with Rogan stating it was a premature stoppage. You figure if someone like Cabbage goes down from a punch there is some damage and he was in a defenseless position. Cabbage didn't even dispute it.

 

Diaz/Lawler - Holy fuck. Fight of the night. Diaz was fucking great. Until his post fight interview. Didn't understand a damn word he said.

 

Edwards/Franca - Eh. The only fight that didn't do anything for me. Franca didn't seem to do anything other than hold once they got to the ground. Flashes during the stretch where he went for a leg lock, but nothing arose from it. And the only other action from him was forced by Edwards' attempted kimura. There were some funny spots during the fight, but I was hoping for a good ground fight in this match after it had been all stand up all the time in the prior fights.

 

Sudo/Brown - This was a really nice change of pace after all of the stand up. Sweet submission from Sudo. I don't get why people don't show up for the prelim fights though. Why would you pay big money, then only go for 5/8ths of the event?

 

Tiki/Lytle - What the fuck was with Lytle throwing a punch, then backing up, lather rinse repeat. He had him on the ropes at times, yet just kept backing up. The submission was great, however, thus making it a decent match in combination with some solid standup.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Overall, really like the show. Some good KO's, with the only thing lacking being any real good groundwork.

 

Sudo/Brown - Sudo never fails to be entertaining and I think Brown actually gave him more than he was expecting. Brown showed some decent strength and just needs to get some more experience.

 

Tiki/Lytle - Meh, nothing bad to say. Decent fight overall but not really any highpoints either.

 

Sims/Kyle - Fuck, how bout those bite marks. And you could tell that Kyle was guilty by turning the blame towards Sims. Also what's the whole "I'm wearing a mouthguard theory?" The big actual teeth marks were on the bottom. The mouthguard is on the top, the bottom teeth are exposed, and you can still bite with a mouthguard. Too bad Sims gassed, cause I would have seriously liked to see Sims kick his ass afterthat.

 

Diaz/Lawler - Fuck. I like Robbie and that Diaz kid was a bit too cocky for me. Seemed like Lawler was thrown off by a combination of a) Diaz's reach b) Diaz being a lefty and c) the fact that Diaz actually stood and traded punches with him. Feed Diaz to Matt Hughes and see how he does. Excellent fight though.

 

Cabbage/Arlovski - No complaints here. Cabbage hung in as much as he could and I agree that that time was the proper moment to stop the fight. I didn't see Cabbage complaining. You figured Arlovski was going to win anyway going in but still entertaining. I'm a little surprised that Cabbage didn't try to throw a few knees as he had the opportunity to clinch Arlovski up against the cage a few times and didn't take it.

 

Edwards/Franca - Close fight. Meltz disagreed with the decision and that's debatable. In Pride, the fight probably would have to go to Franca but for UFC I'd give it to Edwards (by a very slim margin). Edwards was fairly impressive with his ability to avoid subs.

 

Ortiz/Liddell - I figured Liddell would win by decsion as I didn't think Tito could keep Chuck down, if he was able to take him down. It was a moot point as Tito tried to stand in there anyways. Personally, I thought Tito went down a bit easy for him, considering some of the other blows he's shown that he can take.

 

Now, the big question surrounding this fight (which about half the people watching this fight with me were thinking after)...

 

Was this fight on the level?

 

Personally, I think it was. However, I can't say 100% in my opinion that it was. The fact that the show was in Vegas, big money fight. Neither guy really took any damage. Liddell needed the win (alot moreso that Tito IMO). Tito seemed to go down fairly easy. All of these things are some potential question marks.

 

Now don't jump back at many, no fucking way was it fixed, you're an idiot, blah blah blah, but I would like to hear some people's honest opinion on this. Is it even somewhat debatable that this was fixed?